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So, where oh where, is Simon?


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And there we finally reach consensus.

Nobody wants the inanity of a repetitive and banal forum where the same dumb questions are asked again and again (and yes, there are `dumb` questions - nearly always those that have been answered before... often) ,

Yet at the same time it's considered vindictive, not helpful, to `remind` those who perpetrate such crimes against humanity that the search function - and their own intelligence - is a better source for information and the most helpful and useful advice rather than relying on the kindness of others, before their abrogation of personal responsibility blights the medium.

Yet at the same time those who contribute to those forums - and thus provide the backbone of the `quality quotient` - are not prepared to share responsibility... and we're back to the age-old debate of `hand up` versus `handout` (and my stance on that is very clear!)

When those `others` are JUST as entitled to a pleasant forum experience with high-end discussion, complex debate and technical exchanges.

When those others are the primary source of that discussion, debate and technical problem-solving

When those others, small in number, provide the primary entertainment for the majority

When those others should NEVER, EVER have to find excuses for the expectation of intelligent discussion in a forum of a developer and publisher that primarily makes mid- to high-end sophisticated products - and already has a newbie forum ideally located and suited for the dumb questions.

To get back to the original discussion, the reasons that forum quality depletes is ENTIRELY down to the departure of (or decline in contributions by) those who provide the core of the support, entertainment and quality. And the abject failure of those who generally moan the loudest about the decline to step in and fill the gap.

It's the old `everybody thinks somebody should do something about it, just not them` argument, and it's pathetic (in the correct meaning of the term).

Years ago, the most vibrant, informative and entertaining forum in sim-dom was Flight One. They didn't tolerate fools, they could be very terse with those who patently bought a sophisticated product then expected someone to read the manual to them, they would interpose as soon as a topic started going downhill, but left the topic open when some mild condemnation was being directed at some cretinous type who couldn't wipe his own arse without help from mummy.

Then, some girlie over there who handled marketing but had no clue overnight imposed sanctions imposing duties of `niceness` on all contributors.

It took less than a week for most of the volunteer helpdesk - those who provided 90% of the support, 78% of the intellectual debate and 100% of the vibrancy in the forum to vacate.

Go to their fora now... :lazy_s:

Nice doesn't work.

I don't agree that it shouldn't, but I accept that it doesn't. From there it is really quite intellectually stimulating to take advantage of those who betray intellectual incapacity through laxity and laziness (as opposed to those who simply aren't up to it because they can't even spell IQ) to, as the old saying goes, "Serve as a Warning to Others".

Think: What we never see are posts from those who were going to post some dumbass question, but were persuaded instead to use the search function, read The Ferreting Manual or simply apply themselves to the product and figure it out because they were scared they might get picked on. And in so doing, obtain the satisfaction of self-improvement. On the one hand the argument might be that it's sad they were dissuaded from posting by fear or concern. On the other, the rest of us have been spared and the forum has gained from their absence. And they've still found their answer. Tough world, innit?

What only a few here realise is, the absence of such posts is a major contribution to overall quality of the forum... :flame_s:

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To get back to the original discussion, the reasons that forum quality depletes is ENTIRELY down to the departure of (or decline in contributions by) those who provide the core of the support, entertainment and quality. And the abject failure of those who generally moan the loudest about the decline to step in and fill the gap.

It's the old `everybody thinks somebody should do something about it, just not them` argument, and it's pathetic (in the correct meaning of the term).

Think: What we never see are posts from those who were going to post some dumbass question, but were persuaded instead to use the search function, read The Ferreting Manual or simply apply themselves to the product and figure it out because they were scared they might get picked on. And in so doing, obtain the satisfaction of self-improvement. On the one hand the argument might be that it's sad they were dissuaded from posting by fear or concern. On the other, the rest of us have been spared and the forum has gained from their absence. And they've still found their answer. Tough world, innit?

What only a few here realise is, the absence of such posts is a major contribution to overall quality of the forum... :flame_s:

Strangely enough I find myself agreeing, and I'm just as guilty as many others. It can get a bit tedious reading the same old questions day in, day out, and yes it's pure laziness on the part of the poster asking those questions without first searching to see if the answer is already out there.

The thing I always bare in mind though Simon, is this and many other fora are multilingual, and many people only have a rudimentary grasp of the English language. English is my first language, and I know a little German, and even less French. I couldn't go to a German forum and search for the answer, just as I couldn't, in all fairness, write my question in German. I'm too damn lazy to learn those languages, or I'm guilty of thinking that those 'others' should learn MY language. Most of the people from other countries DO learn English, and DO try to ask their questions in English, and I feel that has to be admired. Yes, some of the questions are blatantly from the English speaking community, but to be honest I never know without checking profiles, and who does that all the time?

