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Mathijs Kok

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2 hours ago, John Kunde said:

But if they think my german post here above was impolite or ruder or in any way not constructive, why did they give me downvotes OTHERWHERE?

 

Hello John, 

 

I do not really wanted to engage into this topic, but there is a thing I actually would like to explain. The voting system here is open for every logged in user. The forum is an asynchronous communication medium, that means users come and read when ever they have time to do so. Your discussion have been shifted from one topic over into this one over a certain period of time. Users who came earlier read and voted the first topic, other users who came later on read and voted here, or also in both topics. As there are no names connected with the votes you can't say that all downvotes are definitely from the same users, as the same applies to all upvotes. People always come and go here at different times.

 

Of course, we moderators and the forum owners (Aerosoft) are able to see who voted. This gives us the chance to identify miss-usage and take action on it. We do that actually quite often, we engage users by emails (private forum messages) as also in more severe cases with forum warnings. This is by the way what happened in f-birds case. He made a statement that suggested that the job of the moderators is to downvote everything that criticizes AS. That was a very rude allegation and deserved a warning (with no further consequences actually), As he followed up on that instead of just accepting that he crossed a line, he got a second warning, this time with the consequence that all his future posts will have to be approved by a moderator before showing up publicly. What everyone needs to understand is, that this is not an open and free forum like AVSIM but a company forum from Aerosoft and therefore part of their marketing efforts. This of course comes with more stricter rules compared to a totally open and free forum. 

 

I hope I was able to explain the voting system, and also the f-bird case as you brought it up here. He wasn't banned, he just learned the first two steps of moderation escalation after intentionally crossing the line.

 

I wish you a nice evening and hope that this case can be settled soon, as we all have already spent way too much time and emotions on it. In the end flight simulation is a hobby for all of us (unless one is a publisher or developer) and should bring joy and not anger.

 

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Hello Tom,

vor 23 Minuten, Tom A320 sagte:

 Your discussion have been shifted from one topic over into this one over a certain period of time.

In MY opinion, this is not true. So in MY opinion you also made it even worse.

 

But thank you very much for your kind reply. Even if I feel like been misunderstood.

But maybe we think the same:

vor 48 Minuten, John Kunde sagte:

I truelly hope so. So instead of fighting we should wait patiently for the kind answer from Winfried Diekmann.

It does not hurry :-)

 

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On 12/19/2017 at 6:35 PM, John Kunde said:

In MY opinion, this is not true. So in MY opinion you also made it even worse.

 

 

This discussion started over in the Hamburg topic and is now continued here. How is that not "shifting over" and how do I make it worse just by stating this fact? 

 

I tried to explain the voting system to you and you search the needle in the haystack in that explanation to take personal offense from it. 

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To avoid nasty comments about censuring etc.... User f-bird asked to have his account deleted from the forum, so if you miss his comments it is because he asked for it.  If you like to reach him drop me a mail at mathijs.kok@aerosoft.com and I will ask him if he wants to reach out to you. 

 

Even though we seriously disagree with some of his points of view and were still trying to figure out who gave pluses or minuses (we already corrected his status as at least two votes were not given correct) we never enjoy a user leaving, certainly not  a good customer like f-bird.  There is no way we can make all customers happy all the time, not with products and not with the way we support them. But we sure will try. However this is our forum and we decide what is acceptable and what not. It is not a 'public' forum like on AVSIM, we see the forum as an extension of our customers support and marketing department. 

 

The moderation is done by my staff, our project managers and the deputies. Deputies are customers who have been helping other users for years and years and got our complete trust. They are not paid (unless you count a a few free products, free beers at shows and a email at Christmas as payment). They are friends of Aerosoft and earned there status. 

 

As we believe that user make or break a forum we are using the standard voting system the software offers. This allows all registered users to show if they believe a post is valuable or not. The value of this system is clear, a good post stands out and it becomes clear what the users are that help others. These customers are important for us, we can give them some free software, ask them to become deputy. At the other end of the spectrum it shows what post users feel are toxic, not productive etc. It saves the moderators from stepping in too often, if a post gets -10 in a matter of hours it should be clear to the poster that a lot of people do not like it and there is little reason for moderators to step in. It's a self regulating system to a point.  Of course it is also a possible pint of conflict. That is why downvotes are checked by us. When we see downvotes without a good reason we ask why they were given and often correct them.  A perfect system, for sure not, but I simply know no better system. I much rather have users correcting users them me having to ban them.

