Aerosoft OV-10 Bronco Packet Flooding Multiplayer Servers

[Buzz313th 2]

Just bought the Bronco yesterday and want to say, nice job on the sim, I just have one big problem that is a show stopper for me as I fly mainly online.

Last night I logged into a freinds server and the server admin informed me that the Bronco was flooding the server with 19 times the packets, when compared to something like the A2A warbirds. He explained to me that this meant that one Bronco was sending the equivelent amount of data as 19 clients connected with the A2A accusimmed P-40. Nevertheless, we experienced multiple disconnects on the server when I was trying to start the bronco up on the MP server.

Are you guys at Aerosoft looking into this problem? If so, when might we see a patch to correct this and make the addon more efficient?

JB

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

There is one issue that could be the cause of this and that's the propeller animations. They overwrite the default animations because FGSX does not know this type of engines. This is an issue that is simply unavoidable and that can not be changed.

[Buzz313th 2]

There is one issue that could be the cause of this and that's the propeller animations. They overwrite the default animations because FGSX does not know this type of engines. This is an issue that is simply unavoidable and that can not be changed.

Thanks for the quick Customer Service.

If the prop animations are the only cause of the flooding, would you guys consider disabling that one feature to include a, "Multiplayer Model"?

If not, considering I purchased the Bronco with the intention of Multiplayer flying and the pre-purchase research I did had no indication it was gonna be a lemmon in MP servers, would you consider giving me a refund or credit for a future purchase?

JB

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Thanks for the quick Customer Service.

If the prop animations are the only cause of the flooding, would you guys consider disabling that one feature to include a, "Multiplayer Model"?

If not, considering I purchased the Bronco with the intention of Multiplayer flying and the pre-purchase research I did had no indication it was gonna be a lemmon in MP servers, would you consider giving me a refund or credit for a future purchase?

JB

When we completed the fullty version we'll check this out. Multiplayer is very badly documented by MS, we have had so many issue with this.

But we sure can experiment, could mean that the props will have to be fully deleted though, as said FSX simply has no turbo prop engine like the Bronco has so all animations have to added and can not depend on any standard bit.

[Buzz313th 2]

When we completed the fullty version we'll check this out. Multiplayer is very badly documented by MS, we have had so many issue with this.

But we sure can experiment, could mean that the props will have to be fully deleted though, as said FSX simply has no turbo prop engine like the Bronco has so all animations have to added and can not depend on any standard bit.

Thanks Mathijs,

Don't get me wrong, I like the addon. It would just be a shame if I didn't fly it considering most of my time is on MP servers. Not to mention the plane handles great and makes for a really cool aircraft to casually fly in a group flight.

Nevertheless, If the best solution is to replace the external prop animations for the default FSX ones only for the "Multiplayer Model" version of the Bronco, then I am completely satisfied with that. Honestly, I'f I'm flying the Bronco online, then most of my attention will be looking at the formation leader and not my props.

But in the worse case sceneario and you guys can't get it MP stable without flooding the server, could you please comment on whether you guys would be willing to give me a refund or credit?

Thanks

JB

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

With the default animations the props would be stopped. Let's wait and see okay?

When we are sure that you removed the product from your system we can do a refund.

[Buzz313th 2]

With the default animations the props would be stopped. Let's wait and see okay?

When we are sure that you removed the product from your system we can do a refund.

Ok sounds good...

Thanks for the prompt Customer service.

JB

[Buzz313th 2]

Considering the Full version of the Bronco is out and Hotfix 1.11 fixed the sound issues, do you guys plan on addressing the multiplayer flooding issue?

JB

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

I'll discuss this tomorrow. But keep in mind that if we are able to solve it, it will be an unofficial and unsupported fix as the SDK does not offer any support on this.

[Buzz313th 2]

I'll discuss this tomorrow. But keep in mind that if we are able to solve it, it will be an unofficial and unsupported fix as the SDK does not offer any support on this.

Thats perfect, as long as I can succesfully fly the bronco on a MP server without causing the rest of the players to disconnect due to packet flooding. If I can't then the Bronco for my purposes is just a hard drive paperweight that cost me 30 bucks.

Thanks for the reply.

JB

[Finn 873]

I don´t think that it is the Propeller animation causing this.

The propeller animation uses L:Vars, which are "Local" variables so only processed on the computer running the Bronco.

What happens is probably, like told elsewhere here, that my code constantly sets the fuel selector switches and NAV2 (TACAN) as well as COM2 (Digital Radio on righthand panel).

I have made two "test gauges" where the frequencies of the two radios only are set when needed isntead of being set 16-18 times per second as well as the fuel selector switches only are set with a 2 seconds interval.

