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Checklist is not a to-do list!!!


Domino

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Checklist is not a do list.

Procedures are normally performed silently from the copilot.

After the procedure the copilot reads the checklist items.

The checklist is compressed, only a few "main" items are read not the whole procedure.

Example: AFTER START Checklist

ANTI ICE.......................ENGINE ANTI ICE OFF or ON (AS RQRD)

ECAM STATUS.............CHECKED

PITCH TRIM..................____SET

RUDDER TRIM..............ZERO

Michael

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Hi Michael,

checklists as well as procedures differ from airline to airline and we tried to combine the most common ones. So please where did you get your knowledge from i. e. which checklist you are using or mentioning in your email. Can you provide us with a copy so that we can have a look into it?

Hanse

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Hi Michael,

checklists as well as procedures differ from airline to airline and we tried to combine the most common ones. So please where did you get your knowledge from i. e. which checklist you are using or mentioning in your email. Can you provide us with a copy so that we can have a look into it?

Hanse

Hi Hanse

checklists as well as procedures differ from airline to airline and we tried to combine the most common ones.

Please do not confuse a procedure with a checklist.

Procedures are performed from memory and follow a scan sequence or a flow pattern.

So please where did you get your knowledge from

SOP,FCOM, FCTM, QRH, experience

Can you provide us with a copy so that we can have a look into it?

See attachment.

MichaelA318-321_Normal_Checklist.pdf

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I also found this one......but I am no pilot so I cannot tell what the callout is for procedures and checklists between different airline companies.

Roy

I also found this one......but I am no pilot so I cannot tell what the callout is for procedures and checklists between different airline companies

Please do not confuse a procedure with a checklist.

Procedures are performed from memory and follow a scan sequence or a flow pattern.

In the attachment you will find the normal procedures.

A318-321_Normal_Procedures.pdf

Michael

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Hi Michael,

thank you for the document. Do I get it right: You are argueing that certain actions the copilot is doing are not "announced" but just silently done...... But why you have a problem with that?

So everybody knows what currently is done and if there is a problem and which one. If the copilot is set to OFF and you manually do the settings: If you forgot a certain setting or did it wrong - how do you know which one? The way we did it the action to be done is constantly repeated until the problem is solved.

Additionally we had 2 Airbus pilots (KLM and Lufthansa) testing the AXE software as well as the checklist- and copilot functionality and nobody argued against how we solved the problem. Maybe this is also handled in different ways by various airlines.

Hanse

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I also found this one......but I am no pilot so I cannot tell what the callout is for procedures and checklists between different airline companies

Please do not confuse a procedure with a checklist.

Procedures are performed from memory and follow a scan sequence or a flow pattern.

In the attachment you will find the normal procedures.

A318-321_Normal_Procedures.pdf

Michael

I have been flying in flight simulators for almost 30 years so definitely not confused between a checklist and a procedure. Besides, the two are clearly documented as seperate documents in the airbus x extended document folder.

The issue is that no matter how the developers handle this, there will always be people questioning either why there are announcements made of the copilot actions..... and then you would get the reverse where people say why don't we get announcements of what the copilot is doing. As Hanse mentioned, if there is a problem or something not done right you would need the announcement to know where the problem was...... or the checklist / procedures would probably not complete.

If you do not want to hear the announcements perhaps the solution to this is to replace the wav files used by the copilot and the responses.

For example, if you do not want to hear the copilot say "Batteries", you replace the wav file ASC_PnF_Battery.wav with a silent wav file. same as the pilots response to batteries when he says "Both On" you can replace ASC_PF_BothOn.wav with a silent wav file.

The developers can say if this works or not but I think this would be at least one solution to whether the announcements are made or not.

Roy

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Hello.

In my opinion, the PNF could perform part of the procedures while the PF is doing another part. After both ended their procedures the PF (we the user) could press 1. The checklist will be read has is today, but the computer will correct the items we forgot.

Also, i thing that the flaps deployment could be done by demand with a confirming message from the PNF. Something like.

