Matt_Smith 1116 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 So, I thought I'd give this Katana a go seeing as I have a bit of spare time, but it doesn't quite work. The menus to do walk around, settings, maintenance etc will not work at 5760*1080. The only way I can get them to work is to change my resolution down to 1920*1080 (going from 3 screens to 1 not convenient in any way). Any suggestions as to why this might be happening? Few more details. Tried with both the retail version and 1.01 beta, both of which have the same outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.Wotan 0 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Yep i have the same problem, i guess you are running eyefinity as well? If you click on an option the mouse pointer goes crazy and starts flashing. If you end the flight and then come back in the 4x menu appears. But as indicated above, nothing works at 5760x1080 Any help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Smith 1116 Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 Yep i have the same problem, i guess you are running eyefinity as well? If you click on an option the mouse pointer goes crazy and starts flashing. If you end the flight and then come back in the 4x menu appears. But as indicated above, nothing works at 5760x1080 Any help? Glad its not just me with the problem. Im not using eyefinity, Im running Nvidia surround via 2 GTX 580's - which is reassuring as its not a Nvidia or driver issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted May 2, 2011 Aerosoft Share Posted May 2, 2011 Matt, what exactly is happening? Do the screen fail to show up at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.Wotan 0 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Yes that's part of the problem. The menus do not show up, i can get the "icons menu" up, it looks awful but works. The setup menu and most of the others just cause the mouse pointer to go nuts. It alternates between the spinning disk thing (win7) and the pointer. Like something is loading. The 4x menu does not load on first attempt with the aircraft, however if i end flight and go straight back in, it appears (and looks fine). I guess it's a resolution issue since i am using a ATI 6970 with 3x monitors and the other chap is using Nvidia. Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Smith 1116 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Hi Mathijs, what happens for me: The first menu (shift 3) loads up its all streached out of proportion but I expect that with having such a crazy resolution. The icons are all there and Im able to click on them. How ever the only iocns that actually display anything are the Mantenance icons. So the equiptment, service and workshop menues all show all be it streached. None of the there icons work. Like Capt. Wotan the mouse pointer flashes between the windows 7 loading and normal pointer when I click on any of the other icons, which are all the ones that load across the top of the screen or settings which is ful screen. Hope this is a better explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.Wotan 0 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Just adding a little to Matts information. I run in windowed mode, if i only use a single monitor rather than all 3 the product works great. So what i can do at the moment is use it single windowed for prep, when i am ready to fly i use all 3 again. Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Smith 1116 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Which is essentially what I have to do - only changing the resolution down to 1920*1080 as I run in full screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted May 3, 2011 Aerosoft Share Posted May 3, 2011 Okay, we'll investigate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.Wotan 0 Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Okay, we'll investigate this. Thank you, please let me know if i can assist. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb_nobrain 1 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 hello i have the same problem and i post this topic http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/44939-diamond-da20-100-katana-and-eyefinity/ when I change the panel.cfg to change the size of the windows of the menu it's improving but it is particularly difficult to get the right ratio. thank you for watching this because it's a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb_nobrain 1 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 after a full day of work on panel.cfg I finally managed to get all the available minor bug-free (crazy mouse). If you want I can send you my panel.cfg so that you can test you. Do all the same to do a backup of your original pnael.cfg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Smith 1116 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Could you attach it to this post if at all possible, so we all can enjoy your hard work. If not Im sure Mathijs or Shaun can upload it to the forum for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bman. 1 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 JB / Matt- I have been adjusting my panel.cfg to get it to work with my Matrox 3H2Go. As I have posted on another thread, I have over the past month gone through and adjusted every panel / windowXX on my entire fleet to get the windows sized and positioned in the correct location with my 5040x1040 resolution. As you all have found, the flicker / thinking icon will crop up when a [windowXX] is proportioned in a way that cause the window not display correctly (or at all). Why it goes to the icon goes to a blinking state versus just display a whacked out ratio window I don't know. Changing Window00 for the "main" window fixes the initial blinking / thinking issue. [Window00] file= size_mm=1280 //window_size_ratio=1.000 position=7 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=MAIN_PANEL window_size= 0.33, 1.000 window_pos= 0.000, 0.000 zorder=0 Now for the