Jump to content

Quick question Pre-open carb heat or not?


fjsflight

Recommended Posts

Fly in icing condition has rain and temp is between 0 - 3C,but not see any ice on leading wing and engine get normal,should i PRE-turn on carb heat? Or saw engine get some wrong like power reduce then turn on?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Carb ice should ONLY occur under conditions of low power, or reduction in power.

Rather than repeat ourselves please research the forum using common search terms for the subject you need information on - I've even supplied images of the reason why the Rotax in this aircraft is NOT susceptible to carb icing in normal use in the real world, and both Marcel and I have discussed the propensity for real-world icing and it's impact on developer decisions in the functions and cause:effect cycle in this model. You are NOT the first person to ask about this and there is so much information floating about the forum that you can grab a cup of coffee and spend an evening learning. No sim required. :D

As for the conditions you describe, you would be well advised not only to put carb heat on, but also to get the hell out of there as you are in IFR conditions, in known icing. You are so outside the normal operating parameters of the Katana that if you lived, they'd take your license away for such incompetence. Your flight planning and preparation would be so suspect as to require censure! :big_boss_s:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, you turn on carb heat whenever the risk of carb icing is present - and in the environment you are in there, that means now, not prior to power reduction..!

You have a manual, please read it. It's a .pdf file so you can even search it if reading is troublesome:

Manual 3Emergency Procedures

is what is needed here.

Try `carb` as the search term, same as suggested for these forums.

I asked you to search the forums as I don't think there is any need to repeat the advice already given and you've come back with another question already asked. If you won't take the advice, then what is the point of asking? And from our point of view, what is the point in answering..? The information here in the forums covers everything you need to know - what carb icing is, why it occurs, how it occurs, what is specific to the Rotax-engined Katanas, even how the real carb heat works on this aircraft and the real experiences of real-world pilots ! And pictures! How can you possibly ignore that resource?

You've bought the most sophisticated GA aircraft for FSX. Please do it - and yourself - justice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Few hours ago i ask has PPL friend about carb icing,seem carb icing not big deal(problem).

Just if hear like engine has like "Cough"voice mean engine inlet has icing then turn on carb heat can solve it.

In addition if see becoming any icing condition can pre-turn on it.

Manual i was reading before,but this katana has too much different than other GA in fsx,so i still study other knowledge about fly.

Anyway thanks Evans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Deputy Sheriffs
please research the forum using common search terms for the subject you need information on

and this is not so easy due to a bug in the forum software: just typing keywords into the search field on top of each page results only in posts where the keyword can be found in the "Topic Title". Even using the Advanced Search works only when typing the keyword AND checking the button "Display results as posts"

So we all should be carefull when pointing others to the seach function ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Few hours ago i ask has PPL friend about carb icing,seem carb icing not big deal(problem).

Just if hear like engine has like "Cough"voice mean engine inlet has icing then turn on carb heat can solve it.

In addition if see becoming any icing condition can pre-turn on it.

Manual i was reading before,but this katana has too much different than other GA in fsx,so i still study other knowledge about fly.

Anyway thanks Evans.

No that is completely incorrect. The other topics ALSO provide the real indicators of the onset of carb icing, and why it is VITAL to recognise the potential for carb icing BEFORE it occurs and take appropriate measures. Waiting for the engine to cough is stupid advice. The aircraft is equipped with ANTI-ice not DE-ice. You need to read the other topics then you will understand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and this is not so easy due to a bug in the forum software: just typing keywords into the search field on top of each page results only in posts where the keyword can be found in the "Topic Title". Even using the Advanced Search works only when typing the keyword AND checking the button "Display results as posts"

So we all should be carefull when pointing others to the seach function ;)

Really?

I typed `icing` in the search box above, changed the search topic from `This Topic` to `This Forum`, and went straight to the discussion on the icing effects and why the aircraft should not be flown in them.

Next, I typed `carb heat` and changed the search topic to `Forums` and instantly pulled up every single topic on the subject that I was referring to in my replies to our OP above.

I did not need the advanced search facility.

The search terms work perfectly... when used properly. Which is why I even suggested the terms for our OP to use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Deputy Sheriffs

That's exactly what i wrote: It only finds posts where the keyword is part of the topic title. Otherwise it should also list this topic here. So if you woul like to see ALL posts about "icing" you have to use the advanced search as I described before. And this was not the case in the older ip.board versions. But this bug has already been discussed in the ip.board forum.

Just to show you what I mean:

1. just typing "icing" in the search box above and selecting "Forums":

search1.jpg

Do you see the topic we are at the moment?

