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odin78

Sorry Aerosoft... not impressed!

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Ok, maybe this post is just to get out some frustration... however, I think you guys at Aerosoft can stand som critisism also. What is so frustrating is the fact that it is such a great modelled plane and the sounds and controls are amazing, BUT, at the same time, you have left out (in my opinion) the most important piece... the 2D panel. There are waaaaay to many buttons and switches to press and the Track ID technology is not good enough to let us multitask while the cabin or picture is shaking from side to side. I think the biggest mistake is that people are trying to create something close to the real thing and forget that a simulator will ALWAYS be a simulator and we need to try and keep it simple, but at the same time believable. Also, such small details, such as the wingview wich is not modelled into the cabin view is disapointing. The sound in wingview is so loud you can't possibly enjoy it for more than a few seconds. And it's a shame, because the wing view is abselutely amazing.

I cincerely hope, that in the future you will provide us with a 2D panel. Don't get me wrong, the VC is outstanding, but for complex tasks such as setting up the FMC and takeoff and landing, only a 2D panel will work in my (and I'm very sure in many other's) case. For now, I'm going back to Wilco's airbus. Although the model is not nearly as nice as yours, it has the full package, VC, 2D panel, modelled interior, good sounds and wingviews with interior sound.

Also, I would like to point out, that I'm really looking forward to your CRJ release, but if it is also missing the things mentioned above I think you are loosing costumers because of this. So please take this into consideration before releasing your products.

Sorry to be so negative, but I'm a big costumer of Aerosoft and I feel that gives me the right to give some critisism. ;)

Happy new years!

Regards,

Andreas

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Hi Andreas,

I agree with you that there are certain things missing which would make the bus much more flyable also in non-standard situations. Standard situation being the evening simmer sitting down, loading a flight plan and fly from a to b all with autopilot.

2D panels for at least some of the flying aspects would be very welcome. Someone has already tried to have the PFD, ND and ECAM displays but that does not work very well for me and crashes FSX (more than usual;)).

I would therefore like to see at least:

PFD external

ND external

ECAM external

MCDU

That would be very helpful as you can move around in the panel and still see the PFD or make changes in the MCDU without flying blind.

Creating additional 3D windows is not an option since my system isn't the strongest and it reduces performance even more.

And then there would be some more such as SID and STARs and then I would decide to use the AirbusX far more often in ATC guided flight.

Kosta

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Hi Andreas,

I agree with you that there are certain things missing which would make the bus much more flyable also in non-standard situations. Standard situation being the evening simmer sitting down, loading a flight plan and fly from a to b all with autopilot.

2D panels for at least some of the flying aspects would be very welcome. Someone has already tried to have the PFD, ND and ECAM displays but that does not work very well for me and crashes FSX (more than usual;)).

I would therefore like to see at least:

PFD external

ND external

ECAM external

MCDU

That would be very helpful as you can move around in the panel and still see the PFD or make changes in the MCDU without flying blind.

Creating additional 3D windows is not an option since my system isn't the strongest and it reduces performance even more.

And then there would be some more such as SID and STARs and then I would decide to use the AirbusX far more often in ATC guided flight.

Kosta

I'm not sure if it's my Track IR thats not so good, but with mine there is too much shaking in the cockpit to hit the correct buttons. When I want to adjust the altitude I sometimes adjust the speed knob by mistake as well. This really frustrates me when there are alot going on at the same time! Also, my track IR does not allow me to look all the way down at the pedistal and the numbers on the FMC are way too small for me to see.

I'm wondering, when you have a 2D panel and pan/look to your right or left you see your VCockpit. Is it not possible to at least make it so you have a fixed view of your VC when in cockpit/2D panel mode? That would at least help alot! But, I don't think this is possible though...

Oh well... I'm not flying the AirbusX anymore anyway... and it's a real shame, because it's the best model out there... but I need to be able to fly her as well.

Andreas

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I think you should seriously consider reinstalling the Bus and giving it a try through the VC. The VC is something that one has to get used to, but once you do, it's awesome. The Bus is the first addon i've bought without a 2D and after a week or so, I got used to it and it's basically the only plane I've been using for the past couple of months. And also, Aerosoft does have an extensive feature listing on the website and I'm almost certain it states the lack of 2D panels on the bus.