fun! JB, do you have all of your Settings / Maint / Pre-Flight pop-ups reconfigured to work with your wide resolution. Perhaps collectively we could all put together a panel.cfg that will work nicely for the wide-display guys. There are a lot of pop-ups to adjust but we can do it... I think I plan on working on the primary pop-ups tonight and sort of pick off the 2nd tier pop-ups as I find what I use and don't use. JB / Matt - post what you guys have done to date and I will set how it works with my setup. Just for fun... image of current setup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb_nobrain 1 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 here is a copy of my panel.cfg. I advise you well on fair eune backup of your original file before doing anything. home display now works but it is not perfect yet. cordially // DA20-100 Katana //----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Window Titles] Window00=Main Panel Window02=Icons Window20=Ground & Preflight > Ground Equipment // 7200 Window21=Ground & Preflight > Tow Bar // 7210 Window22=Ground & Preflight > Walkaround Check // 7220 Window23=Ground & Preflight > Trim Tabs // 7230 Window24=Ground & Preflight > Fuel // 7240 Window25=Ground & Preflight > Oil and Liquidts // 7250 Window26=Ground & Preflight > Payload // 7260 Window27=Ground & Preflight > Cleaning // 7270 Window28=Ground & Preflight > Temperature Sensor // 7280 Window30=Maintenance > Aircraft and Equipment // 7300 Window31=Maintenance > Workshop // 7310 Window32=Maintenance > Service // 7320 window40=Instructor Panel > Systems Overview // 7400 window41=Instructor Panel > Engine and Fuel // 7410 window42=Instructor Panel > Electric // 7420 window43=Instructor Panel > Instruments and Avionics // 7430 window44=Instructor Panel > Systems and Faults // 7440 Window50=Settings > Settings // 7500 Window61=Initiation // 7610 Window62=Data Window // 7620 //----------------------------------------------------------------------- [VIEWS] VIEW_FORWARD_WINDOWS=MAIN_PANEL, VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=11.0, 0.0, 0.0 //----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Window00] file= size_mm=1280 window_size_ratio=1.000 position=7 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=MAIN_PANEL window_pos= 0.000, 0.000 window_size= 0.333, 0.4 zorder=0 [Window02] BACKGROUND_COLOR=1,1,1 size_mm=250,2000 window_size_ratio=0.900 windowsize_ratio=0.900 position=2 visible=1 no_luminous=1 ident=7000 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_pos= 0.000, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!ICNS-MAIN, 0, 0, 250, 1000 [Window20] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1000,220 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7200 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 window_size= 0.200, 0.333 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-GRND-FIXN, 0, 0, 1000, 220 [Window21] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=250,250 position=4 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7210 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.55 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 window_size= 0.333, 0.433 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-PUSH, 0, 0, 150, 150 [Window22] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1000,1000 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7220 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 window_size= 0.333, 1.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-OUTC, 0, 0, 1000, 1000 [Window23] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1000,200 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7230 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 window_size= 0.333, 0.433 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-GRND-TRIM, 0, 0, 1000, 200 [Window24] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1200,200 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7240 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_size= 0.333, 0.433 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-GRND-FUEL, 0, 0, 1200, 200 [Window25] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1000,300 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7250 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_size= 0.333, 0.433 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-GRND-LIQU, 0, 0, 1000, 300 [Window26] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1000,400 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7260 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_size= 0.333, 0.433 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-GRND-PAYL, 0, 0, 1000, 400 [Window27] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1200,220 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7270 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_size= 0.333, 0.433 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-GRND-CLNG, 0, 0, 1200, 220 [Window28] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=250,250 position=4 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7280 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.55 window_size= 0.333, 0.433 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-TEMP, 0, 0, 150, 150 [Window30] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=179,1200 position=0 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7300 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_size= 0.08, 0.900 window_pos= 0.000, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-MNTC-EQPM, 0, 0, 179, 1200 [Window31] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=179,1200 position=0 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7310 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_size= 0.08, 0.900 window_pos= 0.000, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-MNTC-WRKS, 0, 0, 179, 1200 [Window32] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=179,1200 position=0 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7320 