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Tobus

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I never liked peaches, they bruise too easily and are way too sweet, which Im definately not sweet :lol:

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Well said guys. I had hoped to join the chat about this, but my HTC mobile and aerosoft chat apparently do not mix. I fully agree with Ole though.

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Matt. Every server in the world has downtime. Aerosoft´s serves have been down quite a bit the last 6 months. Yes I know they swapped to something new now, but downtime IS a part of life.

- and IVAO is NOT in reach without "faffing around" If I get the word correctly.

Bottom line is that I don´t think the problem lies with VAE - it lies with US. Andras Field, and what we need from an online provider. I don´t know if IVAO is the answer. That we need to discuss with the users I believe. Do they want the whole "realistic" package from IVAO (IF we can get them to recognize AF that is) OR do people want the faffing-free version as in Gamespy.

That´s MY view on things. wink.gif

You know we are more than willing to accommodate you in anyway we can. :) Honestly I don't think its the Andras Field admins or VAE's fault that the online activity is less then expected. More often than not I get the impression that most people buy the Andras field product to fly offline and have some customized scenery in the Sim and there are the other people that come on to enjoy the good times on the server although that number may be small there is definitely people in that category.

We provide a great service to the community sure it may be small but its there for people to use it. Correct me if I'm wrong I think VAE's services are more tailored to the small community atmosphere that Andras field seems to reflect. Furthermore as I mentioned in my first proposal email to Andras Field when this first started; "we allow the operation of ground vehicles, the ability to fly short hops between airports, the use of gliders, and we will offer ATC services into and out of your air park." We have held our word on all of those areas. If possible I would like to arrange a meeting between the Andras Admins and members if they want to come and the VAE admins, an open forum type of thing to see if we can get this all worked out.

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I was too late for the original discussion, so here come my VATSIM fanboy 50ct's now =P

(I'm not trying to "bash" anyone here... just my personal opinion)

First: why VATSIM, not IVAO

- seems to be the network more used in Europe (where AF is...), whereas IVAO seems to be better for US flying

- software is more integrated. One piece in FSX, nothing else needed (though I would indeed prefer "The Eye" from IVAO, awesome software! - for me the client in FSX is more important...)

Further:

- I don't think AF needs to be recognized by IVAO/VATSIM for the most part. It would be just like when you approach any airport and no controller is online.

- we could approach VATSIM and see if we can get an "Info" controller at AF (both Land/Water), the "certification" (which due to the very limited IFR procedures should be very manageable) could be done by ourselves (so they don't have to "waste" any of their ressources on a "fantasy"

==> actually AF is typical for many uncontrolled airfields in Germany (look at "Mengen, Schwäbisch-Hall, Donau-Eschingen, just to name a few).

- the only thing that would be really, really nice is a fixed frequency for AF (maybe we could even host the controller 24/7, so that you can use the frequency as a UNICOM when no controller is online)

Why at all VATSIM/IAVO:

- even if no one specific to AF is online, you're still not alone

- as long as you stay below FL100 it doesn't matter that AF doesn't exist in reality, there are enough uncontrolled airfields in Germany...!

- I think complexity isn't really an argument AGAINST one of the above. I think most of the pilots that want to fly multiplayer to Andras Fields are already involved in VATSIM or IVAO anyway

+ even if we host it on another platform you still need someone to control it (or you will crash into other pilots), which means that you need to talk to each other, which means that you will basically just learn those few rules that you need in real life anyway...

If you just want to fly VFR then the instructions are pretty simple & since it's only an "Info" station you would do most of your flying on your own anyhow, you would just get traffic information, weather information etc.

IF we can't get VATSIM/IVAO to recognize AF:

- we could still create a "private voice channel", pilots approaching AF & departing would need to contact the "controller" to be invited to the chat and it could go on as normal, takes a few seconds at most... much better than texting the whole time...!

Why not VAE/Gamespy

- not to hurt anyone involved here, but I think these solutions are more for special events. For general flights in multiplayer you need a lot more members, others who do not fly to the same field as you do, that's what makes it realistic.

Alright, I think that's enough for now...

Cheers, Stefan

P.S.: I just feel that Andras field is too empty if you fly in Singleplayer, but maybe some sort of an General Aviation AI-package could help there, plus some AES movement at the parking positions & in the airpark...

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P.S.: I just feel that Andras field is too empty if you fly in Singleplayer, but maybe some sort of an General Aviation AI-package could help there, plus some AES movement at the parking positions & in the airpark...

