MarcelFelde 527 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Interesting point: On one side, you have to work for many months, sometimes years without being payed until the project is finished. So you have to do some work or smaller projects beside the development which makes that taking even longer. Additionally, it is nearly impossible to find all bugs on complex projects with a small beta team. On the other side, many peope are very sensitive if there even exists a beta you have to pay for, also they are not forced to take part. And that means bad publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snave 466 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 On the customers side, they pay for a product on the promise of contributing to its completion, then sit and wait, and wait, and wait while the `finished` product they have subscribed to is never actually completed. Development quietly stalls, then nosedives because the developer is now expected to do work that he got paid for a long time ago, and he/she is spending increasing time NOT developing through the requirement to keep fending off the criticism as to why the product has never been finished in accordance with the contracted arrangements... I suggest the solution is staged payments. The developer gets a trickle feed by charging say, 10-20% of the full retail value, and states overtly what the next stage will be. Beta Subscribers can then be certain they've got what they've paid for, while the developer has the financial incentive to actually keep the project moving forward within a reasonable time frame, else they never get the full wallop. Mutual self interest. The other alternative is that disgruntled purchasers combine forces, launch a combined legal action against the developer for strict performance of contract in the most litigious and costly market that the product is sold in, Then slice up the developers car, home and sell the kids for medical experiments to pay the legal fees. Yep, that too might focus a developers mind wonderfully to the point that incomplete product makes the developer merely the guardian of the money, not the owner.... Either method would work. Certainly under English law I see examples of development practices in the FS market that are illegal contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcelFelde 527 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 For the developer it doesn't matter if the looses his house because of working months and years without being payed before the release or in the way of your scenario. And think of projects that never came to an end or took years longer because the developer had to do something else to have some money for living. I didn't say that a payed beta is a solution for the Porter I am thinking about because of the bad publicity. In the games industries it is quite usual and accepted. But I don't like that negative and anti-developer atmosphere. So the second part of your message makes me reflective and demotivates me in some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snave 466 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 For sure the `cleanest` solution, acceptable to all parties, is to deliver what is promised. Frankly, the body of works that you have produced Marcel, down through the years, indicates that not only should you not be demotivated, the body of contributions from the disheveled masses suggests that it is most often the customer who needs to catch up, because it's their abilities that are often exceeded by the product. ...But that's a different pet peeve of mine, (he says, lifting his head out of the manual)... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcelFelde 527 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Please Snave, don't speak bad of the users that need to learn or don't have the time and motivation to read the manuals. I edited your posting accordingly. In fact, I am at the same point as many users who buy complex add-ons: Also I have been reading several pilot and maintenance manuals on the PC-6 and the PT6A in different languages, talked to several pilots, recorded many videos during flight and run up, it has been an one hour telephone discussion yesterday to open my eyes on some aspects I didn't understand before. So sometimes you can ask "stupid" questions also you have been reading the manuals. It would be nice if we could return to discussions on the PC-6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmlt1 5 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Please Snave, don't speak bad of the users that need to learn or don't have the time and motivation to read the manuals. I edited your posting accordingly. In fact, I am at the same point as many users who buy complex add-ons: Also I have been reading several pilot and maintenance manuals on the PC-6 and the PT6A in different languages, talked to several pilots, recorded many videos during flight and run up, it has been an one hour telephone discussion yesterday to open my eyes on some aspects I didn't understand before. So sometimes you can ask "stupid" questions also you have been reading the manuals. It would be nice if we could return to discussions on the PC-6... Yea sorry for the stray on the topic... Anyway I was wondering where you're at on the development? From the pictures it looks pretty far along! And you said the ADF was done! I just love the DA20 its the realist sim aircraft I have ever flown!! If someone know's of another one like it, please let me know! So, Im very excited to get my hands on one of my favorite STOL Turboprops. And if its anything like the Katana it will be my go to bird for a very long time!! -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocomotive 4 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 "If someone know of's another one like it, please let me know!" Yep the Do 27 also from Mr Felde... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmlt1 5 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 "If someone know of's another one like it, please let me know!" Yep the Do 27 also from Mr Felde... Looks really nice but, Im from the states and I will probalbly never see a DO-27 in real life so it doesn't really doesn't interest me. I guess that's one of my sim quirks... If I cant see it in real life I wont be too interested. I like to think I am training for a possible flight in the real thing. I usually always make a point of finding and seeing the aircraft I fly in the sim. There's a few porters around used for skydiving that I plan to take a trip and see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snave 466 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 There's one for sale in Washington http://www.aso.com/l...22798&dealerid= Ironically, one more than for a PC-6 http://www.aso.com/listings/AircraftListings.aspx?searchId=522818 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmlt1 5 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 There's one for sale in Washington http://www.aso.com/l...22798&dealerid= Ironically, one more than for a PC-6 http://www.aso.com/l...searchId=522818 Yea, but if you go here there's a few more Porters... http://registry.faa....t=PC-6&PageNo=1 DO's http://registry.faa....=DO-27&PageNo=1 But my interest has raised! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CODY614 0 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Marcel... Any way that you can make the GPS hide in the cockpit? You know kinda like an yoke on yoke off thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliksimpie 14 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Marcel... Any way that you can make the GPS hide in the cockpit? You know kinda like an yoke on yoke off thing? just use the OFF switch, same effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmlt1 5 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Marcel... Any way that you can make the GPS hide in the cockpit? You know kinda like an yoke on yoke off thing? Yea I also like that Idea! How come they haven't moved this over to the "preview of unreleased products forum?" Is this not going to be released by Aerosoft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikoporter 5 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hey Marcel! How are you? Have you got some any Pilatus Porter news?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcelFelde 527 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hey Marcel! How are you? Have you got some any Pilatus Porter news?? Currently working on the exterior model, so hopefully there will be some new things to show soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CODY614 0 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Marcel This will be a must have...It will be hard waiting for this one though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb613 39 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Fantastic - one of my favorite birds - did you guys ever notice the footage in the Mel Gibson film - Air America - with them landing in a few hundred feet on top of that mountain ? What an incredible performer... Regards, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcelFelde 527 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Fantastic - one of my favorite birds - did you guys ever notice the footage in the Mel Gibson film - Air America - with them landing in a few hundred feet on top of that mountain ? What an incredible performer... Regards, Scott You don't need a mountain for that: We have been flying one PC-6 to Baden-Baden airport and returned with another. We taxied along from one side of the airport to the other end for taking off. We only used two aircraft lengths for take-off. I will regret to have not filmed that situation for my lifetime. Minutes before that take-off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prozac 18 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Fantastic - one of my favorite birds - did you guys ever notice the footage in the Mel Gibson film - Air America - with them landing in a few hundred feet on top of that mountain ? What an incredible performer... Regards, Scott Some great flying in that film. Aerosoft should release some Laos scenery (complete with said mountain strip and abandoned C-123 fuselage to taxi into) to complement the Porter--kinda like the Lukla scenery goes perfectly with the Twotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcelFelde 527 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Last weekend I had a very early preview of the PC-6 at the FS-Weekend in Lelystad and if everything goes well, I will also be in Hergiswil next week. The Flightsimweekend will be at the "Seehotel Pilatus" - not far away from the location where the PC-6 is build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikoporter 5 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Really, Really NICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleD 1027 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Looking as great as usual! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmlt1 5 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I hate to bring it up but ims o excited cant help it... This bird looks pretty far along, Any chance we will see something around Xmass. Keep up the great work regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueyman 10 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Really amazing details on those control surfaces ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz313th 2 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Looking really good Marcel.. Gotta question. Considering that Online siming is getting more popular. Will you try to make the PC-6 model in FSX compatible with FSX default multiplayer servers? By this I mean, will you try to keep packet flooding to a minimum on the FSX server? I only ask this, since the Katana (which is an amazing FSX Model) really floods the multiplayer servers so much, that it's impossible to use in a MP environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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