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_size= 0.08, 0.900 window_pos= 0.000, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-MNTC-SERV, 0, 0, 179, 1200 [Window40] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1000,900 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7400 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_size= 0.400, 0.900 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-MENU-7400, 0, 0, 1000, 900 gauge01=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-DISP-SITN, 10, 50, 600, 200 gauge02=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-INST-SETP, 10, 220, 450, 600 gauge03=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-INST-REPR, 470, 220, 250, 210 [Window41] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1000,730 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7410 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_size= 0.400, 0.900 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-MENU-7410, 0, 0, 1000, 730 gauge01=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-INST-ENGP, 10, 70, 250, 250 gauge02=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-INST-ENGC, 250, 70, 500, 250 gauge03=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-INST-FUEL, 250, 330, 500, 370 gauge04=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-INST-LIQU, 10, 330, 250, 370 [Window42] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1000,730 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7420 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_size= 0.400, 0.900 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-MENU-7420, 0, 0, 1000, 730 gauge01=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-ELEC, 10, 70, 600, 650 [Window44] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1000,730 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7440 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.9 window_size= 0.400, 0.900 window_pos= 0.350, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-MENU-7440, 0, 0, 1000, 730 gauge02=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-INST-FLTS, 10, 70, 600, 280 [Window50] BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0 size_mm=1000,1000 position=2 visible=0 no_luminous=1 ident=7500 zorder=5 alpha_blend=0.95 draw_order00=gauge00, gauge01, gauge02, gauge03, gauge04, gauge05, gauge06, gauge07 window_size= 0.333, 0.900 window_pos= 0.000, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-MENU-7500, 0, 0, 1000,1000 gauge01=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-MODE, 10, 75, 220, 370 gauge02=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-CTRL, 250, 75, 220, 460 gauge03=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-RADS, 250, 555, 220, 340 gauge04=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-INIT, 10, 465, 220, 350 gauge05=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-EFCT-LGHT, 490, 75, 220, 220 gauge06=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-EFCT-SNDS, 490, 315, 220, 450 gauge07=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-EFCT-VIBR, 490, 785, 220, 170 [Window61] Background_color=0,0,0 size_mm=200,250 position=0 visible=0 no_luminous=1 sizeable=0 nomenu=1 ident=7610 zorder=3 window_size= 0.333, 0.333 window_pos= 0.000, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-INIT-WNDW, 0, 50, 200, 200 [Window62] Background_color=0,0,0 size_mm=500,500 position=0 visible=0 no_luminous=1 sizeable=0 nomenu=1 ident=7620 zorder=3 window_size= 0.333, 0.333 window_pos= 0.000, 0.000 gauge00=MFDA20_GUI!GUID-DATA-WNDW, 0, 50, 500, 500 //----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Vcockpit00] Background_color=0,0,0 size_mm=2048,2048 visible=0 pixel_size=2048,2048 texture=$MF_DA20_1 gauge03=MFDA20_SYS!DATA-INIT-VARS, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge04=MFDA20_SYS!DATA-ENVI-VARS, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge05=MFDA20_SYS!DATA-ENVI-TIMR, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge06=MFDA20_SYS!DATA-ENVI-10HZ, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge07=MFDA20_SYS!DATA-ENCD-INST, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge08=MFDA20_SYS!DATA-EQPM-VARS, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge09=MFDA20_SYS!DATA-ENVI-SOUND, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge10=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-ENGN-912S, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge11=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-ENGN-CARB, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge12=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-ENGN-GEAR, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge13=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-ENGN-GENR, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge14=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-ENGN-PROP, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge15=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-ENGN-PUMP, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge16=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-FUEL, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge17=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-STRC, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge18=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-CTRL, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge19=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-GEAR, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge20=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-PRBS, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge21=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-ELEC, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge22=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-EQPM, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge23=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-AVNC, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge24=