I believe I'm a tolerant person, and as such if I come across a 'dumbass' question I just don't post an answer. Or if I feel the person asking may be from another country I'll maybe find the answer and direct the person to it. At all times I try to be an Ambassador to my own country, be polite, courteous, and respectful. It makes no difference to me personally, and it costs nothing. I agree it may not add anything to the 'quality' of the fora, but at least I know I haven't upset anyone. More often than not, I don't post anything, I read a lot. If I can't find my answer, or I've missed it, then I will ask a 'dumbass' question in the hope that someone will point me in the right direction. I treat questions from others in the same way. Too 'nice' maybe? What does it matter that I'm 'nice'? Better to be nice and someone respect me for that, than be what some might class as rude or intolerant.

SOMEONE needs to ask the 'dumbass' question in the first place, for there to be an answer. Providing of course the question isn't already answered in the products manual, which I must say, are pretty poor most of the time. Once the question has been asked, and answered, THEN it's the responsibility of anyone else wanting the answer to that question, to look for it first.

"To get back to the original discussion, the reasons that forum quality depletes is ENTIRELY down to the departure of (or decline in contributions by) those who provide the core of the support, entertainment and quality. And the abject failure of those who generally moan the loudest about the decline to step in and fill the gap.

It's the old `everybody thinks somebody should do something about it, just not them` argument, and it's pathetic (in the correct meaning of the term)."

Agreed. This makes no sense at all. Why moan about the absence of something, and expect someone else to do something about it? It would've been much more productive to mention the lack of substance, and then actually start a debate of some kind that would contribute something that would fill the gap you felt was missing. Not exactly my cup of tea, but then I don't moan about the lack of content either.

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If what you are saying is that you intend playing a more informational role in forum activities and will start providing cognitive assistance then yes, I'm all for it. But with that ever widening base also comes the risk of repetitiveness, inane questions and frankly foolish comment. Are you prepared to take a stand and actually assist in the long term..? Proselytising is only semantics unless it is transformed into action.

For the repetitive and inane we have (with all due respect) Shaun, Mathijs and the rest of the crew. They are paid to "slog it" through with whomever comes Aerosoft's way. For both the highly technical and frankly foolish we have yourself.

For everything else we have.... oh, wait there is nothing else.

On what basis exactly do you want me to give up my time and commit to providing cognitive assistance in the long term? On the basis that it would be doing Aerosoft's job for them - providing support and pr when they are sleeping? Ya right.

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And therein lies the problem... the forum is what YOU make it, just as much as it is what others contribute.

Given your level of contribution, might I suggest that you practice what you preach.

And keep quiet.

We are all the better for it and then you don't have to give up your precious time, nor us waste ours reading your `non-contribution`.

Bonus!

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We are ALL the better for it? What makes you think anyone here would agree to having you as their mouthpiece?

Oh wait, I get it! Mathijs unmuzzeled you so you simply took that as tacit approval to carry on as always. And it only took what, 5 or 6 posts to get you spouting insults again.

You are as predictable as my 5 year old daugther.

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We are ALL better for it? What makes you think anyone here would agree to having you as their mouthpiece?

Oh wait, I get it! Mathijs unmuzzeled you so you simply took that as tacit approval to carry on as always. And it only took what, 5 or 6 posts to get you spouting insults again.

You are as predictable as my 5 year old daugther.

Got my eyes closed when the reply comes :)

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In my sincere opinion, Snave for some reason has been allowed to be a gratuitous "Intelligence bully" for quite some time ... Christ if he types inane and banal one more time I'm going to throw up, he has as the OP said seen off a lot of Aerosofts customers with his intellectual bullying and it really got on my nerves why this was allowed, obviously he has some preferred status with those that own this site ... genuine customers could go give a hoot, this was Snave talking.

I just don't get the guy? if I wanted to read Shakespeare I'd go to more appropriate forums, this is a bloody flight sim forum where we are supposed to be a community and not let one member run rife ###### on another as he fancied becuase he's a better Wordsmith.

Anyway ... I'm sure some folk like this in a circus kinda way ... its almost like, what will he say next and who will he insult next ... but its just a gimmick.

I don't want him banned and I'm still not sure if I'll stay? ... I just wish he'd grow up.

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Proof his alias is nothing more than mis-spelling.

...should be Shallow.

I rest my case.

You sir wallow in shallowness and love being the Troll ... I've said it before and I'll say it again, what you need to do is get laid.

I'm out of it ... insult away you tool.

