Jump to content

Carb heat = high CHT = engine self destruct


 Share

Recommended Posts

as we have been informed that the post below is not under problem / bugs /Issues it will not be handled a a possible bug and therefore we cannot rely on any constructive solution to the problem.

http://forum.aerosof...45313-high-cht/

As in my post 26 in the above link I listed my findings and tests and evidence and proof and whatever is required according to a snave.

So, up to yesterday I have flown 11 hours. Not once used carb heat. No problems. flown in weather not likely to encounter ice (Select clear weather in FSX: Temps 90F dewpoint 65F) as I am really sick and tired of this problem. Yes we might be stupid but we are not morons as implied by your other support staff and it is NOT some moronic excuse like bad pilotage etc that is being thrown at us all the times and YES I do have real flight experience and when I apply these basic fundamentals in this sim iro the carb heat usage then I do switch on the self destruct button in the katana simulation. I have yet to self destruct a plane in real life when I apply these exact principles...!

So after the end of yesterdays flight, I did run service and maintenance and did do change the oil and the oil filter for the first time at the end of the flight as I have just past 10 hours.(even though it was way before the first first oild changes should have been made) So oil and oil filter was brand NEW at the end of yesterday and it is also reflected as such in the data file of yesterday that I backed up so that I can have proof..!!

All flights for these 11 hours was with utmost LTC.. cruise figures MP=22 RPM 2100

here is summary of the data file up to yesterday. (yes I do make backups for this problem as I seem to need to have some evidence that we experience a problem)

[TIME]

TIME_FLIGHT=8.974167

TIME_ENGINE=11.105832

TIME_ENGINE_OVERHAUL=11.105832

TIME_AIRFRAME=11.105832

LANDINGS=29.000000

[CONDITIONS]

CONDITION_ENGINE=97.299684

[CHARGES]

CHARGE_BATTERY=19.830481

LEVEL_OIL=2.800000

LEVEL_LEAD_OIL_FILTER=0.000000

RESIDUES_OIL_FILTER=0.000000

TEMPERATURE_OIL_MIN=-15.000000

TEMPERATURE_OIL_MAX=18.300000

LEVEL_COOLANT=2.450000

=50.000000

LEVEL_LEAD_FUEL=0.262218

Then today I did a flight and experience carb icing. Forgot to change Temp: (Again FSX Clear weather Temp 62F and dewpint 48) MP was slowly going down to 20.

I did pull the carb heat knob as preventative measure. MP climbed slightly back to normal. MP22 RPM=2100 . 20 minutes later CHT was very close to red but not yet in red.

landed nearest airport. closed carb heat after landing. Shut down engine. CHT just touching red..

here is file after todays carb ice flight

[TIME]

TIME_FLIGHT=9.783334

TIME_ENGINE=12.006666

TIME_ENGINE_OVERHAUL=12.006666

TIME_AIRFRAME=12.006666

LANDINGS=30.000000

[CONDITIONS]

CONDITION_ENGINE=50.097403

[CHARGES]

CHARGE_BATTERY=19.866853

LEVEL_OIL=2.707361

LEVEL_LEAD_OIL_FILTER=0.030805

RESIDUES_OIL_FILTER=0.045098

TEMPERATURE_OIL_MIN=-15.000000

TEMPERATURE_OIL_MAX=18.300000

LEVEL_COOLANT=2.450000

=50.000000

LEVEL_LEAD_FUEL=0.359509

Marcel can you please explain to me how the engine can degrade just over 2% on 10 hours and the degrade almost 50% in one flight of one hour where carb heat has been used for about 30 minutes at end of flight when icing was experienced and immediate action was taken to land as quick as possible.

I tried to attached the two files but it says I do not have permission to upload the files.

Marcel, where can I email you the two complete data files..?

For comparison as suggested by jcmmg in the old posting under 'discussions".

Area flown all this time: PNW: Darrington/Bremmerton/Cushman/KORS/3W5

Weather used "Select "clear weather" in FSX: change Temps to 90F dewpoint 65F exept last flight that I forget to change temps was as is62F/45F.

NOT using REX / ASA etc.. use fsx weather engine.

System "windows7 ultimate 64bit. Quadcore Q9650 3ghz (std, no overclocking), GTX480 GPU.

FSX specs: FSX + Acceleration (fsx gold).

Addon scenery: FSX default and only all ORBX scenery. no other developer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi bliksimpie,

I have been to the flusi-conference yesterday and meet marcel. I talked with him exactly about this. He couldn't understand it, because using the CARB HEAT shouldn't have such a distroying effect to the engine. He promised to have a look at it. Further it happens (also in your case?) that, if the engine stopps in the air as a result of flying too long with CHT on max, the propeller brakes at the both ends. This should also not happen, said Marcel. And he said, the engine can get damaged because of a damaged propeller ( bad start on gras, tex)but not the other way around...