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-INST, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge25=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-LGHT, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge26=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-ANNC, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge27=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-THER, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge28=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-GRND-EQPM, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge29=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-SERV, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge30=MFDA20_SYS!ENVR-MISC, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge31=MFDA20_SYS!ENVR-EFCT, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge32=MFDA20_SYS!SYST-M803, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge46=fs9gps!gps_500, 1244, 12, 790, 742 gauge47=rxpGNS!GNS530, 1245, 1140, 790, 570 gauge48=MFDA20_OUT!START, 892, 23, 120, 120 gauge49=MFDA20_OUT!TEMP, 1021, 23, 120, 120 gauge50=MFDA20_OUT!DATA, 1247, 1716, 786, 74 gauge51=MFDA20_OUT!RLDI-RPMI, 24, 235, 449, 98 gauge52=MFDA20_OUT!RLDI-FLTR, 29, 622, 444, 256 gauge53=MFDA20_OUT!RLDI-KT76A, 1247, 1053, 788, 73 gauge54=MFDA20_OUT!DISP-OUTV, 118, 64, 263, 116 gauge55=MFDA20_OUT!DISP-CHRN-M803, 23, 347, 457, 260 gauge56=MFDA20_OUT!DISP-KX125-TSO, 1244, 765, 792, 118 gauge57=MFDA20_OUT!DISP-KX125-TSO-SMP, 1244, 913, 792, 118 gauge71=MFDA20_OBJ!CMPS_CARD, 22, 1412, 453, 215 gauge91=MFDA20_DEV!TEMP-DATA, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge92=MFDA20_DEV!TEMP-DATA-01HZ, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge93=MFDA20_DEV!TEMP-DATA-02HZ, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge94=MFDA20_DEV!TEMP-DATA-05HZ, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge95=MFDA20_DEV!TEMP-DATA-10HZ, 0, 0, 1, 1 gauge97=ASC!MAIN, 0, 0, 10, 10, 1 gauge98=loadsave!loadsave, 0, 0, 20, 20 gauge99=payload!payload, 0, 0, 20, 20 //----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Default View] X=0 Y=0 SIZE_X=8192 SIZE_Y=8192 //----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Color] Day=255,255,255 Night=50,50,50 Luminous=50,30,30 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Smith 1116 Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 THanks much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb_nobrain 1 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 if you can tell me what it gives with you It would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Smith 1116 Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Once I get the chance to test it I'll post up some screens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bman. 1 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 JB - NICE WORK!! Thanks for resizing all of these menus. I can actually use them now It seems that everything works just fine (no blinking icon etc). About the only think I might change a little is to have some of the panels (not all) not stack on top of one another when opened. That would vary from person to persons monitors, preference on location in general. You have done all the tedious work and I appreciate it! Bman. (Benjamin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb_nobrain 1 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 with pleasure. for changing the location must be changed lines window_pos = 0.000, 0.000. But I think by default (based on the addon) stack the windows as well. if I can change something else do not hesitate. jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p38man 0 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I believe the initial window - 61 in the panel config posted here ( http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/45288-katana-menus/page__view__findpost__p__308851) has an error as it does not work on my setup and comes up illegibly squashed - matrox th2go. Anyone confirm this? The number bolded and made bigger looks wrong to me I think it should be something like 0.900 but no-one seems to have this problem? window_size= 0.333, 0.333 window_pos= 0.000, 0.000 BTW thanks so much jb_nobrain! All other panels, in my quick check, seem to be reasonably the correct size and shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb_nobrain 1 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 what's your vertical configuration?? 1080 or 1050?? the second number is the vertical's ratio. Try 0.900 in place of 0.333. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p38man 0 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 what's your vertical configuration?? 1080 or 1050?? the second number is the vertical's ratio. Try 0.900 in place of 0.333. I have a 1440 by 900 for each monitor giving me 4320 by 900 for the 3. I will try 0.900 but what really confuses me is how it works for everyone else???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb_nobrain 1 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 my panel.cfg is for my configuration (5760*1080). So the ratio for your configuration is not good. you have 900 px vertical so 180px less than me. If window_size= 0.333, 0.900 works for you it's good. if it's doesn't work modifiy the ratio. if you want i help you. jb ps : given the number of users triple screens it would still be wise for designers addons support this kind of panel .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p38man 0 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I made the change on the main panel to the 0.900 figure and it works great! All panels working good for me. Thanks again jb_nobrain. I agree with the earlier post: I would like the panel.cfg option made by Aerosoft (and others) in the future. Its no work for the programmer who understands this stuff - what, 5 minutes? Can be trickier for us in some cases but no effort at all for the programmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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