 

All users of the forum who are registered have the voting rights. When we are sure people misuse the system (for example to make a second account to vote their posts up) we take away the voting right. Currently there are 12 users who have that right taken away. But in voting we are all equal. In 2017 I have (so far) given 1259 upvotes and 92 downvotes. I feel it is super important to show people when you enjoy what they post. We got users that spend a long time making their posts and they are gems.  Just check what some of the pilots that take part in our round the world flight do:

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/127423-capt-lambert-in-biplanes/&do=findComment&comment=857682  There are dozens of fantastic stories there that deserve your upvote. 

 

As said, not a perfect system and it will not please everybody all of the time. And it will keep on creating issue once in awhile. But user satisfaction on these forums is always above 90% (on our ticket system it is between 85% and 90%) and where needed we'll adapt. As always when you feel something incorrect has happened let me know at mathijs.kok@aerosoft.com. With over 25.000 customer contacts a year problems will happen and as said no matter what, keeping everybody happy all the time is an impossibility.

 

If you stay polite, willing to listen and not only shout, all will be well. Having a different opinion is fine, telling us a product sucks is fine. Saying it 20 times not so much. Attacking our developers in public not so much. Attacking my staff (or the deputies) is unacceptable. I get paid enough to take some abuse, they do not. 

 

But as said, these are our forums, not public forums, you are our (very welcome) guest here.  So we decide what is acceptable here. If you feel that is too limited there are dozens (if not hundreds) of other forums where you are not our guest. 

 

 

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I am a HUGE fan of AEROSOFT. I LOVE the products.

 

As an owner of an online business I understand how difficult it is to satisfy all of the people all of the time, especially when 22% of the time a customer is being unreasonable. 

 

I recently ordered a something for prepar3D when I'm running FSX, I sent a naive email asking if it were possible to refund......no big deal....€20 or something....but the response I received was very very terse and defensive, accusatory even:

 

"You ordered this thing and now it's wrong and you want to blame us for you making mistakes, read the wotsit next time before you buy something it will be better for us all"

 

This instantly made me want to delete all Aerosoft products and leave you to your stress.

 

BUT, I think that it's all lost in translation.

 

Politeness is tough in a non mother tongue. 

 

In my company we pre-write the politeness in 16 languages into the email header and footer and then the responder just has to add the meat in the middle, it cuts down on repeated work and streamlines the typed responses. 

 

Comeback on the responses sent drop to 5%.

 

So my suggestion for Aerosoft is to learn to be polite on a grand scale and save key personnel time. 

 

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If this is about the order you done in May, that is not what was replied to you. If you put things between quotes I believe it is customary to use the exact words.

 

You bought an XP add-on and we delivered an XP addon. However you made a mistake in that order because you actually wanted a product for FSX. Now unfortunately we were unable to change that order. As we know how that  looks to people we do our utmost to explain before you buy the product that it is important that you check your order and that we are unable to refund in case of a mistake. 

 

1. The product class is clearly shown:

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2. The compatible simulator is clearly noted in the system requirements:

 

?name=inline-894824894.png

 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 

3. Before you pay we ask you to check this one more time and to confirm this:

 

?name=inline-1940693256.png

 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 

4. We try to make it as clear as possible that we will not refund download orders and we ask you to confirm this:

 

?name=inline181526732.png

 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 

We understand errors can happen but as you see we did our best to prevent this.

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The P3Dv4 compatible search seems to have gone from the web page, I used it as I only use P3Dv4 now and it was a great help in looking for compatible products.

 

Regards Ray Fry. 

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Dears i have question to you from Aerosoft. I know you sell the PMDG 737 and 777. Why dont you sell the 747? Does that have a reason?

 

Cheers

 

Pascal

 

 

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Hi

I love your products but I would love pre-paid gift card integration. I have tried before and it hasn't work? Am I doing something wrong or you don't have it. I really wish I could buy from main store becuase where I buy from inflates price a little.

