Alan_A 117 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Here's something I (re)learned the hard way - if you have a controller with a mixture axis assigned, it needs to be set full forward or the Katana's engine won't work. This is in spite of the fact that the Katana itself doesn't have a mixture control. Apparently the FSX mixture axis has an impact on fuel flow nevertheless, and will cut off fuel if it's not all the way on. This is something I've observed in other add-ons (Ant's Tecnam Sierra comes to mind), and there's a similar phenomenon in the Lotus Simulations L-39 Albatross where the propeller control need to be full forward for the jet engine to work properly. But I managed to forget about it while learning the Katana - I got so caught up in all the other realism features that it slipped my mind. After a series of failed engine starts (the engine would cut on, then immediately cut out), I was busy draining and refilling oil, swapping grades, checking temperatures in case the inlet baffle was an issue, and contemplating replacing the engine. I also had an engine failure on my first downwind in the pattern - in this instance the engine started, but then failed after I paused the simulation and restarted (I guess it picked up on the mixture-off setting at that point). I managed a Sully - thankfully the Katana glides beautifully. Then the lightbulb went on over my head. On my next start I moved the mixture to full, startup was fine, and everything ran perfectly. I'm posting this for the sake of anyone who's struggling with engine failures - keep on top of all the hyper-realistic maintenance items, of course, but don't overlook the FSX quirks either. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcelFelde 527 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Thanks for the hint! Normally hardware should not be the problem. But if signals of the potentiometers are flickering, FSX gets a signal to set Mixture to a certain value. If this is persistant, it is indeed a problem because the Katana needs some time to adjust the mixture setting. This could also be the problem if there is not enough power. Also worth to keep in mind: Even if you unplug hardware and did not remove its assignments before in FSX or FSUIPC, it may still send a signal. Had the problem once with a throttle. The old device wasn't connected anymore, so FSX got the signal 0 which means 50%. I could move the new throttle or use the keybord, the power always returned to 50%. And if you do not have the old hardware anymore to connect and remove the axis assignments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snave 466 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Aside, but related: I've always made it a habit to move the controllers to their full extent on loading FSX (well, if I'm not in the air I suppose...) and then press the keypad 5 (with numlock off) which is a default key commend to `center all controls`. I've found this to be a good tip for avoiding the worst of these `out of phase` control surface responses over the years as it gets everything `signing off the same humn sheet`, so to speak. Another is that Force Feedback controllers should ALWAYS be set with the minimum of NULL in all axes. It significantly reduces the amount of `backlash` felt when using short movements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_A 117 Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Good advice all around. I suppose I could try deleting the mixture axis from the FSUIPC Katana profile. But I'd still worry about the possiblity of ghost signals along the lines Marcel describes. It seems safer to set the mixture lever forward - and also exercise the controls as Simon suggests. Just means adding a couple more items to the "before start" checklist. FSX demands its own set of good habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcelFelde 527 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 No, I fear that the lever all way forward will help on ground but will lead into trouble under certain circumstances. Another problem could also be the spoiler axis. We had one case, also with removed hardware and the signal was read as zero and so the spoilers were deployed 50% all the time. Will have to add those hints into the manual... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_A 117 Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 No, I fear that the lever all way forward will help on ground but will lead into trouble under certain circumstances. Better to delete the axis, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcelFelde 527 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Better to delete the axis, then? Yes, I would suggest that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_A 117 Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Yes, I would suggest that. Will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotlope 4 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 No, I fear that the lever all way forward will help on ground but will lead into trouble under certain circumstances. Another problem could also be the spoiler axis. We had one case, also with removed hardware and the signal was read as zero and so the spoilers were deployed 50% all the time. Will have to add those hints into the manual... Thank you! I thought I was going insane... the first few times I loaded the Katana from another flight I'd saved, I could get in the air but could only achieve a max of 55kts or so with full power, and no climbing abilities whatsoever. I stuffed a couple of them into the trees at the end of the runway until I tried, out of desperation, hitting the spoiler key. The first click must have deployed it fully, because my airspeed sank rapidly. The second click was like the punch of a booster rocket. Finally I figured out to deactivate the spoilers and then save my startup flight as default. That seems have cured it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn 873 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 No, I fear that the lever all way forward will help on ground but will lead into trouble under certain circumstances. Another problem could also be the spoiler axis. We had one case, also with removed hardware and the signal was read as zero and so the spoilers were deployed 50% all the time. Will have to add those hints into the manual... Normally moving "unused" axis' all the way forward is sufficient. It is only if Your controller is spiking at the full forward position that You will have troubles. Axis' in FSX are only processed if they are moving i.e changing their values. Aicraft addons like the Katana X, Catalina X and the upcomming Dimona X, wich uses mixture for simulating engine failure or rough running, should still work as flawless with the mixture axis(s) full forward. Finn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcelFelde 527 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 In most cases you are right. But even removed hardware can have spikes as the example with the spoiler shows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snave 466 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 There is also the `move to change` latency effect carried over from previous flights in FS. With no input from the user, the aircraft will normally load with the previous flight settings - say 50% throttle, mixture leaned, prop rpm held back. These are held regardless of the actual throttle, mixture or prop setting on the controller at the time of loading. ONLY upon next use of the controller will the two enter parity as FSX only `sees` the controller when it's position changes. This is another reason why it is absolutely vital to have a `clean` startup situation for any complex aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_A 117 Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Normally moving "unused" axis' all the way forward is sufficient. It is only if Your controller is spiking at the full forward position that You will have troubles. Axis' in FSX are only processed if they are moving i.e changing their values. Aicraft addons like the Katana X, Catalina X and the upcomming Dimona X, wich uses mixture for simulating engine failure or rough running, should still work as flawless with the mixture axis(s) full forward. Finn Thanks for that. For the record, before I read your post, I deleted all the irrelevant axes in my FSUIPC Katana profile. I use two CH quadrants together, set up for four separate throttle, prop and mixture controls. For the Katana I reduced that to one throttle and one prop lever (using the special Katana setting for FSUIPC). Everything works fine with the extra axes gone. Maybe overkill - a belt-and-suspenders approach - but as long as nothing goes wrong, I think I'll keep things that way. If I get odd behaviors I can always restore the axes. Will post again if anything like that happens but as of the moment, things are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-KPNS 2 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Thanks for that. For the record, before I read your post, I deleted all the irrelevant axes in my FSUIPC Katana profile. I use two CH quadrants together, set up for four separate throttle, prop and mixture controls. For the Katana I reduced that to one throttle and one prop lever (using the special Katana setting for FSUIPC). Everything works fine with the extra axes gone. Maybe overkill - a belt-and-suspenders approach - but as long as nothing goes wrong, I think I'll keep things that way. If I get odd behaviors I can always restore the axes. Will post again if anything like that happens but as of the moment, things are good. (using the special Katana setting for FSUIPC.....OK ... OK guys having s "Senior Moment" ....when is the information about special FSUIPC settings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_A 117 Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 (using the special Katana setting for FSUIPC.....OK ... OK guys having s "Senior Moment" ....when is the information about special FSUIPC settings? See THIS POST for information on how to set the prop lever through FSUIPC. You can also search this forum for "FSUIPC" to find references to other settings. In general - the Katana installation creates a new set of FSUIPC controls - they show up on the FSUIPC pulldowns when you assign axes and controls. I'm not sure if this information has made it into a revised manula yet (haven't checked since the 1.01 patch came out) but I'm sure it will. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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