off topic= Anti-piracy campaign

[ddeuce 14]

I will re-up my files when I can find a legitimate file holder... Megaupload was compromised last evening, and shut-down for 5 counts of copyrite violations. ... sorry for any inconvenience.

[DC8DRIVER 5]

Why not upload to flightsim.com or avsim? I've been doing that for years with no issues.

[Snave 466]

There are plenty of copyright violations on BOTH those sites, so please don't waste our time suggesting they are whiter-than-white.

[ddeuce 14]

There are plenty of copyright violations on BOTH those sites, so please don't waste our time suggesting they are white-than-white.

Thank you SNAVE...... you sir are a gentleman, and a scholar

[DC8DRIVER 5]

If you are looking for any site that is as pure as the driven snow.....good luck. How can uploading textures only for a payware model be a copyright violation? It may in fact spark interest in someone else to buy the model.

[Snave 466]

Ah, I see. So using pirated software also serves a purpose by creating a `try before buy` market...?

Double standards.And who mentioned uploading textures for a payware model? How about all those freeware models - equally copyright - which have been modified and uploaded without the authors consent - or even knowledge?

How about the tacit approval of promotion on their site and in their shops for products which have been proven to contain pirated software? How about repaints made with pirated software..?

I do agree that you need more than luck to find a site as pure as driven snow. But Megaupload was taken down by organisations that are of themselves, riddled with illegality, convicted of self-interest, guilty of acting against the consumers interest - and in most cases not even in the interests of those they purport to represent.

[CoolP 24]

ddeuce, you want to upload your liveries, right? And Aerosoft is ok with that, right? Then DC8DRIVER's tip is spot on. However, you can choose any other filehoster of course. If Megaupload is down, maybe use Mediafire or something.

And what's with this section in the Aerosoft downloads? http://forum.aerosof...2-fsx-repaints/

OZx also allows uploading repaints and things to their system.

I wouldn't render uploading liveries more complicated or even political than it needs to be. And, first of all, thanks for your work on rendering the Bronco more colourful.

[Finn 873]

Aerosofts Download section in this forum is open for all.

But the problem remains, no one can prove who really uploaded the content. Was it something original done by Ddeuce f.ex ? or something stolen from elsewhere.

I don´t think there are any workable solutions to counter piracy.

I remember when Silent Hunter 3 was released. It came with Starforce copy protection. Starforce was/is very effective but also very intrusive.

Nonetheless... a few month after, a small exe could be downloaded. All You had to do was to install SH3, but not run it, then run the small exe and

voila Starfore did not activate nor got installed and it opened SH3 up for use without copy protection.

I had a legal copy of SH3, but did not want Starforce, thus I used it.

My point is... even the best protection against piracy will be broken at some point. There are always someone smarter out there.

The only cure is trying to change the attitude of people, making it clear that there are no differences between using pirated software and stealing goods from a store.

Finn

[Snave 466]

Absolutely.

Alongside being deeply suspicious of the motives, methods and morals of those who assume the High Ground. Their interest is simply never what it appears to be.

Piracy can be: Threat; counter-culture; criminality - or just plain old massive incompetence.

[Emi 5161]

The only cure is trying to change the attitude of people, making it clear that there are no differences between using pirated software and stealing goods from a store.

That's true Finn, but I think most people see software (expecially download software) different as they don't have anything in their hands. In the end software is something you can't really touch and that changes a lot of things in many peoples views. They think "well I don't get anything real so I don't need to pay for it". Surely that's somehow true as you only get a string of 0s and 1s (well in the end not even that) , but in the end you still pay for the work the developer put into it and that is real.

In my opinion one of the biggest reason for piracy in flightsimulation industry are the prices for the products. They are very expensice, no doubt. But sadly there aren't enough customers like in other sorts of computergames and so they have to be that expensive. I mean if you compare some games like CoD with the PMDG NGX you will clearly see where more working hours have been put in and where more GBs come with the game. But they still cost nearly the same. So I think many pirates will just think "why should I pay that, it could be much cheaper".

I understand that it can't if you as developer want to make some money with your product. A developer like EA Games or one of those would most propably don't even start developing any product if they had some pruchase numbers like the ones Aerosoft has for all their products togeather.

[Finn 873]

That's true Finn, but I think most people see software (expecially download software) different as they don't have anything in their hands. In the end software is something you can't really touch and that changes a lot of things in many peoples views. They think "well I don't get anything real so I don't need to pay for it". Surely that's somehow true as you only get a string of 0s and 1s (well in the end not even that) , but in the end you still pay for the work the developer put into it and that is real.

In my opinion one of the biggest reason for piracy in flightsimulation industry are the prices for the products. They are very expensice, no doubt. But sadly there aren't enough customers like in other sorts of computergames and so they have to be that expensive. I mean if you compare some games like CoD with the PMDG NGX you will clearly see where more working hours have been put in and where more GBs come with the game. But they still cost nearly the same. So I think many pirates will just think "why should I pay that, it could be much cheaper".

