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Is the Mac Mini a contender for FSX sweetness


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Hi there,

I'm researching a new machine primarily for FSX and had been poring over various options, when I noticed a review included the mac mini.

So, I was wondering whether the new 2.5GHz i5 mac mini (bootcamping to Win7) would make a good option?

I'd be very keen to hear peoples thoughts/experiences.

cheers,

Chris

P.S. There's an upgrade option to 2.7GHz i7, so also interested to hear whether that makes a tangible difference to FSX.

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Hi Chris, I have no direct experience running a Mac, although working with Photoshop every day I have been very close to getting myself one. The main reason being the total integration of the OS and the hardware. There's a lot to be said for the builder of a computer to be running their own OS. Of course pound for pound, Macs are said to be faster machines than PC's, although I question whether that is still the case these days. There is of course the build quality and aesthetics of a Mac, which IMO shouldn't be overlooked. However, on the downside, and I can only offer my own opinion here and provide you with some food for thought. Firstly there's the cost of buying a Mac, they are more expensive than a PC for a comparable performance machine. Then there's the cost of upgradeablity of a Mac compared with a PC and I'm unsure whther it is as easy, don't know, but I suspect it is easier to upgrade a PC than a Mac, no doubt someone will have an opinion on that one. A big concern for me would be the availability of add ons for a Mac, I would suggest you do some research and see whether sceneries and aircraft from different publishers are available in the Mac OS. Depending on how you run FSX you must remember that most people will be running FSX on PC's, and this is a big one for me, because being on the forums and interacting with guys around the forums and asking advice about OSs and hardware and soforth, is a very big part of my hobby. If you run a MAC I would ask whether you would not feel a little on the outside of the party? Certainly getting advice on forums about anything to do with a MAC is going to be restrictive for obvious reasons. The biggest consideration I would suggest you ask yourself is, how much you want to spend and how much performance you can achieve running FSX by spending that amount. I believe if you do that, by getting lots of advice around the forum, then you will likely be better off getting a PC ;)

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Hi there Rocky,

Costwise I'm looking around the £750 region, if there are good-for-FSX PCs in that area it'd be awesome to hear experiences/examples.

I guess on upgradeability you're right, it does rule out going to (say) i9 in future. I used to do the home-build thing as far back as AthlonXP days, but I found every alternate CPU upgrade involved a new mobo and case and usually memory as well - essentially replacing the guts of the machine.

On my current laptop (unibody Macbook) I have Fusion with an XP VM (and unsurprisingly it's far too slow to run FSX adequately), whereas the FSX machine would be dual boot, so from what I can tell it's running Windows directly on the hardware and the Mac OS isn't involved (or shouldn't be).

I think the biggest area of doubt is the GPU, as it ships with a Radeon 6630M with only 256MB of memory! and that sounds not much better than my ageing XFX 9800GTX card, particularly with 1Gb cards becoming established these days.

cheers,

Chris.

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Hi Chris, I did make a bit of a booboo in my lasat reply as I had forgotten that the Macs can now run Virtual windows. Anyway, I think the bottom line is if you really want decent performance from FSX, using the latest add ons, you have got to pay for it. I would suggest you would have to get the i7 and also upgrade the GPU, so once you have done that, you could have got a reasonable PC. Here are some costs of components similar to mine. But of course prices are now dropping because of the introduction of the newer CPUs.

i7 950 3.06Ghz (very overclockable) : £200

Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R motherboard: £125

1 x Samsung 1TB Sata hard drive: £45

GTX 470 1Gb GPU: £180

6Gb DDR3 ram 2x3 Mushkin: £125

Corsair 650W TX series PSU: £75

CD drive: £20

Tower case: £40

Total: £810

You could get cheaper components, I'm sure, but these were just the first I lay my hands on.

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You're a total star there Rocky,

If I'm building, I can probably reuse my existing CD and Hard drive (Samsung 1TB HD103UJ)

The PSU is only 550W so that will probably need to go.

Time for a spot of shopping around.

cheers,

Chris.

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Glad to help. You're right about the PSU, if I were you, it may be worth pushing out for an 850W, not necesary for what is here but it will help at any time should you need to upgrade stuff. It would be adviseable to check out the newer sandy bridge CPUs also.