Regards

Slimaa

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no like a giftcard you buy at the store for 25.50,100$

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Wish the complete Aerosoft team & Staff the best wishes for 2019. Thanks for your endless patience to keep up this forum and answer all the questions.

 

I was wondering if there are any plans for an update for EHAM - Xplane 11. In my opinion X-plane is getting more serious as an "competitor" for P3D and I'm using it more often then before.

 

Best regards,

 

Arthur

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vor 19 Stunden , Slimaa sagte:

no like a giftcard you buy at the store for 25.50,100$

Hi Slimaa,

 

First I like to wish a Happy New Year.
It seems that those kinds of giftcards are missing.

Can explain more detailed what you mean and how these giftcards should look like?

 

Kind regards

Winfried

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vor 3 Stunden , ArtMan sagte:

Wish the complete Aerosoft team & Staff the best wishes for 2019. Thanks for your endless patience to keep up this forum and answer all the questions.

 

I was wondering if there are any plans for an update for EHAM - Xplane 11. In my opinion X-plane is getting more serious as an "competitor" for P3D and I'm using it more often then before.

 

Best regards,

 

Arthur

Hi Arthur,

 

Yes, we will do a new Amsterdam scenery but it will take some time as it is a big airport which is always under construction.

 

Kind regards and a Happy New Year.

Winfried

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A big thank you Winfried.

 

Yes EHAM must be an tremendous job. Take your time.

 

B.R.,

 

Arthur

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All of this is in reference to the A330 forums specifically. 

I am posting this to comment on the closing of the A330 preview forum.  And then the subsequent forum to discuss yeas and nays.  I'm posting this here because the appropriate forums are closed.  I have some things I would really like to say.  I'm not a troll. I just very much disagree with the way aerosoft is conducting themselves. Also, I have read basically every single forum post for the A320-A330 preview forums going back the last year and a half.  Every. Single. Post 

 

According to the release schedule the A330 is now late.  The A18-19 was also late. That's not ideal but development takes time. Ok cool. But then for the project manager to be kinda flippant about it.  ( the post is deleted now, but I think he wrote he was sitting down with a glass of wine and writing the post. It's not a yelp review! It's an update on a late product of which your in charge. ) (I'm not calling @Mathijs Kok unprofessional) I don't care so much about release dates and whether the whole project is late and by how much. But a person @calzoom asked some very legitimate and uncomfortable questions and Mathijs Kok basically ended up closing the forum.  And then whole downvoted forum was opened then closed. Saying people are trolls because they disagree with you is ridiculous. I dont really have much of a point.  More of a general collection of statements. But if I was to have overall statement(s) it would be this / these: 

1) Closing forums because not everyone agrees with you is not right. 

2 ) Updates should be separate from the forum.  The forum being a place to discuss.  And updates by the project manager in a separate closed update section. 

3 ) This is a forum to discuss a virtual plane, not Greys Anatomy.  There really should not be so much drama. Just turn off the upvotes and the downvotes.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Adamthepilotkid said:

All of this is in reference to the A330 forums specifically. 

I am posting this to comment on the closing of the A330 preview forum.  And then the subsequent forum to discuss yeas and nays.  I'm posting this here because the appropriate forums are closed.  I have some things I would really like to say.  I'm not a troll. I just very much disagree with the way aerosoft is conducting themselves. Also, I have read basically every single forum post for the A320-A330 preview forums going back the last year and a half.  Every. Single. Post 

 

According to the release schedule the A330 is now late.  The A18-19 was also late. That's not ideal but development takes time. Ok cool. But then for the project manager to be kinda flippant about it.  ( the post is deleted now, but I think he wrote he was sitting down with a glass of wine and writing the post. It's not a yelp review! It's an update on a late product of which your in charge. ) (I'm not calling @Mathijs Kok unprofessional) I don't care so much about release dates and whether the whole project is late and by how much. But a person @calzoom asked some very legitimate and uncomfortable questions and Mathijs Kok basically ended up closing the forum.  And then whole downvoted forum was opened then closed. Saying people are trolls because they disagree with you is ridiculous. I dont really have much of a point.  More of a general collection of statements. But if I was to have overall statement(s) it would be this / these: 

1) Closing forums because not everyone agrees with you is not right. 

