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skulleader

Why we don't have more informations concerning the Trim tabs ?

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Hello :hi2_s:

I have a little question for the developers of the Diamond DA20-100 Katana 4X (FSX), please I found that it's not easy to see the modifications of the Trim tabs, like you I use my mouse to up or down these Trim tabs but the problem is that I dont' have a good visuel when I move these Trim tabs with my mouse.

It is not possible to display in this "popup window" the degrees or number positif or negative that we apply ?

This I passed 2 hours with these Trim tabs for obtain a good flight but I don't want touch anymore because I afraid to passed once again many hours for obtain a good comportment of my plane.

I dno't know if you can added these informations about these Trim tabs, but I'm certain that if you could add the informations in degrees or with one number it's would more easy to see how many degree we change, up or down these Trim tabs.

In your manual you write that for up or down these Trim tabs the only solution is the mouse, yes it's a good idea but I think that the information in degree or by number it's miss, no ?

With any aicraft of FSX sometime I pass my mouse over on switch or trim and quickly a little texte appear, I found that is very important for obtain these informations so why not add the information in your popup window concerning the Trim tabs ?

Please can you inform me if in the futur with one little patch this solution is avalaible ?

You've have created a wonderful and great addon but I found that add the number or degree about the modification for the Trim tabs it's very necessary, no ?

I'm very sorry for my poor English and I hope that my idea it's possible to add to this addon because I really love this aircraft :blush:

Here a little idea which show us this a great precision the modifications added to the Trims Tabs :lightbulb_s:

5844108995_08a42c51c6_o.jpg

A great thank's in advance for all and best regards, Olivier. :cheers_s: :goodjob_s:

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Hello :hi2_s:

I have a little question for the developers of the Diamond DA20-100 Katana 4X (FSX), please I found that it's not easy to see the modifications of the Trim tabs, like you I use my mouse to up or down these Trim tabs but the problem is that I dont' have a good visuel when I move these Trim tabs with my mouse.

It is not possible to display in this "popup window" the degrees or number positif or negative that we apply ?

This I passed 2 hours with these Trim tabs for obtain a good flight but I don't want touch anymore because I afraid to passed once again many hours for obtain a good comportment of my plane.

I dno't know if you can added these informations about these Trim tabs, but I'm certain that if you could add the informations in degrees or with one number it's would more easy to see how many degree we change, up or down these Trim tabs.

In your manual you write that for up or down these Trim tabs the only solution is the mouse, yes it's a good idea but I think that the information in degree or by number it's miss, no ?

With any aicraft of FSX sometime I pass my mouse over on switch or trim and quickly a little texte appear, I found that is very important for obtain these informations so why not add the information in your popup window concerning the Trim tabs ?

Please can you inform me if in the futur with one little patch this solution is avalaible ?

You've have created a wonderful and great addon but I found that add the number or degree about the modification for the Trim tabs it's very necessary, no ?

I'm very sorry for my poor English and I hope that my idea it's possible to add to this addon because I really love this aircraft :blush:

Here a little idea which show us this a great precision the modifications added to the Trims Tabs :lightbulb_s:

5844108995_08a42c51c6_o.jpg

A great thank's in advance for all and best regards, Olivier. :cheers_s: :goodjob_s:

I thoroughly agree with you Olivier, that's a very good suggestion.

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I thoroughly agree with you Olivier, that's a very good suggestion.

A complete fuss over nothing, and in the wrong forum to boot.

IRL we don't have indicators either. We adjust, go fly, land, adjust and go fly again. The tabs are ground adjustable and occasional use only. You don not adjust these often, only to make compensating adjustments for other engineering changes such as re-rigging or major maintenance.

It is simply a complete irrelevance to place so much emphasis on something so utterly banal and unimportant.

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Hello Snave,

Yes certainly you can say that it's just an accessory, banal and unimportant but I think that add this otption can be interresting but you know it's just a little idea not obligatory.

Just a reflexion of my mind...

We must stay cool because sometime one idea or talk about one product can help some virtual pilot ^^

Bye, Skull...

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Hello Snave,

Yes certainly you can say that it's just an accessory, banal and unimportant but I think that add this otption can be interresting but you know it's just a little idea not obligatory.

Just a reflexion of my mind...

We must stay cool because sometime one idea or talk about one product can help some virtual pilot ^^

Bye, Skull...

The propose it in the right place. And with fewer words.

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Hello :hi2_s:

I have a little question for the developers of the Diamond DA20-100 Katana 4X (FSX), please I found that it's not easy to see the modifications of the Trim tabs, like you I use my mouse to up or down these Trim tabs but the problem is that I dont' have a good visuel when I move these Trim tabs with my mouse.