There are still a few items being set constantly, which cannot be changed without spoiling the entire turboprop engine simulation.

BUZZ313th !!! - please try a multiplayer session with these gauges.

ONLY USE THESE FILES FOR TESTING PACKAGE FLOW IN MULTIPLAYER

Installation:

-Go to: C:\...\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\SimObjects\Airplanes\Aerosoft OV-10B\Panel\

-Make a backup copy of: OV10a_GPS.CAB and OV10a_Sys.CAB

-Download and extract the files found in this post

-Put the extracted files into \Panel\ folder and answer yes to overwrite the two files (those You backed up)

-Check the Packet flow with the new files and report Your findings here

Files:

Test files_BroncoX_MP.zip

Best regards

Finn

[Buzz313th 2]

Sounds good Finn. Work has me completely slammed till Sunday, so I will try it then.

Thanks

JB

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JB

[Buzz313th 2]

Hey Finn, since I won't be able to help test this anytime soon, I would like to invite anyone interested in testing this to join Zoolanders Flightsim Teamspeak server and get ahold of Zoolander as he is always there.

He has two dedicated FSX MP servers and he is able to read the upstream/downstream packet load. Let him know that Buzz sent ya and that if he has the time, then maybe he could monitor packet load with the ver 1.11 Bronco unmodified and then do the same with Bronco ver 1.11 modified with Finn's fixes and see if the situation improves.

I usually sim on Zoolanders servers and he is the one that helped me initially troubleshoot the Bronco on MP and also informed me of the packet flooding before I made the initial post in this thread.

His teamspeak server address is

ts3.digitalthemepark.com

And no password required.

Thanks

JB

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JB

[Tristan 2]

Hi Finn,

just checked it.

seems like it is better now (instead of +400 now "only" a little on top of 100)

but the mp-servers mentioned here, are still kicking the bronco out, because of

this flooding.

So it seems like you are on the right way >;O)

BTW...

You can check that easily yourself

start fsx

multiplayer

freeflight room

choose the mp-pro-server (looks like you need a password, but you do not)

open this page: http://fs-mp.net/stat/afp.asp

and watch yourself in the list

Have a great day Finn,

best wishes

Tristan

EDIT: +400 and 100 means Requests per Minute

[Finn 873]

Hi Finn,

just checked it.

seems like it is better now (instead of +400 now "only" a little on top of 100)

but the mp-servers mentioned here, are still kicking the bronco out, because of

this flooding.

So it seems like you are on the right way >;O)

BTW...

You can check that easily yourself

start fsx

multiplayer

freeflight room

choose the mp-pro-server (looks like you need a password, but you do not)

open this page: http://fs-mp.net/stat/afp.asp

and watch yourself in the list

Have a great day Finn,

best wishes

Tristan

EDIT: +400 and 100 means Requests per Minute

Thanks for the test Tristan.

What would an acceptable figure bee at ?

Honestly I know very little about the multiplayer system in FSX.

Finn

[Tristan 2]

Hi Finn,

i tried to find out, but havent found any infos yet.

But if you take a look at the aircrafts in use on that server, they only do 1-10 requests a minute.

on the other hand the RED marker starts close to 100.

I think if you can reduce it to 30? As much as i understood is "the less the better".

i know i know Finn....this sounds not like a proffessionel answer..hehehhehe....

maybe somebody else here is knowing better the limits.

Good luck

Tristan

[Buzz313th 2]

It's my understanding that server stability is directly tied to packet load. If the average hi fidelity addon like the a2a birds are doing around 5-10 rpm then having a bronco in the server running 100rpm is like having an additional 10 to 20 aircraft in the server.

Your probably nit gonna find a particular number, and as Tristan said, the lower you can get it the better.

JB

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JB

[Finn 873]

The problem here is the special engine code.

Inorder to simulate the geared turboprop I need to manipulate the propeller levers - note that the Bronco doesn´t have propeller controls available for the pilot.

My code needs to set the propeller levers as a function of Power lever, condition lever and startlatch settings.

This must be done constantly, otherwise control will become very choppy.

I will try a few other things here to reduce the amount of Key events, but I´m afraid that it won´t be much I can do.

The best would be if the Shared cockpit function could be remived for a particular aircraft, since it has no use for an aircraft like the Bronco. But microsoft has not given any information in their SDK about multiplayer functions.

Finn

[Tristan 2]

Hi Finn,

maybe it is a good idea, to contact the people of that server.

As they wrote, they fixed a couple of aircrafts.

They don´t edit the aircraft, but somehow they ignore the keys sended.

maybe they have any idea wich might help?

Really stupid that in some cases the sdk isnt that well.

Its more like being a scientist than an addon-developer...hahahaha

Good Luck man!

