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Controls hyper-sensitive


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I got the Bronco a few days ago, and while I'm adoring its looks and the depth of systems modeled, I'm having issues with controlling it. Specifically, the pitch and roll is so sensitive that the tiniest flick of my wrist on the stick will yank the plane up and down or side to side.

In searching the forums here I don't see anyone else posting with this particular issue, so I assume it's my setup that's causing the problems. I've got an inexpensive Logitech joystick that I'm using because it's ambidextrous (with my setup, the stick has to go on the left side of the yoke, and most sticks are made to conform to the right hand). My FSX axis settings for pitch and roll have been disabled in the FSX controllers configuration, and I'm using FSUIPC to map the axes and calibrate them. I've tried playing with the slope settings in FSUIPC, going as far as -10, but the stick is still as twitchy as ever. Curiously, the same stick and settings in my other planes reacts normally.

In my attempt to track down the problem, I've tried assigning the controls using the FSX default assignments (no change in sensitivity) and assigning my Saitek yoke to the pitch and roll in FSUIPC, which gave a little relief but not much. At this point, it still feels like I'm trying to balance a ball on the head of a pin to keep it flying straight and level. For that matter, rudder input is fairly exaggerated as well, with even a slight pressure on one pedal or the other sending me careening toward the edge of the runway on takeoff.

Any thoughts on what I could try next to narrow the problem down?

thanks,

Bill Womack

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I got the Bronco a few days ago, and while I'm adoring its looks and the depth of systems modeled, I'm having issues with controlling it. Specifically, the pitch and roll is so sensitive that the tiniest flick of my wrist on the stick will yank the plane up and down or side to side.

In searching the forums here I don't see anyone else posting with this particular issue, so I assume it's my setup that's causing the problems. I've got an inexpensive Logitech joystick that I'm using because it's ambidextrous (with my setup, the stick has to go on the left side of the yoke, and most sticks are made to conform to the right hand). My FSX axis settings for pitch and roll have been disabled in the FSX controllers configuration, and I'm using FSUIPC to map the axes and calibrate them. I've tried playing with the slope settings in FSUIPC, going as far as -10, but the stick is still as twitchy as ever. Curiously, the same stick and settings in my other planes reacts normally.

In my attempt to track down the problem, I've tried assigning the controls using the FSX default assignments (no change in sensitivity) and assigning my Saitek yoke to the pitch and roll in FSUIPC, which gave a little relief but not much. At this point, it still feels like I'm trying to balance a ball on the head of a pin to keep it flying straight and level. For that matter, rudder input is fairly exaggerated as well, with even a slight pressure on one pedal or the other sending me careening toward the edge of the runway on takeoff.

Any thoughts on what I could try next to narrow the problem down?

thanks,

Bill Womack

Do You use any modified startup situation Bill ?

Try with the one supplied with the Bronco. I´m not sure that it helps, but it could be.

Also check fuel and station loads.

All realism sliders should be to the right and autorudder off.

Also check that in the FSX controller menu that all axis has max sensivity and none or only very little nullzone.

Finn

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Also,, I have found my default flight (other than FSX default) caused me a great headache, until I deleted it, then situations and nulls, returned to normal... hope this helps.

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Thanks, guys. I double-checked, but I've been using the default startup situation. I tried using the one that came with the Bronco, but the controls were still as twitchy. It's a head-scratcher, this one.

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Strange. It can be a bit twitchy right after take-off, especially when you are used to flying the 737NGX just before switching to the Bronco, but once the speed picks up it's stable and easily controlable. I'm not using FSUIPC, though, just normal untweaked FSX controls.

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It wallows around at slow speed I have found too. Once you get the IAS above around 150 or so clean, I have found it tightens up. I also found you have to keep the airspeed up on final to stop it wallowing around. Like all new aircraft, it takes time to get used to.

Andrew

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I have the same problem using FSX Gold and Prepar3d 1.2. Have carried out all the mods suggested with no effect. I have 4 Carenado aircraft, A2a Spitfire, Justflight Lightning, Lotus L39 plus the default a/c all these can be trimmed to fly hands off within their given envelope, flying with Orbx and Horizon VFR scenery.

Great what you have achieved with the Bronco, however it is very unstable on my system and am somewhat disappointed as I would love to able to fly it as intended.

Would value any advice to help my problem.

Roy

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I got the Bronco a few days ago, and while I'm adoring its looks and the depth of systems modeled, I'm having issues with controlling it. Specifically, the pitch and roll is so sensitive that the tiniest flick of my wrist on the stick will yank the plane up and down or side to side.

I have the same issue as Bill, and I also have a Logitech set-up--although mine is a G940. I'm happy to see that the coming update should take care of this.