It is not possible to display in this "popup window" the degrees or number positif or negative that we apply ?

This I passed 2 hours with these Trim tabs for obtain a good flight but I don't want touch anymore because I afraid to passed once again many hours for obtain a good comportment of my plane.

I dno't know if you can added these informations about these Trim tabs, but I'm certain that if you could add the informations in degrees or with one number it's would more easy to see how many degree we change, up or down these Trim tabs.

In your manual you write that for up or down these Trim tabs the only solution is the mouse, yes it's a good idea but I think that the information in degree or by number it's miss, no ?

With any aicraft of FSX sometime I pass my mouse over on switch or trim and quickly a little texte appear, I found that is very important for obtain these informations so why not add the information in your popup window concerning the Trim tabs ?

Please can you inform me if in the futur with one little patch this solution is avalaible ?

You've have created a wonderful and great addon but I found that add the number or degree about the modification for the Trim tabs it's very necessary, no ?

I'm very sorry for my poor English and I hope that my idea it's possible to add to this addon because I really love this aircraft :blush:

Here a little idea which show us this a great precision the modifications added to the Trims Tabs :lightbulb_s:

5844108995_08a42c51c6_o.jpg

A great thank's in advance for all and best regards, Olivier. :cheers_s: :goodjob_s:

This is NOT how things work in real life. Do you steer a car by reference to an indication of how many degrees right or left of center the steered wheels are? Of course not! It's done by feel and feedback from the view out the windshield. Granted, trim tabs are secondary flight controls, but the concept is the same. In real life (and in the sim), trim is set to null out a control pressure to hold a given attitude. As soon as airspeed and/or (usually) power is changed, trim changes. Again, like driving, it's done by feel and feedback from the view outside the window. OK, in IMC in an airplane, feedback from the instruments.

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This is NOT how things work in real life. Do you steer a car by reference to an indication of how many degrees right or left of center the steered wheels are? Of course not! It's done by feel and feedback from the view out the windshield. Granted, trim tabs are secondary flight controls, but the concept is the same. In real life (and in the sim), trim is set to null out a control pressure to hold a given attitude. As soon as airspeed and/or (usually) power is changed, trim changes. Again, like driving, it's done by feel and feedback from the view outside the window. OK, in IMC in an airplane, feedback from the instruments.

Hello Herman,

Ok I well understand your explanations, so we can say that everything is ok. You know It's was just a little proposition but if it's not like in the reality so everything is good.

I wish you to pass a good day and a great thank's for your post and your explanations...

Have a nice day, best regards. Olivier.

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This is NOT how things work in real life. Do you steer a car by reference to an indication of how many degrees right or left of center the steered wheels are? Of course not! It's done by feel and feedback from the view out the windshield. Granted, trim tabs are secondary flight controls, but the concept is the same. In real life (and in the sim), trim is set to null out a control pressure to hold a given attitude. As soon as airspeed and/or (usually) power is changed, trim changes. Again, like driving, it's done by feel and feedback from the view outside the window. OK, in IMC in an airplane, feedback from the instruments.

Spot on Herman, and that's precisely what the trim tab adjustment and the absence of controlling measurement is intended to promote. These are completely different adjustment surfaces to `normal` in-flight adjustable trim tabs, serve a different function and are handled in a different way. Adjust, test flight, adjust. Satisfied. Part of the total aviating experience alongside sucking on the pitot, dipsticking the oil tank and not losing the gas cap...

Our OP couldn't see that, but now he has been educated.

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Hello Olivier,

As mentioned by others before: I want the add-on to be handled like a real aircraft and to offer digital readouts only if they are also available in real life. ;)

Don't worry about your english by the way.

All others: Sorry guys, I removed some postings to keep the thread on topic. It is not only time consuming for me to read all that stuff, but will make it very difficult for other readers to get the informations they need... would be nice if you can avoid off topic disscusion and of course rude words on other forum members in future... thanks to everyone who takes me seriously. :)

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Hello MarcelFelde :)

There's no problem from my part, I well understand that in the reality the informations or assistance that I wanted it's not available, so no problem and I very sorry for my mistake :blush:

A great thank's for your answer and once again I very sorry for this conversation out of control, you have delete the bad posts and it's better like this.

Once again a great thank's for all and best regards.

Olivier :goodjob_s:

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Hello :hi2_s:

Please can you inform me if in the futur with one little patch this solution is avalaible ?

