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AFS 2012...


janda

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  • Aerosoft

Have you looked at Outerra lately ?

http://youtu.be/MrlVSAiu4Ag

Oh yeah, we talked to them a few times. It's a great graphics engine, but we prefer to find an all-in solution, so graphics, physics etc in one package. Our experience with combining these kinds of things are not great. Even if you ask one of the partners to be the contractor they still tend to blame each other a lot when things do not work out.

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Oh yeah, we talked to them a few times. It's a great graphics engine, but we prefer to find an all-in solution, so graphics, physics etc in one package. Our experience with combining these kinds of things are not great. Even if you ask one of the partners to be the contractor they still tend to blame each other a lot when things do not work out.

But if you can't find and all-in-one engine, please consider Outerra. It would provide such a beautiful FS world!

http://www.youtube.com/user/cameni47#p/u/1/3zL-2jNdknQ

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2015 most certainly seems to be a better schedule!

Aerosoft is going to be one of the main distributors of Xplane 10, it is one of the biggest projects we are working on in the second half of this year. Not only the release itself, but we are also converting add-ons to Xplane, are doing new installers that can handle Linux Windows and Mac etc. It would not be right if we would now push a direct competitor to XPlane. So even if we would be working flat out on it, we would not say so right now!

We are first of all a content company, we make stuff and then export it to a platform (FSX, FS2004, XPlane, professional sims etc). So strange as it may sound, the moment we find a suitable engine, creating a new sim is not that hard. What you will see from Aerosoft later this year are smallish stand alone sims (also flight sims) that are just about one train, one train route, one aircraft type etc.We hope that with these smaller products we can get fresh users into the facinating world of simulation. We really need a new generation of users that are willing to tackle the complex stuff.

Mathijs,

How does this all affect the Aerosoft AirbusX V2 that is being developed? Hopefully development is continuing, and not at a slower pace......

Regards,

Bob Lyddy

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  • 4 weeks later...

You could check out the Nuclear Fusion engine, www.nuclearglory.com

It's DirectX11 ready (with automatic dx9 fallback) , Bullet physics included, multicore scalable...

The same engine is used in the Nuclear Basic programming language, which is fresh out of the oven. Anyone can download the trial version of NB and check it out.

But for you, the C++ Nuclear Fusion stand-alone engine might be appealing.

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The most crucial point is distance. Many engines do have a problem handling large scale environments and the Nuclear Engine doesnt look like it supports these. Otherwise it would be described in the feature list.

Emmanuel

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Yes, it doesn't seem to have any terrain-like features built in, but I think it's up to the programmer to solve things like large environments.

There is a makeplane function though, which is flat by default and you decide the numbers of segments it has.

I guess that could be used if the vertex height data is continuously read in. But then, how would this be textured properly... hmmm I don't know, I'm just a noob programmer myself, but I do believe it's possible.

You could always contact the developers of the Nuclear engine and find out what's possible, as it mostly seems to fit what Aerosoft are looking for.

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Yes, it doesn't seem to have any terrain-like features built in, but I think it's up to the programmer to solve things like large environments.

Things like these should always be part of the core engine and not something build upon. Sure you can do it but it would take a lot of time to add these features and afterwards they are just proprietary. Also because this things highly depend on light rendering and everything below, for example uv-mapping, lod.

best regards

Emmanuel

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  • 4 months later...
The biggest problem remains the engine. We are simply not able to find any that does all we want and is handled by a big enough partner.

You should check Outerra. Soon to be released and looks really promising. Seems to fit flight simming very well (for example, pluggable flight dynamics etc., currently supporting at least JSBSim).

http://www.outerra.com/

http://outerra.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/user/cameni47

http://www.outerra.com/forum/

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Your assumption that Aerosoft has not checked Outerra out is frankly degrading. Not to mention that you dragged such an old thread out to tell us about something which has been mentioned countless times, had you taken just a moment to check.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Aerosoft

New Outerra beta video: http://vimeo.com/31560308

Impressive. And we have talked to Outerra a few times. But keep in mind that it's a scenery display engine, that's about 1/4 of a simulator. And what you see in the movie is in my estimate a full double layer dvd in data. For a very small area, without ANY human made objects. Now scale that up to a full world sim that we need and you see exactly where the problems are.

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  • 1 month later...

Impressive. And we have talked to Outerra a few times. But keep in mind that it's a scenery display engine, that's about 1/4 of a simulator. And what you see in the movie is in my estimate a full double layer dvd in data. For a very small area, without ANY human made objects. Now scale that up to a full world sim that we need and you see exactly where the problems are.

Mathijs Kok not to be rude,but you're wrong.You should familiarize your self with what Outerra really is.

You can do that here:http://www.outerra.com/wfeatures.html

Outerra is a unique 3D rendering engine, a world rendering engine capable to seamlessly render whole planets from space down to the surface. It can use arbitrary/varying resolution of elevation data that it further dynamically refines using fractal algorithms. The fractals try to mimic natural processes, generating fine, believable terrain with high resolution. The world is also being dynamically textured and populated with vegetation using predefined land type material sets and the computed terrain attributes.