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For FSX the minimum processor you should be looking at is the i5-2500K or if you can stretch it then go with an i7-2600K. Note the very important "K" at the end of the processor number. The GTX560 (or even the 550) is a good choice for the graphics processor on a standard 23 inch monitor. 8GB of DDR3 in the form of 2x4GB modules is recommended and of course Windows 7 64bit.

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For FSX the minimum processor you should be looking at is the i5-2500K or if you can stretch it then go with an i7-2600K. Note the very important "K" at the end of the processor number. The GTX560 (or even the 550) is a good choice for the graphics processor on a standard 23 inch monitor. 8GB of DDR3 in the form of 2x4GB modules is recommended and of course Windows 7 64bit.

Konrad, I'm looking at upgrading. I have the i7 950, I guess if I go for the 2600K I will need a new MB. Is this the case? Also, from what you say, am I right in assuming that the new 2600K is dual channel and that is why you recommend 2 x 4Gb?

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Interesting feedback there, here's what I'm looking at so far:

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R (as you had - I've had several GA's over the years and they've been pretty good)

CPU: Intel i7-950 Quad-Core Processor (3.06 GHz, 8MB Cache, Socket 1366)

Mem: Corsair 2*4GB 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 'Vengeance'

GPU: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 1280MB AMP Edition

PSU: Cooler Master RS750-ACAAE3-UK GX-Series 750W

Case: Cm Storm Mid Tower Scout

totalling £704.34 (although I need to choose a cooler)

The 2600K is an extra 50 quid, so might be tempted.

And It does look like 2600k needs a different mobo...

http://www.techradar...k-917571/review

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Hi Chris, if you can go for the 2600K then go for it. If you decide to stick with the i7 you need to have three sticks of RAM as it is triple channel. ie 3 x 2 Gb 1600Mhz. As for a CPU cooler I can THOROUGHLY recommend the hyper 212 plus, it is excellent and amazingly well priced.

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Konrad, I'm looking at upgrading. I have the i7 950, I guess if I go for the 2600K I will need a new MB. Is this the case? Also, from what you say, am I right in assuming that the new 2600K is dual channel and that is why you recommend 2 x 4Gb?

Yes you will need a mobo for the 2600K. Should you upgrade now? Certainly not. Wait for X79/LGA2011 coming late 2011 or early 2012. There will be 3 new cpu's (a quad core and 2 hex cores) along with quad channel DDR3, PCIE3 and other yummy goodies.

Yep, the i5-2500 and the i7-2600 are both dual channel DDR3 tied to the P67 chipset. Unlike the i7-950 which is the older triple channel DDR3 tied to the X58 chipset.

Could Intel have made it any more confusing? No.

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Interesting feedback there, here's what I'm looking at so far:

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R (as you had - I've had several GA's over the years and they've been pretty good)

CPU: Intel i7-950 Quad-Core Processor (3.06 GHz, 8MB Cache, Socket 1366)

Mem: Corsair 2*4GB 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 'Vengeance'

GPU: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 1280MB AMP Edition

PSU: Cooler Master RS750-ACAAE3-UK GX-Series 750W

Case: Cm Storm Mid Tower Scout

totalling £704.34 (although I need to choose a cooler)

The 2600K is an extra 50 quid, so might be tempted.

And It does look like 2600k needs a different mobo...

http://www.techradar...k-917571/review

The i7-950/X58 combination is pretty old tech there CJ (like as in late '09). And the DDR3 config is wrong - should be 3x2GB (not 2x2) as X58 is triple channel. Rather go for the i5-2500K/P67 or the i7-2600K/P67 combination with 2x4GB DDR3 modules as mentioned. The GTX460 is also second generation now - a GTX560 or 570 is a better investment.