Here a little idea which show us this a great precision the modifications added to the Trims Tabs :lightbulb_s:

5844108995_08a42c51c6_o.jpg

A great thank's in advance for all and best regards, Olivier. :cheers_s: :goodjob_s:

OK guys I know that is how it is done in real life...... BUT this is not real life.. so why NOT ??

In real life you adjust trim on the plane. I dont see that this is being simulated here. You have to adjust a popup that hangs in the air like a leave in the wind.. Is this realistic/real life scenario.. No I dont think so. So stop throwing the "real life" excuses. If you have to adjust a popup here it is not properly simulated like real life so why not give what the guy ask for. So if you can get away with a popup simulating trim adjustment you just as well can add a numerical value..

Skulleader give me some time, i will see what I can do for you as I also have this requirement. Just havent had the time to get around doing this. I suspect that L:vars has been used to code this so it might take a little longer to get hold of the code. I really have not even tried to find out so I dont know, but you never know.. We just might be lucky to do it ourselves

:funkychick_s:

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OK guys I know that is how it is done in real life...... BUT this is not real life.. so why NOT ??

In real life you adjust trim on the plane. I dont see that this is being simulated here. You have to adjust a popup that hangs in the air like a leave in the wind.. Is this realistic/real life scenario.. No I dont think so. So stop throwing the "real life" excuses. If you have to adjust a popup here it is not properly simulated like real life so why not give what the guy ask for. So if you can get away with a popup simulating trim adjustment you just as well can add a numerical value..

Skulleader give me some time, i will see what I can do for you as I also have this requirement. Just havent had the time to get around doing this. I suspect that L:vars has been used to code this so it might take a little longer to get hold of the code. I really have not even tried to find out so I dont know, but you never know.. We just might be lucky to do it ourselves

:funkychick_s:

OK, by your thinking, should we not also remove the sucking on the pitot tube? The problem of the `lost` gas cap? Engine wear?

Your argument is facile. You clearly don't understand WHAT is being simulated and WHY the choices are as they are. It's been explained several times and still you don't `get` it...

What is it that you hope to achieve? Something that is less realistic..? Contradicts many of your other peripatetic musings in these very fora, wouldn't you say?

The very essence of these tabs is that they have to be flown to gauge the effect of their adjustment. Simple. Concise. Correct.

You want to add complication, waffle and inexactitude.

Good luck.

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OK, by your thinking, should we not also remove the sucking on the pitot tube? The problem of the `lost` gas cap? Engine wear?

Your argument is facile. You clearly don't understand WHAT is being simulated and WHY the choices are as they are. It's been explained several times and still you don't `get` it...

What is it that you hope to achieve? Something that is less realistic..? Contradicts many of your other peripatetic musings in these very fora, wouldn't you say?

The very essence of these tabs is that they have to be flown to gauge the effect of their adjustment. Simple. Concise. Correct.

You want to add complication, waffle and inexactitude.

Good luck.

yeah another snave remark.. go play with your yourself..!

Lucky I can do what I want, because I can..!

:ididit_s:

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yeah another snave remark.. go play with your yourself..!

Lucky I can do what I want, because I can..!

:ididit_s:

Yes, you can certainly do what is wrong because you can. I can drive my car on the wrong side of the road, ride my bike well over the speed limit, or fly my plane in conditions which are clearly not suitable for the equipment or the aircraft.

But that isn't the question: The question is whether you should... it has been explained by those who are your betters why you ought not.

Given that, it's you who are playing with yourself. Your self-aggrandising choices to ride roughshod over realism, truth and exactitude in simulation.

Good luck.

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Yes, you can certainly do what is wrong because you can. I can drive my car on the wrong side of the road, ride my bike well over the speed limit, or fly my plane in conditions which are clearly not suitable for the equipment or the aircraft.

But that isn't the question: The question is whether you should... it has been explained by those who are your betters why you ought not.

Given that, it's you who are playing with yourself. Your self-aggrandising choices to ride roughshod over realism, truth and exactitude in simulation.

Good luck.

:funny_s::lookatthat_s:

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Snave, you are a rude person. Why is this tolerated?