Stefan - Sayuuk? (Greenlandish???)

Great post. Nice valid points, and completely without bashing anyone. Thanks for this.

P.S. I am now more confused as what to think is the best, than ever... laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif

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Stefan - Sayuuk? (Greenlandish???)

Great post. Nice valid points, and completely without bashing anyone. Thanks for this.

P.S. I am now more confused as what to think is the best, than ever... laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif

No... more Germanish... =P

Sayuuk was my attempt on being English...

In the Homeworld saga there is a character (or actually two) that are called Sajuuk Khar and Sajuuk Khem. I thought - naturally - that it would be written with an "y" in the original version, which it wasn't... so that's left me with a nickname that's pretty unique (thought there are some others with the name now, but they weren't there "from the beginning"...)

Back to the topic:

My opinion is that we should try the VATSIM way. If we get it recognized and one of us (I'm willing to do it - hell I'm allowed to do it in real life, how hard can it be the virtual way... =P ) wants to "play controller", then we're pretty much set. No additional setup time for hardware required and pretty much set to go... if you have an event you might even talk to the VATSIM Germany guys in advance and see if they can staff the airspace around AF (from FL100 up).

You can even do the ATC without a radar client, this way it'd really be like in real life, where most of the small airports don't have any radar. The controller can basically sit in any airplane and do his stuff from there.

If that's not possible, I guess a Gamespy session would make the most sense. No additional software required and everything is built in. Couple that with a teamspeak server and we might get some radio communication going.

I mean, if you just want to fly VFR from AF or to AF you can just stay disconnected until there is nothing more between you and AF (airspace-wise) or you have descended below FL100. And if you leave AF you connect and as soon as you're clear you disconnect, you're flying alone then anyway...

I think most of those who say that VATSIM is too complicated have never really looked at the requirements. For pure VFR flight it's pretty simple.

I'd even offer a small orientation course (maybe on a bi-weekly basis) to introduce new pilots into VATSIM, explain the basics of traffic patterns, the software (Squawkbox) and radio communications.

Once you've tried flying online with VATSIM it won't compare to other solutions anymore, you should be hooked by then ;-)

Stefan

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I agree with Stefan except for the part that VATSIM is more used in Europe. See the images which were taken at the same time just before I made this post which pretty much show how I find both networks most of the time.

The other points are good valid points

ivao.png

vatsim.png

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Regarding the screenies, I see more traffic on IVAO than on VATSIM, am I correct?

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Darn, I ought to have another look at IVAO then =D

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Hmm... I can't see what you see, but I guess that all depends on when you look...

Attached are comparison screenshots from yesterday night.

What I noticed though is that there seem to be (how do I put that politely) more younger controllers on IVAO... a lot younger, if you know what I mean.

On VATSIM you have the occasional youngster who hasn't been flying for long, which is perfectly fine.

But yesterday I had to listen to a pilot who had to explain the SID to the controller in a lengthy discussion... which is... weird...

Anyway, for the most part I don't care whether it's VATSIM or IVAO, as long as it is one of the two ;-)

vatsim.th.jpg

ivaoc.th.jpg

vatsim2.th.jpg

ivao2.th.jpg

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Darn, I ought to have another look at IVAO then =D

Same here!

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@Sayuuk,

I don't care about VATSIM or IVAO either. I have used both networks and both do a good job AFAIK.

For my European flying I use IVAO because the number of controllers available is usualy higher at the times that I fly.

Another reason for me to use IVAO is that FSInn and UTX2 don't play nice together while I don't have any issues with IVAP.

The ocasional newb controller happens on both networks and both have ways to control them.

But, as a wise simmer said: Anyway, for the most part I don't care whether it's VATSIM or IVAO, as long as it is one of the two ;-)

:lol:

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Sayuuk, I support you on the VATSIM. Love that network, and agree with you on all your points.

Hell, I could also try controlling air traffic. I know the other side, so it shouldn't be too hard!

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I've connected to VAE's server a couple of times today and not had the dreaded Port error. Must have updated this issue? Not enough folks online to really test it though.

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I've connected to VAE's server a couple of times today and not had the dreaded Port error. Must have updated this issue? Not enough folks online to really test it though.

I saw you James, both in game as in the VAE livemap on the web.

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Had you also Tobus along with one other. I logged back on after 8 last night but had an issue in that someone else who was logged into TS3 and VAE's server. We could not see each other!! So that part of it is still an ongoing concern if we can't see everyone who are logged in!

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