So, lets see, wether Marcel can reproduce and fix it.

Btw, Marcel: Nice to meet you and your wife!! :-)

Cheers, Stephan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doesn't seem to be a general problem. I just did a one hour flight with icing conditions (got some pitot and static port icing as well) and had carb heat on continously for more than half an hour. CHT stayed fine the whole time and the engine condition was fine afterwards:

CONDITION_ENGINE=95.921146

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doesn't seem to be a general problem. I just did a one hour flight with icing conditions (got some pitot and static port icing as well) and had carb heat on continously for more than half an hour. CHT stayed fine the whole time and the engine condition is was fine afterwards:

CONDITION_ENGINE=95.921146

yes that is right, it is not a general occurrence, but it is definitely happening to a number of us (trisager etc). Same as some people that get CTD's and most not..

Bottom line is that something is NOT right with our simulations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi bliksimpie,

I have been to the flusi-conference yesterday and meet marcel. I talked with him exactly about this. He couldn't understand it, because using the CARB HEAT shouldn't have such a distroying effect to the engine. He promised to have a look at it. Further it happens (also in your case?) that, if the engine stopps in the air as a result of flying too long with CHT on max, the propeller brakes at the both ends. This should also not happen, said Marcel. And he said, the engine can get damaged because of a damaged propeller ( bad start on gras, tex)but not the other way around...

So, lets see, wether Marcel can reproduce and fix it.

Btw, Marcel: Nice to meet you and your wife!! :-)

Cheers, Stephan

I have not even get a engine stop in midair. engine was still running and I landed safely, without any damage to prop ends etc..

I really hope Marcel can take a look for us at this. At least he is open minded and willing to go the distance to try and help us "Morons" that do not know anything about flight and dynamics of flight.

I am really glad you had the opportunity to talk to Marcel. What an honour it must have been to talk to such a guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love you too..!

See what I mean..?

If you don't understand HOW to report a potential problem, how do you expect anyone to reproduce it? Analyse it? or SOLVE it?

You really are your own worst enemy. If you could put your snotty attitude about me to one side for even a moment, you would see I am trying to HELP you. As I was in the other forum by discussing whether the problem is caused by mis-management by the user, rather than the system.

Have you yet provided ANY common ground upon which a decent review of the claimed issue might be concluded? No.

But I don't suppose we'll get anything like sense out of you now. You're just blind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you just plain dumb or what? I am not interested in support from you. dont you get it..

I am sure marcel will take the time to look at this when he have the time and until he can look at it I am more then OK to sit and wait till he can look at it and then I am sure me and Marcel will get to a point where he will list what he need and I will supply the info to him/the forum..

So please man, dont stress the small stuff. am sure there are other support you can attend to and you really do not have to spend time on this at all. Really no problem not to help here...

:cool3_s:

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

exact same here....

it harms the engine badly if i only just descending with 2260rpm and idle for too long..... (-> by data.cfg values)

otherwise the CHT gauge don't show to high temps

fsx +sp1+sp2 (acceleration not installed)

i can write my config spec.... but frenkly.... after the 20th user who write the same story (what Snave can't understand)

another thing:) if Snave have anything to do with the A2A Spitfire merlin engine testing....(engine worn problem) i don't have any more question here

Link to comment
Share on other sites

exact same here....

it harms the engine badly if i only just descending with 2260rpm and idle for too long..... (-> by data.cfg values)

otherwise the CHT gauge don't show to high temps

fsx +sp1+sp2 (acceleration not installed)

i can write my config spec.... but frenkly.... after the 20th user who write the same story (what Snave can't understand)

another thing:) if Snave have anything to do with the A2A Spitfire merlin engine testing....(engine worn problem) i don't have any more question here

So far FOUR users have reported this issue. Where are the other 16..?

You understand the scepticism when four very vocal complainants misrepresent, misjudge, misreport - and are just plain miserable?

Where are the FACTS? If there is common ground, only proper reporting will help Marcel find it. And it makes no difference whether I `understand` or not. Only whether you can explain yourselves satisfactorily.

So far, you can't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if anyone having this problem, please report what type of fsx is that he has... fsx +sp2 or fsx with accel (gold)

thanks:)

anyway... if Marcel solve this problem it would be fantastic.. if not i simply don't touch the carb heater knob anymore (gliding :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if anyone having this problem, please report what type of fsx is that he has... fsx +sp2 or fsx with accel (gold)

thanks:)

anyway... if Marcel solve this problem it would be fantastic.. if not i simply don't touch the carb heater knob anymore (gliding :)

Only problem is that I can only fly it in clear hot weather and cant use rainy weather at all otherwise I am forced to use carb heat at some stage.. then it is a "have to" use the reset function.. problem is your plane then never deteriorate as everything is set back to "new" and not only the engine, so the reset is also a bummer in this case, but at least it help. this issue kinda take that "something special" about the katana away as we cannot enjoy the katana to its fullest potential.