2. Using the advanced search as desrcibed:

search2.jpg

Now you see our topic in 1st place as it is the most recent one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you missed my point. After you type the search item in the box you click on the `Forums` heading to the left of the green search instruction which provides a drop-down menu for the selection of a variety of options.

If I've provided both the term AND the instruction, any further ineptitude reflects on the user, not the advice. And provides valuable input on the likely provision of guidance to that user.

My choice of search terms, suggested in the previous replies, was based upon incompetent use of the search box. I assume that most users are incompetent until they prove themselves otherwise - Saves disappointment, and I can only be pleasantly surprised...

:excellenttext_s:

Again, there is absolutely no need to use the advanced search tool.

But this is NOT a discussion for this topic... please take it to somewhere where someone cares. I'm leading horses to water. You seem to want to discuss the ass.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As i saw icing situation in fsx,when temp close to 0C,saw IAS back to 0,altimeter not move,MP&Tachometer slow lose power,as like manual wrote,then can turn on carb icing.

In the discussions has 3 pages,i thinks don't need adhere to talke about "search" function.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right, you have once again not taken the advice, not read the topics, got it completely wrong, and simply don't want to learn...

NOW you are confusing engine intake icing with pitot icing (Katana not equipped with pitot heater); do not understand the relationship between icing and temperature and humidity (it has nothing to do with ambient temperature); and have mis-read the manual (which specifically explains why you need carb heat whenever the risk of icing is present).

Significantly, EVERY SINGLE ONE of these blunders is covered in the topics already here. The one's you won't read.

Good luck in you use of the Katana, I've added you to my `ignore` list and you won't be getting any further help from me..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know why you so mad,you always thinked i not read another discuss about icing or carb heat,even i was already read about it also i saw you post about icing with humidity chart. And not everyone has aviation or mechanical background,so that's it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know why you so mad,you always thinked i not read another discuss about icing or carb heat,even i was already read about it also i saw you post about icing with humidity chart. And not everyone has aviation or mechanical background,so that's it.

Dont mind a snave.. he is just plain rude person.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

So is this Snave guy a paid employee of Aerosoft or any developer of the Katana? Or a volunteer? Let's hope a volunteer, I would be deeply disappointed if anyone would employ someone so obtuse and unnecessarily rude to provide support to their paying customers. Yes, information on this is indeed spread out through the forum, and can be researched elsewhere online, but instead of taking a whole paragraph trying to berate and belittle paying customers why not just spend the words and posts on just answering the questions and leaving it at that? There's no need for what you are doing, none at all. I've seen this from you on several forum posts and it's ridiculous, because, yes, do not fear sir, I actually do search extensively and fully read posts pertaining to questions I have. Calm down and if you are going to say anything, just answer the question asked. Easy. Like this:

@ fjsflight, if you are still looking for some answers and still checking the forum- Anytime carb icing conditions can be expected, just turn on the carb heat. If you are getting typical carb ice indications, like a gradual loss in power, turn on the carb heat. Just make sure that you monitor your engine instruments and more specifically the temperature as to not exceed the red. If you intentionally fly into icing conditions you know you will need the carb heat, but keep in mind what else you will lose, as a Katana is not meant for flight into known icing conditions. As was said before the Katana doesn't have pitot heat, so that will ice over quickly and you will not get an accurate airspeed indication. If you accidentally fly into icing conditions, same applies, but you want to consider doing a 180 and exiting the conditions or descending. To help with carb icing try doing a high power descent, just watch your airspeed and temperature gauges. So, to answer your original question yes, you can turn carb heat on early, but you need to be careful and monitor your systems as to not exceed anything.

fjsflight hope this helps, I have quite a few hours in a real Katana and am a CFII so if you have any other questions just ask.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will agree with you though Snave, this is by far the most sophisticated GA aircraft for FSX and you do need to do it all the justice you can on your own. It is honestly one of the best if not THE best aircraft I have in my FSX hangar, and out of around 20+ payware addon aircraft, that says a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will agree with you though Snave, this is by far the most sophisticated GA aircraft for FSX and you do need to do it all the justice you can on your own. It is honestly one of the best if not THE best aircraft I have in my FSX hangar, and out of around 20+ payware addon aircraft, that says a lot.