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In my sincere opinion, Snave for some reason has been allowed to be a gratuitous "Intelligence bully" for quite some time ... Christ if he types inane and banal one more time I'm going to throw up, he has as the OP said seen off a lot of Aerosofts customers with his intellectual bullying and it really got on my nerves why this was allowed, obviously he has some preferred status with those that own this site ... genuine customers could go give a hoot, this was Snave talking.

I just don't get the guy? if I wanted to read Shakespeare I'd go to more appropriate forums, this is a bloody flight sim forum where we are supposed to be a community and not let one member run rife ###### on another as he fancied becuase he's a better Wordsmith.

Anyway ... I'm sure some folk like this in a circus kinda way ... its almost like, what will he say next and who will he insult next ... but its just a gimmick.

I don't want him banned and I'm still not sure if I'll stay? ... I just wish he'd grow up.

I thought you'd gone? Or were you driven to return by the banality and inanity of so many other fora? :hi2_s:

And we're back to the initial topicality.

What is wrong with demanding a qualifying level of intelligence?

Especially when it benefits the many, rather than the few... after all, you're still here.

Is it because you're intelligent? Or stupid? :blowbubble_s:

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And we're back to the initial topicality.

What is wrong with demanding a qualifying level of intelligence?

Did the lessons Hitlers rule never cross your mind when you tried to control the IQ quota of this site?

Seriously Snave ... what is your problem?

I know you've been booted from other flight sim sites and here is pretty much your last grasp on things ... a sort of safe sanctuary ... but you have been called out for it more than once now mate on here ... BTW I'm not totally against you, but when others uprise I'll support them.

Christ almighty ... in your sig it says ... Getting it right, being blunt but honest ... blah blah bla ... in that case I'm sure you wont mind me saying you are an absolute internet bully and weasel.

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Proof his alias is nothing more than mis-spelling.

...should be Shallow.

Who's being the lowest common denominator now? Perhaps it is in fact YOU who should consider whether you are a part of the solution or a part of the problem. Can you remember the last time you pointed any of that intellect your own way? Been a while I'll bet.

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Who's being the lowest common denominator now? Perhaps it is in fact YOU who should consider whether you are a part of the solution or a part of the problem. Can you remember the last time you pointed any of that intellect your own way? Been a while I'll bet.

Apparently he's almost Perfect.

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There's nothing wrong with being a wordsmith, the same as there's nothing wrong in being a musician, artist, or philosopher. If one person is guilty of being an internet bully or weasel, then others writing less artistic insults are just as bad, would't you agree?

I would never insult a person for their intelligence, the same as I wouldn't insult a person for being less intelligent, or disabled in some way. Just because someone has the gift of words, it doesn't mean that it's open season to try and insult them. But having said that, I doubt it makes any difference to Snave anyway, he's more than capable or writing his own replies, which I happen to like most of the time.

The way I look at things, if the world was full of people with the same intelligence level as me, it would be a sorry place to live, there would be no progress, and we'd all be travelling in horse and carts still. Without people of higher intelligence, the human race would not progress, pure and simple.

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Good for you, it looks like you are submissive and very understanding.

But please realise we are not all like you and we each have something to offer the community without certain individuals taking a dump on our perceived intelligence.

In the words of Pink Floyd ... good manners cost nothing ... And this Pig is as rude as it gets. I'm maybe being harsh here? but if Snave were in my circles he'd have a good few bloody noses for some of the stuff he blurts out ... I guess there is something to be said for the Bravery of being out of range and keyboard warriors ... in his case ... no swearing.

Thank You.

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  • Aerosoft

Good for you, it looks like you are submissive and very understanding.

But please realise we are not all like you and we each have something to offer the community without certain individuals taking a dump on our perceived intelligence.

In the words of Pink Floyd ... good manners cost nothing ... And this Pig is as rude as it gets. I'm maybe being harsh here? but if Snave were in my circles he'd have a good few bloody noses for some of the stuff he blurts out ... I guess there is something to be said for the Bravery of being out of range and keyboard warriors ... in his case ... no swearing.

Thank You.