Give the Bus another try! It'll be worth it!

Happy New Years,

-Matt

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I think you should seriously consider reinstalling the Bus and giving it a try through the VC. The VC is something that one has to get used to, but once you do, it's awesome. -Matt

I agree. I was a die hard 2d panel guy in FS9. With FSX, MS ditched cockpit side views for 2d panels. Not seeing a portion of the cockpit when I looked from left to right seemed really unrealistic to me and you can't fly just looking forward. All FSX aircraft must have a VC IMHO and if you make a good one, the 2d becomes irrelevant once you get used to it. The Airbus X is not perfect by any means but something they got right was the VC.

As far as the head movement is concerned, pick up EZDok so you can create zoomed camera views for different areas in the cockpit. For example, I have one for the overhead, one for the glareshield, one for the FMC... You can create them with no effects at all and they are just as easy to use as pop up panels.

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Ok, maybe this post is just to get out some frustration... however, I think you guys at Aerosoft can stand som critisism also. What is so frustrating is the fact that it is such a great modelled plane and the sounds and controls are amazing, BUT, at the same time, you have left out (in my opinion) the most important piece... the 2D panel. There are waaaaay to many buttons and switches to press and the Track ID technology is not good enough to let us multitask while the cabin or picture is shaking from side to side. I think the biggest mistake is that people are trying to create something close to the real thing and forget that a simulator will ALWAYS be a simulator and we need to try and keep it simple, but at the same time believable. Also, such small details, such as the wingview wich is not modelled into the cabin view is disapointing. The sound in wingview is so loud you can't possibly enjoy it for more than a few seconds. And it's a shame, because the wing view is abselutely amazing.

I cincerely hope, that in the future you will provide us with a 2D panel. Don't get me wrong, the VC is outstanding, but for complex tasks such as setting up the FMC and takeoff and landing, only a 2D panel will work in my (and I'm very sure in many other's) case. For now, I'm going back to Wilco's airbus. Although the model is not nearly as nice as yours, it has the full package, VC, 2D panel, modelled interior, good sounds and wingviews with interior sound.

Also, I would like to point out, that I'm really looking forward to your CRJ release, but if it is also missing the things mentioned above I think you are loosing costumers because of this. So please take this into consideration before releasing your products.

Sorry to be so negative, but I'm a big costumer of Aerosoft and I feel that gives me the right to give some critisism. ;)

Happy new years!

Regards,

Andreas

Sorry, but the problem is the way you have Track ID set up I think. Using the normal FSX head latency effect and looking around the VC using the controller hat switch, I have no issue with not being able to use knobs or buttons and with the zoom set to 80%, I am more than happy just looking down and and using the MCDU.

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I'm not sure if it's my Track IR thats not so good, but with mine there is too much shaking in the cockpit to hit the correct buttons. When I want to adjust the altitude I sometimes adjust the speed knob by mistake as well. This really frustrates me when there are alot going on at the same time! Also, my track IR does not allow me to look all the way down at the pedistal and the numbers on the FMC are way too small for me to see.

I'm wondering, when you have a 2D panel and pan/look to your right or left you see your VCockpit. Is it not possible to at least make it so you have a fixed view of your VC when in cockpit/2D panel mode? That would at least help alot! But, I don't think this is possible though...

Oh well... I'm not flying the AirbusX anymore anyway... and it's a real shame, because it's the best model out there... but I need to be able to fly her as well.

Andreas

The way I am using TrackIR is that I focus on the equipment I need to use / press / switch and then pause TrackIR. Normally one sets up the pause function as a middle mouse button press as anyways you would use the mouse to operate the switch or turnknob. So use TrackIR to focus, pause with middle mouse button, use the mouse to operate the knob then unpause and TrackIR resumes normal operation. In case it gets miscentered then just use the other TrackIR funtion of defaulting the views. For me this way everything is absolutely manageable from the VC.

Alex

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I'm using TrackIR too and do all my flying exclusively in VC mode. It took time to get used to it, but it works very well and once it works the immersion is awesome.

