chris198 0 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I updated to 1.04 and I cannot see the Eastbound-Nat´s (greyed out in the menu) ! latest NG1309 cycle installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickM 49 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Same here... :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESzczesniak 25 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I think this is related to the window of validity for the tracks. If you look at the published tracks here (https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/common/nat.html), you will see the eastbound tracks window is September 3 from 0100Z to 0800Z. Seeing as it's September 2 around 1300Z, we are not technically in that window. Even with 1.03, there were some oddities with tracks, but I was getting the grayed out eastbound in the morning (in USA, outside window) and in the evening once entering the window I got them to display. I still wish the program would load these outside their window. They are published, so we know what they will be and it would be nice to plan these for a flight later today entering the tracks during the window of operation. I hope we will see this done eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickM 49 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 If you load the tracks from the *.ots file then it will work. But not in the online mode! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESzczesniak 25 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 If you load the tracks from the *.ots file then it will work. But not in the online mode! Is there a way to get current .ots files? I only see old ones up through about 22Aug13. I'd love to hear from the official team if the issue with the eastbound tracks being grayed out is in fact due to the validity window and if there is any intent to fix this if so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris198 0 Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 That´s the problem that you cannot dl these online nor save Nat´s for the next day ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcasclimb 0 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I personally dont mind that it blocks out tracks that are no longer valid, i think if we are chasing realism then this should be a realistic behavior, one of the reasons why i like this is because when westbound tracks are valid, they use westbound levels AND eastbound levels as well along the tracks, so going westbound you are allowed to use ODD and EVEN levels at the same time to squeeze in more traffic, it makes it more interesting and challenging to me because then you have to plan AROUND the tracks while trying to remain within ETOPS rule because you cant use eastbound levels.anyway. What you can do, if you absolutely want to use tracks that are no longer valid, then get them online while they are valid (like from https://www.notams.faa.gov/dinsQueryWeb/) copy them and save them in a text file or document, then just use the auto feature build a route with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESzczesniak 25 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I personally dont mind that it blocks out tracks that are no longer valid, i think if we are chasing realism then this should be a realistic behavior, one of the reasons why i like this is because when westbound tracks are valid, they use westbound levels AND eastbound levels as well along the tracks, so going westbound you are allowed to use ODD and EVEN levels at the same time to squeeze in more traffic, it makes it more interesting and challenging to me because then you have to plan AROUND the tracks while trying to remain within ETOPS rule because you cant use eastbound levels.anyway. What you can do, if you absolutely want to use tracks that are no longer valid, then get them online while they are valid (like from https://www.notams.faa.gov/dinsQueryWeb/) copy them and save them in a text file or document, then just use the auto feature build a route with them. That's not quite the issue at hand. It is not the fact that we want to use tracks that are no longer valid, but that we want to use tracks that will be valid. An oceanic flight takes a lot of planning time, and often flight time before reaching the NATs. If I for example want to fly KORD to EGLL, I have about 3 hours of flight time to the NAT entry, 30-60 minutes of preflight, and 30-60 minutes of planning. This puts me between 4 and 5 hours before entering the NATs, which means my planning could start at 2000Z the day before, while entering at 0100Z when they open. What I'd like at least is to be able to plan off the future NAT tracks, which are all published at the same time, for flights entering during the valid window. This way I could plan in advance. In fact, with only a 7 hour window of validity, if I wait until the tracks open to start planning, I could barely be making it before they close depending on where I am flying from (and how much delay I have between flying and planning due to life). Additionally, the NATs files don't appear to be stored in a simple .txt that many of the other files involved. The files are in .ots and I am not able to determine any logic in creating these on our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcasclimb 0 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 oh, sorry i misunderstood, i see what the problem is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickM 49 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Ahh, I didn't know that the NATS are time limited! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESzczesniak 25 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Ahh, I didn't know that the NATS are time limited! Edit: accidental reply in wrong thread, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matchball 5 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 That's not quite the issue at hand. It is not the fact that we want to use tracks that are no longer valid, but that we want to use tracks that will be valid. An oceanic flight takes a lot of planning time, and often flight time before reaching the NATs. If I for example want to fly KORD to EGLL, I have about 3 hours of flight time to the NAT entry, 30-60 minutes of preflight, and 30-60 minutes of planning. This puts me between 4 and 5 hours before entering the NATs, which means my planning could start at 2000Z the day before, while entering at 0100Z when they open. What I'd like at least is to be able to plan off the future NAT tracks, which are all published at the same time, for flights entering during the valid window. This way I could plan in advance. In fact, with only a 7 hour window of validity, if I wait until the tracks open to start planning, I could barely be making it before they close depending on where I am flying from (and how much delay I have between flying and planning due to life). Additionally, the NATs files don't appear to be stored in a simple .txt that many of the other files involved. The files are in .ots and I am not able to determine any logic in creating these on our own. I had a problem that I had planned a NAT and when I entered it (about 4h later) the ATC told me that it was outdated. Is there any way of gettin the pfpx calculate the correct avauvable NATs for the time entering the Oceanic airspace as planned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha17 0 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Waiting still for the Eastbound NAT's in PFPX. In real the Eastbound NAT's are published since 90 minutes. regards Sascha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESzczesniak 25 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Waiting still for the Eastbound NAT's in PFPX. In real the Eastbound NAT's are published since 90 minutes. regards Sascha NAT V, W, Y, X and Z are published, but according to the track message (https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/common/nat.html), they are valid 3Sep13 0100-0800Z. As I type this, it is just before 2Sep13 2000Z. This is what I am hoping that they will fix. The tracks have been published and we should be able to plan off of them for flights entering the tracks between 0100-0800Z. However, as the program has been functioning, we have another 5 hours until they will show up and be usable for planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha17 0 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Thats not fully correct. OFP will be created a few hours before departure. So as an example: Lufthansa DLH401 from KJFK to EDDF departure 1950 UTC and the flight usually going via a NAT Track and the flight OFP is typically available minimum 2 hours before STD departure (1850 UTC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick1246 353 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I have eastbound NATS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha17 0 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 No eastbound Tracks in PFPX for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha117 51 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 None here either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box152 0 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 No Eastbound tracks still here. Not being able to NAT plan in advance of them being active must either be a bug or a fundamental oversight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESzczesniak 25 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Thats not fully correct. OFP will be created a few hours before departure. So as an example: Lufthansa DLH401 from KJFK to EDDF departure 1950 UTC and the flight usually going via a NAT Track and the flight OFP is typically available minimum 2 hours before STD departure (1850 UTC). That's been my point all along with this. We should be able to make OFP's before the NAT's become active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha17 0 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 That's been my point all along with this. We should be able to make OFP's before the NAT's become active. You're right. Didn't read your post correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESzczesniak 25 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Ok, it's a bit odd. I started getting NATs eastbound around 2300-2330 (could have been earlier, hadn't checked), which is 1.5-2 hours before they became active. I'm really not sure what's going on here. Anyway we could get some input from FlightSimSoft? Sure would like to know if this is an intended feature, a bug, or whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcasclimb 0 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 I am now getting eastbound NATS, a couple hours ago it was there also but one of the PACOTS was greyed out like the eastbound NAT was. So now everything is available and my weather is updating and current. Must be a server issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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