I understand that it can't if you as developer want to make some money with your product. A developer like EA Games or one of those would most propably don't even start developing any product if they had some pruchase numbers like the ones Aerosoft has for all their products togeather.

I agree about the fact that people feel they get nothing solid in their hands.

Developement time though cannot be measured by the amount of GB a certain software requires.

In most other games You don´t have to make things very realistic, You can get way with most things. For FS addons You can´t - people simply demands the highest level of realism.

I don´t think it´s the price either, offcourse within limits and as long as it isn´t totally free, people steal software even if it would only cost 5,- Euro.

As long as there are people uploading stuff to the pirate sites, then there are also people downloading it, regardless of the pricing.

At least where I live, the price of 25,- Euros for the Bronco is less than I have to pay for a meal at McDonald for my 5 headed family.

Personally I think I get alot more enjoyment buying the Bronco than for the food at McDonalds.

Lately alot of game titles are released as "Free to play", additional content is then to be bought and activated via the net.

Look at "World of Tanks" or "Rise of flight". I think this is a mean of fighting piracy.

In "Rise of flight" You can now get the core game for free, but have to pay for additional aircraft. These cannot be downloaded, but are simply activated through Your account. Actually quite clever. The aircraft addons themself costs around 7 Euro - not alot. But buying 10 aircraft means 7x10=70,- Euro - more than most other games costs. So I think there is a future in that approach.

This doesn´t work for FSX cause it´s a open platform.

It can be discussed if FSX addons are too expensive, but believe me.. with todays standards it takes alot of man hours to make an addon like the Bronco. The 3D model itself requires one guy working fulltime (actually Stefan did much more than fulltime) in 6 month or so. Then comes the time for picking up documents and converting them into realistic systems code, flight model, manuals etc..

Since FSX addons only can be regarded as a niche´ You should not expect high sales numbers - far from comparable to titles like BF3 or the like.

One thing is sure, You won´t become a millionaer in this business, and pricay certainly not helps making the addons better or cheaper.

For each addon stolen, those paying will have to pay more - the money must come from somewhere thats a fact.

So if Your buddy brags about how clever he is getting free stuff from pirate sites, better tell him how he makes it more expensive for those willing to pay, and at the same time also makes him guilty slowing down the developers means of making games or addons better.

Finn

[levkovv 18]

Well,there are several causes for piracy in general and that also applies to fsx addons.People in some countries find the prices of addons acceptable,in others,they can't afford them.In some countries,laws against piracy aren't imposed or simply don't exist.In some countries,it is legal to post pirate copies of content not manufactured in that country.It can't be stopped,but developers can deal with them.I usually don't like posting in topics regarding piracy because they tend to get locked quite often,bur i made an exception.

Vladimir Levkov/Владимир Левков

[Snave 466]

So what you are saying is that being poor is an excuse for piracy? And that just because the laws don't exist in written form there is no moral compunction?

Such abrogation of personal responsibility is precisely why piracy is so rife.

Oh and you are wrong about it being legal to post pirated material in such countries. Copyright reaches from the country of origin and is not precluded by the absence of supporting legislation in the country of delivery.

Sadly, I find such moral ambiguity endemic in many people of Eastern Europe.Well done for reinforcing a stereotype...

[ddeuce 14]

The basic cause of piracy is still the same as anything else via theft "cause and effect", or simple greed, it can be debated thru infinity... "cause you have it, and I want it". I for one believe that knowledege in any existence should be free. It is by the graces of god, that one has the knowledge to do something... it is also by the grace of god that man should support man. But we know that will never happen, because if it should happen......... their would be no more rape, pilage, or murder... therfore no more policia, bobbies, or cops... laws just or not are written for man by man.. ever seen a dog, or cat accused of theft, ever seen a buck beat the hell out of his fellow buck... in nature's world it does not happen.. this world is screwed up, and EVERYBODY KNOWS it... THEIR WILL BE NO LAW, TILL LAW IS REMOVED FROM MAN. (THESIUS) Fact is I usually share my teachings with anyone, anytime... I will upload all my files to flightsim.com have a great weekend all [their are 8 million stories in the "NAKED" city..this has been one of them]

[levkovv 18]

So what you are saying is that being poor is an excuse for piracy? And that just because the laws don't exist in written form there is no moral compunction?

Such abrogation of personal responsibility is precisely why piracy is so rife.

Oh and you are wrong about it being legal to post pirated material in such countries. Copyright reaches from the country of origin and is not precluded by the absence of supporting legislation in the country of delivery.

Sadly, I find such moral ambiguity endemic in many people of Eastern Europe.Well done for reinforcing a stereotype...

No1

I mentioned poorer countries because someone above mentioned that addons are afordable.

No2

You mention moral,do you have laws against murder in the UK?If yes,why?You have moral,unlike eastern European people,shouldn't that stop you from commiting murder?

No3

Copyright does reach from the country of origin but law enforcement agencies of country of origin don't have authority in other countries.And some countries don't extradite their citizens.

I am not suporting piracy here,and you say I am reinforcing a stereotype.Do you think that being from UK grants people a monopoly to moral,and being from eastern Europe makes people criminals?