In any case, the Bronco is one of my favourite aircraft, and I love the interactive checklists! I wish all FSX aircraft had them.

Joel

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I have the same problem using FSX Gold and Prepar3d 1.2. Have carried out all the mods suggested with no effect. I have 4 Carenado aircraft, A2a Spitfire, Justflight Lightning, Lotus L39 plus the default a/c all these can be trimmed to fly hands off within their given envelope, flying with Orbx and Horizon VFR scenery.

Try adjusting your Elevator Trim Effectiveness to make it less sensitive and allow for finer trimming. Just go to the OV-10B folder (FSX/SimObjects/Airplanes) and open the aircraft.cfg. Look for the line "elevator_trim_effectiveness" in the [flight_tuning] section and change it from 1.0 to something like 0.7 or even 0.5. That should increase your ability to find a stable trim. You can also do that for the rudder and the aileron trimming, if necessary.

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Gentlemen,

Of course you can modify what you want on your system.

But I like to mention that the flight model is made by a highly skilled developer with the help of the original OV10 documentation and tested by real OV10 pilots.

We all know that FSX is not perfect but I was told that regarding the Bronco we come pretty close to the real thing.

Since the release date John has perfected the flight model more and it will be part of the coming update.

Please give that one a try before changing it again. Any change in the aircraft.cfg might have more effects than you can oversee.

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Tweaking the trim effectiveness isn't a matter of messing with the aircraft's realism properties or flight model, but rather a method of adapting all that realism to one's own hardware. It only controls how fast the trim moves on any given control input. On some hardware this can be way too fast so that you can only do very rough trimming attempts that will never lead to a stable flight attitude and will render the trim more or less useless, while you can have very fine and proper trimming with hardware that has its own mappable trim wheel, for example. There can be quite extreme differences between different input devices and that cfg-value is a means to get them to play along nicely. That's all.

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Absolutely right, Jigsaw.

For realism sake there ought to be a way of actually defining control or aircraft response so that one could set up the controls to precisely mimic the aircraft simulated - however the only constant that one might use is time, and even that is affected in FSX by the proportional response curve driven by the fps meter.

The only vaguely consistent setup comes from matching VC controller input to actual controller movement. Only then can one come close to realising what the developer intended, No controller in the sim market has a configurable movement to match the precise `throws` of he real device simulated - don't know the range of stick movement in a Bronco, but it is considerably greater than the range of motion in almost all desktop devices.

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My experience flying the Bronco initially, it was very unstable in all axis's, understood that it was a "pre production" model with updates to follow. However as holding a pilots licence for the last 40 years, flying twins, not a Bronco unfortunately I feel that this a/c is far from correct on my PC compared to others, Carenado Baron,C337, A2A spitfire etc. therefore with the help of the SDK Bible I have tweaked the Aircraft Configuration File,(something I have never needed to do before) giving a much more realistic performance.

I have to say that you have created very exciting sim and I am looking forward to further updates allowing many more interesting flying hours.

Keep up the excellent work.

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My experience flying the Bronco initially, it was very unstable in all axis's, understood that it was a "pre production" model with updates to follow. However as holding a pilots licence for the last 40 years, flying twins, not a Bronco unfortunately I feel that this a/c is far from correct on my PC compared to others, Carenado Baron,C337, A2A spitfire etc. therefore with the help of the SDK Bible I have tweaked the Aircraft Configuration File,(something I have never needed to do before) giving a much more realistic performance.

I have to say that you have created very exciting sim and I am looking forward to further updates allowing many more interesting flying hours.

Keep up the excellent work.

It´s fine if You are happy with Your own tweaks....

Just note that adjustments on one particular variable most often will wreck something else.

Tweaking of the flight model files are definitly not something for the normal user.

Our Bronco flight model has been developed by one of the most experienced experts, with reallife experience in aerodynamics.

The flight model has also been tested by a realworld Bronco pilot and the data used has been obtained from some very reliable sources like NASA.

Any tweak in this regard will offcourse make it impossible to give any kind of support.

Some notes on the flight model: http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/50970-bronco-advance-flight-mechanics-low-speed-flying-characteristics/page__view__findpost__p__345439

Finn

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  • Developer

Tweaking the trim effectiveness isn't a matter of messing with the aircraft's realism properties or flight model, but rather a method of adapting all that realism to one's own hardware. It only controls how fast the trim moves on any given control input. On some hardware this can be way too fast so that you can only do very rough trimming attempts that will never lead to a stable flight attitude and will render the trim more or less useless, while you can have very fine and proper trimming with hardware that has its own mappable trim wheel, for example. There can be quite extreme differences between different input devices and that cfg-value is a means to get them to play along nicely. That's all.