I could think of only two reasons where I'd want to use 2D panels:

1. suboptimally designed, hard-to-hit-them-right clickspots in the VC or functionality not modeled in the VC at all (this should not happen, but some addon devs still do it)

2. using external hardware and home-built cockpits

VC/TrackIR is the way to go!

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The way I am using TrackIR is that I focus on the equipment I need to use / press / switch and then pause TrackIR. Normally one sets up the pause function as a middle mouse button press as anyways you would use the mouse to operate the switch or turnknob. So use TrackIR to focus, pause with middle mouse button, use the mouse to operate the knob then unpause and TrackIR resumes normal operation. In case it gets miscentered then just use the other TrackIR funtion of defaulting the views. For me this way everything is absolutely manageable from the VC.

Alex

Interesting. I didn't know you could pause TrackIR. That would definitely help a lot. I do too like VC's, however I use them on simpler aircraft such as the cessna or twin otter. I just feel like with such a complex airplane like the airbus a 2D panel would be extremely helpful. That's my opinion however, but I do understand that the 2d panel era is slowly dying.

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You, like I, need to get a hold of Paul Goldings specs, as if like me, you go through all of this forum, you will find that Paul Golding never has a single problem with anything....a bit of a David Watts of the skies!Where everyone else is a "poor and simple lad"

A useful contribution indeed :rolleyes:

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team

this topic has been hijacked by the "affirmatives" trying to convince as experienced others that VC only is the only way.

i like andreas & kosta would like a 2D capability though i suspect it will not be forthcoming even in V2.

pop-up panels of MCDU & ECAM at least and preferably as well the pedestal area & overhead.

i am at a loss trying to understand how the time with extra switching, panning, zooming etc. (apart from blind flying as kosta mentions) is " user friendly" or "real". it is hardly a simple input process whilst your simming.

for me, it is counter intuitive to try to use the VC concept for more than it was intended (scanning & panning) - if it wasn't for fsuipc key / button programming (for input), there would be far less interest in VC.

for now, i'll keep watching hoping one of the many trying will successfully provide 2D pop-ups for us to use in our presently parked airbus. i haven't resorted to wilco's version but do enjoy boeings for now.

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team

this topic has been hijacked by the "affirmatives" trying to convince as experienced others that VC only is the only way.

i like andreas & kosta would like a 2D capability though i suspect it will not be forthcoming even in V2.

pop-up panels of MCDU & ECAM at least and preferably as well the pedestal area & overhead.

i am at a loss trying to understand how the time with extra switching, panning, zooming etc. (apart from blind flying as kosta mentions) is " user friendly" or "real". it is hardly a simple input process whilst your simming.

for me, it is counter intuitive to try to use the VC concept for more than it was intended (scanning & panning) - if it wasn't for fsuipc key / button programming (for input), there would be far less interest in VC.

for now, i'll keep watching hoping one of the many trying will successfully provide 2D pop-ups for us to use in our presently parked airbus. i haven't resorted to wilco's version but do enjoy boeings for now.

You would seem to have a very different idea about what "user friendly", "real", and "intuitive" mean from the definitions you would find in a dictionary. I suspect your ideas are closer to "thats the way i have always done it" with a hint of "i'm scared to change". If that is the case, I can sell you a copy of FS98 cheap. Runs like stink on modern hardware!

A single flat panel display was necessary once because that was all our computers could manage. As our computers got more powerful, the flat panels got prettier and we got more of them. The high point of flat panel development are probably the 2D display panels found in PMDGs MD11, which are truely a work of art. However, at the end of the day, they are still just flat panels and are not even as good as the VC in that same model. Useful if you have crappy or ancient hardware, but still only a first approximation of what a pilot interacts with. VC's while not yet perfect, are at least a 2nd approximation, and if using TrackIR or similar interface, then they reach a third level approximation. Only a physical simulator is going to be better.

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Just a quick input (and closure of the topic).

We simply do not believe that 2D panels are the right way to go in FSX. We strongly believe the panels should all look as they are seen by the pilots. So in perspective, with shading, in full color etc. I know other addon developers have different ideas and that's fine. But the Airbus will stay as it is, no 2D panels. Sorry.

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