An integrated flight dynamics model library (JSBSim) provides fully configurable physics and math model defining the movement of aircraft or rocket under various natural or applied forces and moments.

The engine also handles complex vehicle physics and its interactions with the terrain. It makes an ideal platform for integrating the ground and aerial vehicle simulation into one solution, while also allowing to have the whole world available in it.

:excellenttext_s:

Forum FAQ General:http://www.outerra.c...php?topic=247.0

What is procedural generation, and how does the engine differ from other games/engines?

Procedural generation is a concept of generating data algorithmically, rather than manually, in order to reduce amount of manual modeling or to generate detail when there are no data at given level of detail. Procedural generation can involve various fractal or algorithmic techniques; in OE it is used to refine terrain, generate the trees or for water rendering and more.

The engine differs mainly in that in OE the whole world will be ready from the beginning and you start with modding it, whereas with common engines you usually start with an empty, constrained level.

If I'm not wrang, Outerra uses some ofthe same techniques as Infinity: http://www.infinity-...inity/index.php

Infinity FAQ: http://www.infinity-...id=15&Itemid=28

How can you fit so much data on a CD ?

The trick is: we are not storing any star-system or planetary data at all! What we are storing are algorithms and code to generate this data in real-time, as requested by the game server. This is similar to what 64k demo coders do, and this technique is called procedural programming.

If data is procedurally generated, won't each player see a different result? what happens if I come back to the same location weeks later?

There is a lot of confusion on the Internet about what procedural generation really is about.

Procedural generation is not at all the same than random generation. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite: it's all about recreating the same data providing the same inputs. "Seeds" numbers are given to objects, so as long as an object has the same seed than before, it will be recreated exactly like before, with the exact same details, down to the millimeter level.

Synchronization between multiple players is ensured by making the server transfer the same object's seed to all players who are able to see or interact with this object. So all players will see the same procedurally generated object, like a planet, with the same details.

Won't planets all look the same ?

With billions of planets to explore in the galaxy, it is true that a lot of those planets will share a similar aspect. However, each planet will also be unique and have its own characteristics.

We will try to add as much variety as we can to our procedural algorithms to ensure that exploration is fun and rewarding.

Or do you remember the old days, Frontier Elite 2?: http://en.wikipedia....ntier:_Elite_II

The whole universe of Frontier Elite 2 on a single floppy disk.

Outerra does NOT take a lot of space.

I think you should spend some time to familiarize your self with Outerra. :bow_down2_s:

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  • Aerosoft

We have spoken a few times with the outtera team and I know it actually pretty well. But it is only a terrain rendering system. To make it into a simulator means bolting on a lot of additional modules, not our preferred method. For now X-Plane 10 is our favorite sim, we are checking out MS FLIGHT and at a very slow pace are still working on our own project. All we do is easily exported to different platforms, unless the simulator has limitations (like FS2004 does not allow many of the things we use in FSX).

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It's great to know that the project goes on - because i really really think/hope AEROSOFT are the right guys to make next gen flight simulator. Not to be a troll but it's a bit sad you put so much effort in x-plane 10 - i still thinks in many many aspects it's a very unfinished product. It has a few outstanding features - for sure - but also a lot which looks dull and old-school'ish. The menues - the copy protection - the sound - most of the graphics engine - just old school. Try an interesting approach - compare FSX with X-plane feature by feature - X-plane 10 wont have a change - yes it'll win a few - but overall FSX is still outstanding.

So my hopes are that you go full throttle again for AFS "2012" since you have all the opportunity to make a success here. Microsoft have opened the market for sure again with their new approach on flight "gaming". they wont be a threat - and honestly i dont think x-plane will either.

So go to the blue ocean now and create that stunning AFS i know you can do :-)

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X-plane 10 wont have a change - yes it'll win a few - but overall FSX is still outstanding.

What?

X-Plane offers a quite new graphics engine which allows realtime rendering of light sources on objects. Which is something you dont just shake out of your sleeve, in its simplest form. But here we are talking about lighting up a landscape and x-plane does it for this performance outstanding good! A thing which has never been seen on any other simulation yet.

Also X-Plane uses OSM data which is pretty cool, because the data can be updated and wont stay until eternity on your harddisk like in FSX. So maybe in some months X-Plane will show you more accurate landscapes than now. For VFR THE feature of XP10.

The algorithms used in XP10 are quite stunning, I have followed the blog of Ben Supnik where he explains them and just these ones beat FSX in every way. For example: no more landclass - time expensive - work to adjust autogen on the landscape. XP10 knows on its own where objects (trees, raffinery, houses, ...) are plausible and where not. You just say where streets are and XP10 will find out if a village there is plausible - in real time(!).

Nothing above does support FSX.

Also one of the greatest things are: With XP10 you can always buy yourself performance because XP10 is built to be used on multiple cores. In FSX it was implemented afterwards and is just running very proprietary.

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  • 1 month later...
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