Just a word of caution: Those factors in the [tuning ] section are just factors on a give set of function in FSX. If you set trim effectiveness to 0.5, all it does it multiplies the effectiveness by 0.5. Sure that gives you softer reaction with each click but at the extreme end of the trim range it also gives only halve the effectiveness which can mean you may run out of trim.

If all your controls are set up correctly and you are using the full sensitivity with a small deadzone, the one change that I did was:

pitch_stability = 1.10 //1.0

That just adds about 10% of inertia in pitch movement and a little less pick up of lift from AoA change. For me that cured he ongoing pitch corrections I needed before.

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I have spent years trying to gain the realistic flight characteristics of the "Piglet" Bronco, and Had just recently got it right, or close to it, I have found that it is NOT the cfg file that is the problem, it is Flight Simulator... i.e. by slight modification to a jet you can make it hypersonic.... that is just not right, nor fair. In reality driving the Bronco is easier than driving a car (once you know all the bells and whistles). The aircraft rolls down the runway (The engine has zero torque or gyro impedence she does not slide left or right, she goes where you aim her nose. when you reach 89mph she lifts cleanly from the earth (weight dependent), their are only 3 other high performance airframes that are more difficult the Beech B200, the Beech B18, and the Cessna 208B, Yes I have checkflights in all of those... so guys keep in mind that these gentlemen here @ aerosoft have an extremely impossible job when they create these aircraft, and it is NOT their fault, the must utilise the tools and guidelines that microsoft has laid down.... If you want the real thing... well the South Americans have quite a few for sell... Only around $500,000.00 bucks. and I do believe the Luftwaffe still has a couple for sell. Nasa has 3 they go up for auction on june 25th of this year. The only negative I would say about this aircraft is she was a SWEAT BOX, the air circulation system was a joke.... But at least they built a way to releave ourselves :excellenttext_s:

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Aha! a new feature for the update - a working pee tube!

It'd be the best thing ever in simulation since... erm... since,,, the Dreamfleet ATR flushing toilet!

Just don't forget the splashback effects... :bigdrink_s:

And then there's a female pilot option - videos would have to be uploaded to WeeTube

Oooh flightsim porn! :excellenttext_s:

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Alexander, I got 1600+ hours (300 of those as backseater, 60 as instructor) in the Bronco, quite a few of those over indian country.

Now I an a novice in FSX, I actually bought it because of the Bronco. I know the people who fly the one Aerosoft modeled and I am honored to say I shook the hand of the most of them. They are very good people, I think the best source of info on the Bronco. When I saw they were behind it I knew this would be okay.

Bought FSX, bought the Bronco, bought an Saitek X52 and installed all with default (aerosoft adviced) settings. Now I got no idea what is the best standard for FSX but I found the aircraft pretty accurate. Most certainly not "hyper sensitive". If anything it is a bit tame for the low drag, low weight config we got now. Pitch is perfect, roll is perhaps a bit lazy, yaw is okay but it seems to act rather late and I will experiment a bit with the joystick settings for that. At low speed with wheels out it's not perfect, but I understand the limitations as explained by Aerosoft on that

You mentioned some other aircraft you compare it to. Some are civil twins, some are WW2 single engine fighters. Now I will not challenge your knowledge, but they got nothing to do with a CAS aircraft. The civil ones need to be safe and the single engine fighters need to be fast and be able to handle high speed G. The Bronco is designed for a very wide speed range, very low altitude (in moist warm air), high drag/high torque, high AOA, almost exactly the opposite of all (!) the aircraft you mention. Keep ih mind the wing shape it has. That's nothing like anything you mention.

So my experiences are almost the opposite of what you found. If you are ever in Texas I'll be glad to sit next to you and show you what I see and what I think is okay. For now I thing Aerosoft and the guys of the German Wing got it right. Very right.

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  • 3 months later...

This is really embarrassing, but since I brought up the control sensitivity in the first place, I thought it only fair to announce that I'm a doofus. For years, I've been using FSUIPC's controller sensitivity "slope" settings to fine-tune my controller axes, and yet I've always been dissatisfied with the results. No matter how I tweaked, the elevator axis (and ailerons, to a much lesser degree) seemed too "twitchy". The problem was magnified in the Bronco, to the point that I couldn't enjoy flying it.

At the end of my rope last week with a different plane, I tried seeing what would happen if I changed my slope settings from negative numbers to positive. This is where the embarrassment kicks in. As soon as I did that, the axes smoothed out instantly -- even for the Bronco! Apparently, I've harbored a completely mistaken notion of how the curves worked in the slope editor. Now that I've been set straight, I'm having no issues at all with how the Bronco flies - it's like getting a whole new plane.

It proves the old adage that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And in my case, that knowledge was tiny indeed. Consider the problem resolved as far as I'm concerned.

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