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Hi gents,

Been comparing components and prices over the weekend and here's the list I now have:

Motherboard - Gigabyte SKT-1155 Z68X-UD3H-B3 Motherboard: £126.99, http://amzn.to/oX4woH

CPU - Intel Sandybridge i7-2600K Unlocked Core i7 Quad-Core: £237.92, http://amzn.to/qDz5V9

Memory - Corsair CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 Vengeance: £47.60, http://amzn.to/qFbVWd

PSU - Cooler Master RS750-ACAAE3-UK GX-Series 750W 80 Plus Power Supply Unit: £77.96, http://amzn.to/rseRld

Graphics - Zotac ZT-50301-10M GF GTX 560Ti 1GB Graphics Card: £176.21, http://amzn.to/qYRLIx

Case - Cm Storm Mid Tower Scout Case: £63.96, http://amzn.to/nDScaU

Heatsink - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus Cooler: £27.01, http://amzn.to/pTtVkY

This lot totals up at £757.65, which seems pretty good. I may shop further for a slightly lower-priced case, to squeeze inside the budget (and leave something to set aside for new Aerosoft goodies!)

I did read that Asus 2600k boards rank slightly better than Gigabyte, but I'm more familiar with the GA kit/layout/docs/etc.

I also switched from the 470 to the 560 graphics card, as you recommended Konrad. A comparison I read claimed roughly a 15% improvement and interestingly 26% less power consumption. Strangely, Amazon are selling the "Zotac" 560 for £8 less!

cheers,

Chris

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Hey Chris, that sounds like a fantastic price!! Obviously the way to go. I should have done more homework, I just assumed that kind of rig would have been out of your suggested £700 budget. It looks so tempting I may well take your lead.

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Hi Chris

Now we're talking! Only thing about your choice of mobo is that it does not have the newer graphical UEFI BIOS which a lot of the other manufacturers are now offering. Personally, I would prefer UEFI considering how long this new machine will last you but by no means is this a showstopper and there is no difference in performance between BIOS and UEFI.

Only thing missing really is an SSD but that is always something you can drop in at a later stage. Not sure what your HDD setup will be but it is always a good idea to get FSX onto its own HDD. Given how cheap 1TB HDD's are perhaps you should pick one up? Just make sure it is a 7200rpm model with SATAIII. Don't go external for an FSX drive.

Of course the right hardware is only half the story - you need to install and configure both the OS and FSX correctly. Best place for info is here or just give us a shout in the forum.

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It looks so tempting I may well take your lead.

Don't give in to temptation there Howard. Moving from an i7-950 at 4GHz with triple channel DDR3 to an i7-2600K at 4GHz with dual channel DDR3 is NOT going to blow your socks off, that is for sure. X79/LGA2011 is what you should be tempted by.

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Cheers Konrad, that has always been my fear. I think you're right. I will wait on your advice and see what the new year has to offer. What is UEFI Konrad?

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UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) is the next generation replacement for the rather geriatric BIOS (Basic Input/output system). Check out the wikipedia entry.

Asus and some others have just recently released motherboards featuring UEFI. Gigabyte is holding out for now for whatever reason - being conservative I guess.

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UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) .

Oh, of course it is :huh: Do these motherboards have the function to OC from a specific GUI on the desktop? I have seen something like this on Youtube, where OC is simply a matter of tweaking sliders? Or am I way off?

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Overclocking from the desktop has been possible (if inadvisable) for a while now so this capability has nothing to do with the new UEFI.

You can have a look at the new ASUS UEFI

Anand explains it all much better than I ever could.
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Cheers Konrad,

From checking case prices I see my current (Antec Nine Hundred) is still commanding a decent price, so assuming the motherboard mountings aren't radically different, I'll probably give it a thorough clean and reuse - and put the cash saved to a new SATA 3 HDD.

A new 128Gb SSD then seems like a good 'incremental upgrade' option to ask Santa for. ho ho ho.

Chris

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Nothing wrong with that case Chris and the new motherboad mountings will be identical as they're both standard ATX form factor. If your 9800GTX fit in there then the 560 will too. And don't forget to pick up some quality thermal paste.

The WD Velociraptor 600GB is not a bad choice for a dedicated FSX HDD with the equivalent sized SSD at almost triple the price.

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Thanks Guys,

I was thinking of initially planting both OS and FSX partitions on the HDD and then 'swapping' the FSX partition over to the SSD later. Thankfully these days of Win7 there's no faffing with fixed swapfile partitions.

The Velociraptor is probably a shade beyond the budget at this stage. But could be a target for the next step up.

@Konrad, Good to hear about the paste, I think I've only used the supplied 'goo' previously.

cheers,

Chris

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