Yes, I can follow you there. But it's like bad TV, nobody is forcing you to see it. It's dead easy never to see snave again on the forum:

post-43-0-09363800-1313591658_thumb.jpg

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I'm surprised that Mathijs has not locked this. I will not get into a tit for tat argument Simon, but I feel I will add my money's worth. I have only been simming seriously for a period of just over a year. During that time I have spent every single day flying, learning and chatting on forums. My first experience of a forum was here. A newbie without the knowledge of forum protocol or indeed any deep knowledge of simming. My first post was replied to by yourself. It was curt and unnecessarily aggressive in it's tone. My initial thoughts were, "I'd better stay away from here if these are the kind of morons dishing out so called friendly advice." Not long after, I read another reply from a newbie who was asking for some friendly help. You were downright bloody rude, aggressive and completely out of line with him. To the point where I actually felt very sorry for the guy. I won't slag you off, as that is not my way, but I will share in pointing out some of the more unpleasant characteristics that you appear to possess. A forum is for everyone, so unless you want to squirrel yourself off in a corner somewhere and chat to only the godly experts whose opinions you share, I respectfully suggest you add tolerance and understanding to your repertoire of characteristics. We all have to learn and I know it can sometimes be a drag reading the same old questions, but for god's sake, with all the problems in the world you need to put things in perspective and get a life. EDIT: It's a shame, because when you do show a small element of generosity with your knowledge it is both very interesting and helpful.

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Yes, I use it a lot... :glare_s:

What?? And miss an opportunity to ensure others get it right too? I find that hard to believe.

It's a shame, because when you do show a small element of generosity with your knowledge it is both very interesting and helpful.

I agree with this statement. There is no dispute about Simon's level of knowledge about all sorts of stuff. No dispute at all.

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I respectfully suggest you add tolerance and understanding to your repertoire of characteristics.

I'm not having a go at anyone here, but where is YOUR "tolerance and understanding"? Yes Simon maybe could be a little more tolerant and understanding, but then he wouldn't be Simon.

Good for you, it looks like you are submissive and very understanding.

But please realise we are not all like you and we each have something to offer the community without certain individuals taking a dump on our perceived intelligence.

Definitely NOT submissive I'm afraid, but very tolerant up to a point.

No everyone isn't like me, that would be a disaster. But it's no good having a go at someone just because they are different. Yes I include SImon in that, of course I do, but you can't berate someone for doing something you don't like, and then do it yourself, that's hypocritical isn't it?

As for giving someone a bloody nose for stating their opinion, well that's just thuggish. That would be like a government settling disputes in a boxing ring, simply "not cricket" I'm afraid.

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I'm not having a go at anyone here, but where is YOUR "tolerance and understanding"? Yes Simon maybe could be a little more tolerant and understanding, but then he wouldn't be Simon.

Definitely NOT submissive I'm afraid, but very tolerant up to a point.

No everyone isn't like me, that would be a disaster. But it's no good having a go at someone just because they are different. Yes I include SImon in that, of course I do, but you can't berate someone for doing something you don't like, and then do it yourself, that's hypocritical isn't it?

As for giving someone a bloody nose for stating their opinion, well that's just thuggish. That would be like a government settling disputes in a boxing ring, simply "not cricket" I'm afraid.

Hey Tiger, I think with respect you misunderstood my reply. I was not slagging Simon off, I was merely hoping to draw his attention to his own shortcomings. If someone points out certain unpleasant characteristics about myself, I would go out of my way to ask myself some hard questions and change my attitude. Please read my post, in particular my intial experience with Simon. Anyway, I'm not the kind of guy to get into fisty cuffs with people who have a bad attitude. However, I will stand up to a bully to protect someone who I think doesn't deserve to be berated. I appreciate your post Tiger. It's possible to be intolerant and at the same time be pleasant and courtious.

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As for giving someone a bloody nose for stating their opinion, well that's just thuggish. That would be like a government settling disputes in a boxing ring, simply "not cricket" I'm afraid.

Your right of course and its something I might have done in my teens but not any-more, it still does not excuse Snaves gratuitous bullying though ... oh and as far as government's go, they go far worse in settling disputes and often go as far as starting wars were people actually get killed over them, we on the forums are far better behaved a lot of the times ... but I digress :)

Mathijs is right in his suggestion of blocking Snave and I was wrong to let him irritate me so much ... I guess I felt more for the new guys Snave likes to bully and insult over the few insults he's thrown my way and also those that don't have skins as thick as a Rhino who are better able to deal with him ... I still don't 100% understand why he gets away with it, but I'm going to let it go ... life is too short, there is more to be gained by staying here and blocking him than there is by staying away from Aerosoft completely.

Cheers.

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life is too short, there is more to be gained by staying here and blocking him than there is by staying away from Aerosoft completely.

Cheers.

:excellenttext_s:

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@Rocky and M31: Agree to both those posts, and understand totally. I just don't let things get to me that much anymore. Unless it actually affects me physically, people can say what they like. It just goes in one ear and out the other if it doesn't interest me. I like a reasonable argument though, but people who don't have an open mind, irritate me. You can't be so single minded that anything anyone else says is automatically wrong.

I listen to all sides of the argument, and then form my own opinion. My opinion right now is you're all bananas :eyepop_s::boingy_s::D

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