I dont think it is an "if".. I truely believe that marcel will give at a good shot at it and until such time that he can do it, I will just have to manage my weather /flying conditions to escape the ice and the follow on usage of carb heat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Marcel

I just though about something that might shed some light and I will see if I can get this up and running as I havent used it for a while, but this can be just the thing we need to be able to give proper evidence that it is not a case of not a case of bad pilotage,mismanagement, misrepresentation, misjudgement, misreporting or just being plain misarable..!<BR><BR>There is this awesome program that we can use. In the past I used it a lot when I debuged FSX stuff. It is called: AFSD

Advanced Flight Simulator Data (AFSD) is a test program the developer developed with the help and feedback of many FS aircraft designers (Ron Freimuth, Ian Kerr and some others) in order to investigate FS internal functioning. The originality of the program is that it simultaneously access and calculates sophisticated aerodynamical data from Peter Dowson's FSUIPC interface, aircraft binary (.air) and configuration (.cfg) files. AFSD is an external program that uses FSUIPC to retrieve some of the "inner guts" of the sim and display them for all to see, in real time, as the sim runs. It keeps track of dozens of variables.

The usage of this program can clearly show all the standard parameters to proof that it is not a case of bad pilotage as the results will be there for all to see as it is recording all things you do during the flight. Should produce some really eye opening information for some. At least with this program we can now show/proof that it is not a case of mismanagement, misrepresentation, misjudgement, misreporting but a serious problem somewhere that gives this anomoly.

marcel let me know if you need more info. This might shed some light for you on the probable 'funny" we experience.

The program can be found here:

http://hsors.pagespe...ge.fr/afsd.html

The other option would be to make a video of the entire flight where we reproduce the issue at hand. (currently very easy to replicate.. as it happens all the times. it is not a thing that happen only now and again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Waddayaknow... I continued my flight after the report yesterday and today I noticed that the CHT was quite high (not in the red zone though), after only flying about another half hour. I checked the data file and sure enough, my engine condition is down to 56 percent from the 95 % I had yesterday. I definitely didn't overrevv it. I kept RPMs around 2200 and MP at 22 for that short flight with carb heat on. So chalk me down as another guy who experiences the problem.

The only difference between those flights that I can think of is that I flew with high power settings when I didn't experience any degradation (25MP) but with a lower power setting when the damage occured (22MP).

p.s.: I'm using FSX SP2 with Acceleration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Waddayaknow... I continued my flight after the report yesterday and today I noticed that the CHT was quite high (not in the red zone though), after only flying about another half hour. I checked the data file and sure enough, my engine condition is down to 56 percent from the 95 % I had yesterday. I definitely didn't overrevv it. I kept RPMs around 2200 and MP at 22 for that short flight with carb heat on. So chalk me down as another guy who experiences the problem.

The only difference between those flights that I can think of is that I flew with high power settings when I didn't experience any degradation (25MP) but with a lower power setting when the damage occured (22MP).

p.s.: I'm using FSX SP2 with Acceleration.

at least we know now, that the fsx+sp2, and the another with acceleration working the same way (simple sp2/accel. using different engine core modelling as far as i know, but may be not related with the katana DEccusim engine modul)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only difference between those flights that I can think of is that I flew with high power settings when I didn't experience any degradation (25MP) but with a lower power setting when the damage occured (22MP).

Dont know what Marcel is busy with and what he have found and changed, but this part you mention, I can definately confirm. I have never flown with MP higher then 22 (apart from take-off) and I ALWAYS get this degradation of engine when I ran into ice and use carb heat. Never cruised at MP=25 so I dont know if it will produce same results. So I really cannot say that it might have something to do with it. This also might be pure co-incidence.. I am sure Marcel will shed more light for us on this shortly. At least I am pretty sure we will not wait 3+ months for "excessive engine degrading" to be fixed and released

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup! I don't want to confirm it too soon, but I did some flying with that test fix and with carb heat on all the time and at different power settings and so far no unusual damage to the engine. I'll keep testing to make sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, do that! I had absolutely the same experiences... All my flights with test-fix have been without any trouble. One flight (KORS-7S3) with more than 1hour Carb Heat on, because of icing directly after takeoff was without any damages... ;-) Landing with something about 210F... Powersettings: 2100rpm, 22-22,5mp...

Cheers, Stephan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where is the data file located, I tried to find it but could not locate it.

Thanks,

Mike Cameron

In Windows 7 it is here:

C:\Users\xxxx\AppData\Roaming\4X_DATA\Diamond DA20-100 'Katana'\data.cfg

replace xxxx with your username

the alternative is to use the search function in windows.

Start / search. : type in data.cfg and press go..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...