2 ) Updates should be separate from the forum.  The forum being a place to discuss.  And updates by the project manager in a separate closed update section. 

3 ) This is a forum to discuss a virtual plane, not Greys Anatomy.  There really should not be so much drama. Just turn off the upvotes and the downvotes.

 

 

I share the same statement, its not for nothing, but @calzoom made questions that actually concern to most of us. I know these projects are painstaking and draining, but many of us are wondering if this project will turn like the CRJ or the failed 737 classic and the a380 attempted by other publishers that I wont mention, because its irrelevant. The whole voting system, correct should be taken down and updates, on my opinion, should be made every three months, rather than every Friday, just like said on the quoted statement, ON A SEPARATE CLOSED FORUM, and proof of that was with the development of the CRJ, as people started to become antsy about the release date... I posted the words on the CRJ forum, the same Im posting today on this forum about the a330 and Mr. @Tom A320 replied “use the search engine, its a great tool” or something about those lines, on why being open to people, and appeartly I was right, now you guys had to close the forum. Smh... Why keeping people anxious? @Mathijs Kok

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7 hours ago, ixv2969 said:

I posted the words on the CRJ forum, the same Im posting today on this forum about the a330 and Mr. @Tom A320 replied “use the search engine, its a great tool” or something about those lines, on why being open to people, and appeartly I was right, now you guys had to close the forum. Smh...

 

About a year go the search functionality of the forum broke during a forum software update. Before that it was a great tool, since then it's plain crap. And never since then I have suggested to use it anymore. Just to be precise in the discussion here.

 

If I answered your suggestion with a comment like "please use the search feature", it was surely because your suggestion had be made already several times and was therefore noticed by all people in charge of this forum. And I would have also said that clearly and not just pointed you to the top right corner of the page.

 

Please be more complete and precise in your arguments here.

 

The reason why your former post in the preview topic is not available anymore to just check back, is because it was deleted after some time. And that's because it wasn't related to the A330. A preview topic is there to showcase upcoming products, and not a general discussion topic. And that's why Mathijs closed it for the moment, as people ignored these hints again and again. And that was also the reason why Mathijs opened a separated topic for the voting discussion. There are lots of places for free discussions in this forum, but the preview topics are none of them.

 

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I am not happy too about closing the A 330 preview forum. I would like to say something about downvoting eg.

I am customer of Aerosoft since FS 2004 times. I am sorry, but meantimes I did not fly for several years, because time was too less. I was surprised, that Aerosoft has grown so much during last years and I like that. The forum helped me a lot to understand and learn about the phantastic 318/319/320/321. Although some things did not run perfect, the aeroplane now seems nearly perfect. I know, some things are in work to grow it better!

So it is a fact, the Aerosoft-team did a great job! If anybody has different opinions, he doesn´t have to buy! As long as most of customers are satisfied in how the planes work and how the Aorosoft-team handles the developments, the team should not worry about! And I think, more than 95 % of the customers are satisfied. And - is it only your thing, how much time you need for a new product! Sure, I am waiting for A 330 too, and time takes so long! But, we are not able to know all the problems, that can come out during development. So we have to stay calm!

Gentlemen from Aerosoft, do your work as you like! Customers will show when it is done. You will realize the the money that will be made, and that is what counts!

Greetings

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The A330 forum was closed because it was just a warzone where people tried to get their points across often, often by making fake accounts to get more votings done. It simply was not making sense, it was just upsetting people. The voting topic was closed because I wanted to test the waters and get an idea of what people thought about it. With that information, we already made a decision on how to proceed. The topic, therefore, was not useful. I have never closed a forum because there are posts that I did not like. I can show you 12 years of forum management to proof that.

 

Please keep in mind these are NOT discussion forums, they are part of our marketing and support. If we feel a post is not suitable it is our prerogative to hide it. Those are conditions you agreed to. 

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I think that this decision is very necessary and correct.
At last the calm will return and Aerosoft can be work your Job.

 

Greeting Martin.

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We have also disabled the complete reputation system at this moment as we seen some blatant attempts to abuse it. 

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