OK to start engines and clearance to taxi

[eziocin 8]

I have noticed that the time between the ground crew gives "OK to start engines" and the "OK to taxi" is usually shorter that the time it takes to have both engines running stable at idle, which results in an unrealistic call for "cleared to taxi" when engines startup is still ongoing.

Is there a way to link the "ok to taxi" call to the engine startup phase completed ? That would be nice ...

Regards

[cbd80 258]

Hi. I think that would be difficult to tie in, or rather some work involved as AES would have to be familiar with each addon aircraft and read the LUA variables, assuming they exist.

It depends on your perspective. Ground crew saying to the captain 'Cleared to taxi' only means the push back truck has been removed to me. Taxi clearance is only given by the ground controller once the pilot has made the call. So engine start does not need to be completed by the time AES finishes.

Chris

[OPabst 2091]

I have noticed that the time between the ground crew gives "OK to start engines" and the "OK to taxi" is usually shorter that the time it takes to have both engines running stable at idle, which results in an unrealistic call for "cleared to taxi" when engines startup is still ongoing.

Is there a way to link the "ok to taxi" call to the engine startup phase completed ? That would be nice ...

Regards

You are talking about the process at a gate without pushback, not about the startup sequence while the pushback process?

[edetroit 529]

Hello Oliver, I recently made a flight in a 747 which was with a startup without pushback and I found the call "cleared to taxi" came too soon after "cleared for startup"

[CAPFlyer 10]

I'm not sure where the whole "Cleared to Taxi" call comes from. I've never seen it in any airline manual or regulation that I've worked with, including British Airways and Lufthansa. Technically, the ground crew has no authority to "clear" the airplane to move. That's the responsibility of the Air Traffic Controllers and Ramp Controllers. The suggested series of calls I was taught to use is something along these lines -

FC = Flight Crew, GC = Ground Crew

FC- Ready for Pushback, Tail (straight, left, right, normal)

GC- Roger, tug connected, (steering pin installed/link pins removed/steering disconnected), release parking brakes.

FC- Parking Brakes released.

GC- Beginning pushback.

(Pushback Commences)

(When clear of all equipment)

GC- Clear on the left and right, engine start your discretion.

(Flight crew may advise when ready for engine start prior to this which would require either the above or a "Hold/Not Clear" response)

(When pushback complete)

GC- Pushback Complete, set Parking Brakes.

FC - Parking Brakes set, OK to remove equipment.

(GC removes pin, reconnects pins/lins as required and disconnected towbar)

GC- Steering pin removed/Steering Pins connected/Link Reinstalled, towbar removed.

FC- Roger, you are OK to disconnect intercom.

GC- Roger, disconnecting intercom, wait for my hand signal on the (right/left) have a good flight.

For a gate start, if an intercom is used (unlikely) it's only to verify that the equpiment's been removed and all doors are closed. Otherwise, hand signals are used for engine start, removal of chocks, and marshalling out of the spot.

[edetroit 529]

I'm not sure where the whole "Cleared to Taxi" call comes from. I've never seen it in any airline manual or regulation that I've worked with, including British Airways and Lufthansa. Technically, the ground crew has no authority to "clear" the airplane to move. That's the responsibility of the Air Traffic Controllers and Ramp Controllers. The suggested series of calls I was taught to use is something along these lines -

FC = Flight Crew, GC = Ground Crew

FC- Ready for Pushback, Tail (straight, left, right, normal)

GC- Roger, tug connected, (steering pin installed/link pins removed/steering disconnected), release parking brakes, beginning pushback.

(Pushback Commences)

(When clear of all equipment)

GC- Clear on the left and right, engine start your discretion.

(Flight crew may advise when ready for engine start prior to this which would require either the above or a "Hold/Not Clear" response)

(When pushback complete)

GC- Pushback Complete, set Parking Brakes.

FC - Parking Brakes set, OK to remove equipment.

(GC removes pin, reconnects pins/lins as required and disconnected towbar)

GC- Steering pin removed/Steering Pins connected/Link Reinstalled, towbar removed.

FC- Roger, you are OK to disconnect intercom.

GC- Roger, disconnecting intercom, wait for my hand signal on the (right/left) have a good flight.

For a gate start, if an intercom is used (unlikely) it's only to verify that the equpiment's been removed and all doors are closed. Otherwise, hand signals are used for engine start, removal of chocks, and marshalling out of the spot.

Good call Capflyer! I am in favour of removing the phrase "Cleared to Taxi". I have always found it confusing as the ATC clears me for taxi.

[jgoggi 30]

I totally agree with removing the phrase. Further, as the author of the topic says, it always arrives too early, regardless if while doing pushback or not. In my case, with the PMDG 737 NGX, after I have started engine 2 and still have to start engine 1, given that I am fast enough to start engine 2 as soon as I get the clearance to start... The timing should be adjusted, by adding at least 1-2 minutes, or there should be an option to set the timing, as it happens for example for the passengers boarding time.

[eudoniga 4]

Hello folks,

let me add my "two cents" to your interesting chat ...

I wouldn't dare to add a single ounce of pressure upon Oliver right now, given what he's still trying to accomplish for us; after all, I think we'd all go for some more valuable additions, rather than just seeing this kind of issue fixed. Also, if it's only a matter of timing, it can be done more easily by him; but if it's also about wording, so that sound files need to be corrected, it's no longer depending on him alone (btw Oliver, you know I'm always ready for any change to the italian marshaller's voice ... as soon as you ask for it).

To the most active ones: think about editing the wavs, both for timing and for wording changes.

As for timing, why not adding a couple minute silence before the marshaller speaks ?

As for wording, the unwanted sentence might be cut out from the rest of the wave.

Happy landings and always three greens !

Eu

[jgoggi 30]

To the most active ones: think about editing the wavs, both for timing and for wording changes.

As for timing, why not adding a couple minute silence before the marshaller speaks ?

No, because you will hear the marshaller say "wait for my hand signal on the left (right) hand side" while he has already been giving the signal for 2 minutes...

[geoffco 12]

As far as I can tell, the problem is that AES does not currently take into account the running status of more than one engine...

If I am correct, then the "wait for my hand signal on the left (right) hand side" message is played when the pushback animation is completed (if applicable) and at least one engine is running. Since there is likely to be a provision for more detail in the aircraft setup on some later version (this is at least hinted at in some posts) then perhaps we will be able to specify a number of engines or a 'startup delay' time?

In the current situation, at least when there /is/ pushback from the gate, I find it easiest to buy some extra time for the startup procedures and checklists by not setting the parking brake after pushback until I am ready for the next stage... This will cause the AES animation to pause until the brakes are set...

Geoff