Personally, I find Snave's remarks entertaining and informative. He certainly can be blunt at times, but if your skin is so thin as to be offended by remarks such as these, you wouldn't last long in the world of real world aviation. As an experienced pilot, I find the developer's logic for the trim tab adjustment to be perfectly sound. As has been stated before, in the real world, you'd bend the tab a little, fly it, and adjust again as necessary. You will never get a light aircraft to fly perfectly straight because there are just too many variables involved. These planes simply have to be flown hands on. If you have the skills to come up with an application that allows you to adjust the tab to a thousandth of a degree, so be it. Just realize that you are loosing out on some of the immersiveness that has been designed into this great product. What I find much more rude than Snave's responses are demands to the developer to "just give us what we want". It is apparent that a LOT of thought has been put onto this product. Marcel has been extremely responsive in explaining his reasoning and regardless of your thoughts on what should be included in a product, you should respect his vision. Otherwise, feel free to design your own addons.

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As has been stated before, in the real world, you'd bend the tab a little, fly it, and adjust again as necessary. You will never get a light aircraft to fly perfectly straight because there are just too many variables involved. These planes simply have to be flown hands on. If you have the skills to come up with an application that allows you to adjust the tab to a thousandth of a degree, so be it. Just realize that you are loosing out on some of the immersiveness that has been designed into this great product.

nowone said it is the objective to ever fly the plane in a straight line.. Just wanna have easier method to adjust, fly adjust, fly adjust, This way you will see that the adjustment has been carried out because we dont have fingers to feel if we made the adjustment a millimeter or a centimeter. This just give you a value and you will see that in this two centimeter popup area the "values" can differ by 10 000. (see below) So i wanna see if it changed from 137 to 187 or it changed from 137 to 250. Even with a slight slip of a mouse I can even put it too 250 but slight mishap can set it back to 137 and I will not even notice it unless I see the figure.. Kinda make it easier to see what is going on. or as you said, I wanna see to that thousands of a degree. What wrong with that..!

With only your eye you will not tell me which one is which one when I show you the two pictures only.. this merely replaces the living world feelings (see/feel/touch) that we will never be able to duplicate in a simulation no matter how hard you try..

So relax, it is not taking anything away from the plane. It is giving us a tool to properly see how much it was adjusted. that is ALL.

Different strokes for different folks..

The values is 5000 at top en -5000 at the bottom as indicated in picture below.

trims.jpg

if you want it, here is it. if you think it will spoil your immersion, dont download it. Easy as that. Use it, loose it or move on..!

http://www.mediafire..._indicators.zip

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So in real life nobody would - once their tabs are set right - check the angle with an angle-meter, maybe just to see what it is and so that you may give advice when asked?

Thanks a lot for the modification, I find it simply interesting, also because it is sometimes hard to really see (with my laggy mouse), how much you changed the tabs now or if they are back in their original position.

Thanks,

Stefan

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because it is sometimes hard to really see (with my laggy mouse), how much you changed the tabs now or if they are back in their original position.

That is also my MAIN reason as I cannot see with the eye what the adjustment was in some cases it can be even be slight negative when I wanted it to be slight positive.

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So in real life nobody would - once their tabs are set right - check the angle with an angle-meter, maybe just to see what it is and so that you may give advice when asked?

I've never seen this in real life (doesn't mean it doesn't happen & most of my experience is in heavy jets). Any advice given to owners of similar aircraft would be pretty much useless because each individual aircraft is going to fly slightly differently. There will be slight aerodynamic and weight differences due to imperfections in the manufacturing process. Depending on how the aircraft is operated, its flying characteristics will change over time. For example, an aircraft used extensively as a trainer will undoubtedly get "bent" during hard landings and other abuse typically dished out by student pilots. As a result, no two Katanas or 152s or 707s for that matter will ever fly exactly the same. This is the purpose of those trim tabs; to dial out those small (or sometimes not so small) differences in flying characteristics. In real life this process is something of a black art. I think this is what Marcel was trying to convey when he developed the FSX Katana. To my knowledge, no other addon has offered this feature. Marcel has easily given us the best representation yet of what operating a light aircraft is like in the real world.

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Marcel has easily given us the best representation yet of what operating a light aircraft is like in the real world.

absolutely true..

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but if your skin is so thin as to be offended by remarks such as these, you wouldn't last long in the world of real world aviation.

Apples and pears sir, I'm a firefighter so my skin will withstand the heat. And I'm a student pilot, however I never encountered any (Word removed), like the ones that seem to roam the forums here. Btw I like the Katana, it's the only plane I encountered that respond as in reality and which I'm able to fly like in reality.

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Apples and pears sir, I'm a firefighter so my skin will withstand the heat. And I'm a student pilot, however I never encountered any (Word removed), like the ones that seem to roam the forums here. Btw I like the Katana, it's the only plane I encountered that respond as in reality and which I'm able to fly like in reality.

Use of such juvenile language puts you firmly on the same pitifully low level as those people you so tediously refer to as (Word removed).

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