Tristan

[Buzz313th 2]

Hey Finn...

Here's just one blog post from an ex Aces team member that talks about gauge sharing. I'm not a coder, but maybe somewhere she explains how to stop the key events from being shared.

http://blogs.technet...rio-part-1.aspx

Heres a few more links that might help one to find a solution to key event flooding. These posts are from Geoff Ambrose, the gentleman who runs the FSMP servers.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/340221-addon-developers-gauges-causing-lag/

http://www.fs-mp.com/server/flooding.html

And last.. there is a bit of discussion over at the prepar3d forums to try and find a way to get shared cockpit to work with 3rd party aircraft. Maybe finding a way to get it to work will help find a way to shut off the default sharing entirely, thus removing the flooding.

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum-5/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=734

and just the general forum for multiplayer here..

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum-5/?mingleforumaction=viewforum&f=27.0

JB

[Finn 873]

Hey Finn...

Here's just one blog post from an ex Aces team member that talks about gauge sharing. I'm not a coder, but maybe somewhere she explains how to stop the key events from being shared.

http://blogs.technet...rio-part-1.aspx

JB

Thanks for the link, but that doesn´t help, since it describes how to send further info via the network that what FSX does.

In a way it is stupid that key events are send if the shared cockpit function isn´t used.

I assume that most people flying in multiplayer, flies their own aircraft and not act as pilot/copilot, so sending key events for stuff like fuelselectors, radio settings etc.. is bad.

The FSX multiplayer should only do this if the shared cockpit function has been selected. With the ACES team disbanded we will have to live with what we got - unfortunatly.

I looked into the S.A.F.E section of FS-MP.net....

One can argue that the Bronco code is improperly done - at least seen from a multiplayer point of view.

Again I must say that FSX SDK does very little to help on how to handle multiplayer. The shared cokpit function is not described at all.

For most aircraft addons there is no problem because all coding can be done aka the default aircraft using standard FSX SDK functions.

When it comes to more complex addons You often are forced to "bend" these functions to achieve what You want.

The Bronco is equipped with an negine type that simply does not exist in FSX, so we had to heavily tweak and "misuses" some functions to make all gauge readings, propeller animations and general behaviour to work.

I´m not done with fixing this issue, but I doub´t I can get the number alot lower without sacrificing a good deal of the realism we have managed to put into the engine modelling.

Finn

[Buzz313th 2]

Hey Finn,

Please don't take my post the wrong way. I had no intention to insinuate that any coding was done improperly. I am fully aware of the undocumented/unfinished features of FSX.

The links in my post were to just inform you of some of the efforts being put forth by users and the devs at p3d to try and shed some light on the undocumented multiplayer aspect of FSX/ESP/p3d.

I have heard through the grapevine that there might be ex aces team members working for Lockheed in development with p3d. So if there are undocumented ways to manipulate or filter data in a MP environment using FSX/p3d/ESP, the P3D folks would be the ones to ask.Good luck and I will keep digging.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JB

[Finn 873]

JB

I did not take Your post as a critic of the coding. What I mean is that seen from a multiplayer stand point the coding is not sound - which I to some extend agree about, given the fact how data is interchanged in FSX.

Finn

[Finn 873]

I did some testing on the FS-MP server...

With current fixed files (the ones available above) I found this to happen:

After joining the session and just starting in the Bronco, packet flooding went to 98 marked pink. On some occasions it went to 148 though.

Reloading the Bronco from within the sim brought packet flooding down to 0 marked green.

Sometimes this happened gradually, like 98 - 68 - 0. I think this might have to do with how the FS-MP updates the packet flooding figure.

What seems to help is either to reload the Bronco or toggling External lights matser switch between On (middle position ) to Landing lights (forward position) and back again - or doing the same with panel lights.

I did not test what happens if loading a default aircraft, like the Cessna 172 and then once in the sime changes to the Bronco.

Screenshot of my FS-MP session:

For reloading Aircraft I have made this key assignment inside FSX:

Please test if this is working for You !!

Fact is that during initial loading of the Bronco a huge number of key events are send inorder to setup the Bronco.

Why the packet flooding keeps hanging at a high number is a mysteri to me, but it seems that re-loadoing the Bronco right after it has been loaded and settled for some seconds seems to seize this flooding - at least on my system.

Problem for us developers is not that we are unwilling to make addons that suits both offline and online flying, but customers do request more and more complex addons with functions never really supported by FSX core functions. This means we need to find ways around these limitations which again jeopardizes other FSX functions like multiplayer.

Finn

[Buzz313th 2]

Thanks Finn...

I appreciate you trying to chip away at this. Still getting slammed by work, but come sunday I will give it a try.

JB