We press a key for example 1 the th PF command says "Flaps One".

The PNF says "Speed Check". If the speed is below VFE, the PNF say "Flaps One". If not, the pilot says "Speed is above VFE".

Regards,

Galaio

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

If you do not want to hear the announcements perhaps the solution to this is to replace the wav files used by the copilot and the responses. For example, if you do not want to hear the copilot say "Batteries", you replace the wav file ASC_PnF_Battery.wav with a silent wav file. same as the pilots response to batteries when he says "Both On" you can replace ASC_PF_BothOn.wav with a silent wav file.

Roy

Hi Roy,

thanks for your opinion and the solution you described above is exactly what I would have suggested too. So if a user does not like a call just replace the respective sound-file with a "silent" one.......

Hanse

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Hello.

In my opinion, the PNF could perform part of the procedures while the PF is doing another part. After both ended their procedures the PF (we the user) could press 1. The checklist will be read has is today, but the computer will correct the items we forgot.

Also, i thing that the flaps deployment could be done by demand with a confirming message from the PNF. Something like.

We press a key for example 1 the th PF command says "Flaps One".

The PNF says "Speed Check". If the speed is below VFE, the PNF say "Flaps One". If not, the pilot says "Speed is above VFE".

Regards,

Galaio

Hi Galaio,

of course there are a lot of possibilities how a computerized checklist can be handled. But we decided and like it to do it the way we implemented it. Based on the response (or better say we nearly got no such change requests) it means that the majority of the user agree to our way we set it up. So will will not change anything in this respect because it would mean a major change and we like to use our spare time to solve real problems.....

Hanse

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Hi Galaio,

of course there are a lot of possibilities how a computerized checklist can be handled. But we decided and like it to do it the way we implemented it. Based on the response (or better say we nearly got no such change requests) it means that the majority of the user agree to our way we set it up. So will will not change anything in this respect because it would mean a major change and we like to use our spare time to solve real problems.....

Hanse

Hello Hanse

I do not know your test pilots, however let them read the Flight Operating Briefing Note from Airbus.

This is not only for one airline valid.

Attached you will find an excerpt of the Flight Operation Briefing Note.

FOBN_SOP.pdf

"Normal checklists are not read-and-do lists and should be accomplished after

performing the flow of actions defined in the standard operating procedures (SOPs)

I believe the message is clear or?

Michael

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Hello Hanse

I do not know your test pilots, however let them read the Flight Operating Briefing Note from Airbus.

This is not only for one airline valid.

Attached you will find an excerpt of the Flight Operation Briefing Note.

FOBN_SOP.pdf

"Normal checklists are not read-and-do lists and should be accomplished after

performing the flow of actions defined in the standard operating procedures (SOPs)

I believe the message is clear or?

Michael

The Design of the checklist is meant to be the EASY ON button to help people learn what button to press etc, NOT Airline Procedures or whatsoever. If you want a realistic crew simulation, I would advice you to wait for FS2Crew.

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The Design of the checklist is meant to be the EASY ON button to help people learn what button to press etc, NOT Airline Procedures or whatsoever. If you want a realistic crew simulation, I would advice you to wait for FS2Crew.

Thanks for your confirmation Joshua, as you can see on the feedbacks, many flight sim colleagues believe that this is done in the real world also.

Rjord, 30 years is a long time... ...respect, [You live and learn**].

Hanse, next time please do not discuss things when you have not available background knowledge, it would save your and my time.

By the way, FS2Crew is also not realistic.

Best regards.

Michael

**Remark: I also apply this rule.

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Hanse, next time please do not discuss things when you have not available background knowledge, it would save your and my time.

By the way, FS2Crew is also not realistic.

That's toeing across the line right there, I'm going to close this thread.

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Hanse, next time please do not discuss things when you have not available background knowledge, it would save your and my time.

Before this thread is closed, I will like to say that this is rude and unnecessary. The person who created the whole tutorial, handled manual translation is Hanse. Hes definitely more than qualified to answer, disliking his answer just because it doesnt suit your opinion is rude.

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