I also have a lot of other addons (GA and airliners, a.o. the 737NGX), but I only have this one installed... It's perfect for my kind of flying. Low and slow, no AP (which I had to get used to but it's sooooooooo much nicer to do the flying on your own!), great view on the outside world. Awesome plane. The best EVER imho.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So is this Snave guy a paid employee of Aerosoft or any developer of the Katana? Or a volunteer? Let's hope a volunteer, I would be deeply disappointed if anyone would employ someone so obtuse and unnecessarily rude to provide support to their paying customers. Yes, information on this is indeed spread out through the forum, and can be researched elsewhere online, but instead of taking a whole paragraph trying to berate and belittle paying customers why not just spend the words and posts on just answering the questions and leaving it at that? There's no need for what you are doing, none at all. I've seen this from you on several forum posts and it's ridiculous, because, yes, do not fear sir, I actually do search extensively and fully read posts pertaining to questions I have. Calm down and if you are going to say anything, just answer the question asked. Easy. Like this:

Excellent answer. That repetitiously reiterates the same information already supplied in amplified form. The mistake you make is thinkignn that just because YOU like to see something repeated ad nauseum, so does everyone else. There are many forum visitors here who have been with this aircraft and this topic since the early days and unlike you are pig sick of itinerant users whose sole qualification for ownership is the depth of mummy or daddy's wallet. Indeed, excessive slack has been cut these idle, incompetent cretins because of the presence of `simple` mode in the package.

What a shame we cant press a button and make all users sophisticated, sparing the rest of us the repetition and the banality.

But now you're here, we can rely on you to roll out the platitudes. Let's see how long you hang around, the proficiency of the advice you offer and the boredom threshold before you cave like so many others have done, crushed by the absolute inanity of pandering to the lowest common denominator.

By now I expected we would be discussing cost ratios of various engine settings, the TBO of the Rotax versus the lower overhaul cost and the more complex innards of the menu options and their implications for `proper` flying, with a large number of users who have used, learned and applied themselves to the product they purchased.

Instead we're still feeding the bog-basic information when it's all here to be read. Repetitively.

Did I mention repetition?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And THAT'S exactly what I'm talking about. Sure, we can get into the deeper more technical information, but yes, it is already here, and indeed elsewhere (the manual, Google, and even Diamond itself has a free .pdf of the DA20 manual on it's website). All I'm saying is instead of shooting down and basically making a fool out of someone who is new and inexperienced like this user was and admitted to be, you can just give some basic information and be nice enough to attach the links to the posts you refer to, and also say "hey, in the future you can also just type in the search box what you are looking for, and these links will get you started." That's all. It's nice and sincere and gets your point across that they should look for themselves while also providing a starting point for them to begin perusing the forums on their own. Yes, it is repetitive, I definitely won't argue with that, I've been around and I've seen it and it does get cumbersome and annoying to see the same information spread over the forum in different ways with the same basic answer/area of answer.

As for the magic button to make users more sophisticated and more self-sufficient, I promise you I wish the same thing, in life as well. But it's not going to happen, so we have to put up with it. Either way, the point is to have any questions you have answered, or any topic you want discussed, and just telling them to look for themselves is wasted words, and gets nothing done.

I would gladly talk anytime about cost ratios with power settings, how the add-on relates to typical usage in real life, including TBO's, ESPECIALLY the Rotax. You can't deny an engine with a 1500+ TBO. Why not throw in a talk about the competition with Continental's and even Lycoming? All other stuff aside, I'm down to throw on some decent discussions if you are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We started with some excellent dialogue about the relative merits of the Rotax engine, and I have several hundred hours behind different variants, so feel somewhat qualified to have the discussion...

Just not again.

And therein lies the rub: The presence of the repetitive has occluded the interesting; diluted the discerning; obfuscated the skillful.

...otherwise you would have noted it, perhaps re-invigorating those old discussions with your fresh insight.

I therefore suggest advising everyone to scour and devour the forum before committing asininity to the ether is actually now proven by the very words you use to deny the necessity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By now I expected we would be discussing cost ratios of various engine settings, the TBO of the Rotax versus the lower overhaul cost and the more complex innards of the menu options and their implications for `proper` flying, with a large number of users who have used, learned and applied themselves to the product they purchased.

We started with some excellent dialogue about the relative merits of the Rotax engine, and I have several hundred hours behind different variants, so feel somewhat qualified to have the discussion...

Just not again.

And therein lies the rub: The presence of the repetitive has occluded the interesting; diluted the discerning; obfuscated the skillful.

I have not in fact seen that discussion. I didn't even try to look for it. Why? Because you offered it as something you wanted to discuss, making it seems as if it has not yet been discussed, as you can see in the above top quote. So, trying to be nice and start a reasoned and educated discussion, I offered that we could start one. And then you turn around saying oh, it's already been discussed and will be repetitive and boring.

So you do what you've done this whole discussion, used the same structure of beating around the bush, throwing in your best vocabulary words, and not actually seeing the point or attempting take make things more interesting by joining me in a discussion, just finding a way out of it. So, in reality, you have become the very type of person you complain about, repetitive and boring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Privacy Policy & Terms of Use