Blue Screen with GTX 460

[rocky 118]

Aplogies if I am posting in the wrong section of this forum but, PLEASE, PLEASE somebody help! I'm at my wits end. I've become completely obsessed with FSX over the past few months and

as

such have spent far more money that I should, or could afford. I decided from the start that I was not going to play around with overclocking or change anything that may compromise the operating system,

as

I wanted to try and avoid any possible problems (ironic.)

As

such I have a pretty good rig, Intel i7 950 processor, with 4Gb RAM, 650W power unit, FS running off it's own Sata drive and I have recently upgraded from a Nvidia 9600 GT to the new GTX 460, and here is my problem! I began a flight after having had the new card installed and within one minute of flying the whole thing crashed to a blue screen. I have now uninstalled the driver using a driver clean tool, reinstalled in safe mode and have done this three times and still have not eradicated the problem. I have tried various drivers, including the latest beta driver and that was a joke, simply had no picture to speak of at all! I find it incomprehensible that, bearing in mind that I am not alone, that Nvidia cannot simply offer an explanation which can put an end to this outrage... and I use the word outrage with due consideration, after I've paid £180 for what seems to be a useless upgrade! Please can someone help...

[Snave 466]

Firstly, calm down. Only a bad workman blames his tools. Only after human error is eradicated can we assume the card is `outrageous`... Until then, operator error remains the likeliest suspect.

Let's look at this with logic, not emotion:

1: Have you removed the old card reference from the FSX.cfg?

2: Did you reinstall or change FSX in any way since putting the new card in the box?

3: IIRC the GTX460 requires two 6-pin power connectors. ARE BOTH PROPERLY CONNECTED?

4: What have you done to ensure FSX `recognises` the new card? Did you rebuild the shader model?

5: Are you sure your system is capable of driving a GTX460? 650W should be power enough, but the card does specify a MINIMUM of 450w, so if you have other power-hungry and wattage-sapping hardware, you could be suffering a power outage, not a driver breakdown. The blue screen tends to suggest something other than a driver problem whcih leads me to:

6: Which driver clean tool did you use and what systemology did you use to replace the driver? Some cleaners are more troubles than they are worth.

..and yes, this is the wrong forum. Why not take five minutes to consider WHERE to post before doing so, rather than apologising. This too, might be a clue as to where the problem lies.

[rocky 118]

Hi Snave, thanks for replying so quickly and apologies if I sound a little frantic! I have to own up to not being too clued up with certain computer jargon and there lies my problem. So please bear with me... What is the old FSX. cfg card reference? FSX has not been changed since installing the 460. The two pin power connectors, have not checked as the machine is with a techie at the moment. Aplogies Snave, but rebuild the shader model? As for cleaning the driver, I used DH Driver clean professional. I uninstalled the original driver, rebooted in safe mode, ignored windows trying to install it's own drivers, I then ran driver cleaner, rebooted windows in safe mode again and then finally installed the drivers. The problem persists...

[Snave 466]

OK, staying away from the hardware installation, WHENEVER you change drivers on your system there is a problem with the FSX .cfg installing the new card information but failing to remove the older.

This is a known problem that can affect the stability of the FSX installation and takes seconds to fix...

Open the FSX .cfg (I must assume that you have searched for information of the location of this, this is a forum for the more sophisticated simmer, but if you haven't I'm sure a search will provide the location for your OS) and search for the video driver and card reference, something like:

[DISPLAY.Device. NVidia 9600GT.0]

Mode=1440x900x32

Anisotropic=1

Then look again for a second reference for the new GTX card. There should only be ONE reference. DELETE BOTH INSTANCES, INCLUDING THE LINES BENEATH, as above.

Then find the line that reads

SHADER_CACHE_VERSION=913001 (your numbers will be different but that doesn't matter)

Change the number to a different sequence - it does NOT have to be the same number of numbers, it can be just a change of the last number to the next highest or lowest,help yourself.

Close and save the FSX.cfg

Relaunch sim. at launch you will see the menu system reset the shaders (the progress bar crawls across the screen but with no tag detailing what it is doing). When sim opens go to the display menu and reset display preferences (display resolution, filtering, AA if set inside the sim) and go fly.

If you don't get a CTD, the problem is fixed.

If not, and assuming you are using Windows 7 (you completely fail to mention what OS you are running in your original rant, wasting still more time) then you need to apply the UIAutomationcore.dll fix - search Google for that very, very simple fix.

If it is neither of these, return for further information.

[rocky 118]

Hey man, blimey, you certainly sound as though you know your stuff! OK, let me apologise for not mentioning that I am running XP and not 7. This is only my second time on a forum and I have only been into FSX for three months, so bear with me, we all have to start somewhere! I was hoping to have had the PC returned to me this evening, it looks like I will have to have it tomorrow. I will then try and follow your instructions. Thanks again for your time and hopefully I will have a result before too long, cheers.

[Snave 466]

Hey man, blimey, you certainly sound as though you know your stuff! OK, let me apologise for not mentioning that I am running XP and not 7. This is only my second time on a forum and I have only been into FSX for three months, so bear with me, we all have to start somewhere! I was hoping to have had the PC returned to me this evening, it looks like I will have to have it tomorrow. I will then try and follow your instructions. Thanks again for your time and hopefully I will have a result before too long, cheers.

Then DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use the UIAutomation fix.

Everything else applies.

In addition, XP 32 CANNOT use 4 gig of RAM. XP64 can, but once again insufficient information... If you are using 32-bit XP then remove one gig of RAM. Your Hardware techie should KNOW this and already have advised you.

And once again, we still don't know what version of FSX you are running? Default? SP1? SP2? Acceleration..?

SP2 and above introduced a change to the FSX .exe. Please tell me what version of the sim you are running, and then right click on the FSX.exe - Properties - and provide the version information... 10.0.61637.0 is the current active Acceleration version.

[rocky 118]

Hi Snave, ahh OK, Sure it's XP with Service Pk3, FSX with SP1 and SP2 (not acceleration) The guys at the store have been trying to sort things out for me all yesterday afternoon! I guess it needs someone like yourself who understands FSX to offer advice. They have had no joy so have replaced the card! I feel in my water that is not the problem so I will begin with your suggestions later this afternoon. Thanks again for your advice...

[Snave 466]

The removal of a gig of RAM will be a store option. Have them do it as chances are they've used 2-gig ram sticks in two slots and if YOU do it you'd lose 2-gig of RAM by removing a stick, not one... they need to install matched RAM.

Have THEM test FSX for you, while you are in the store. If necessary, send them the information above.

We still need to see the version info for the FSX.exe...

[rocky 118]

Hi Snave, thanks again for the input. Just so I can summarise the situation. I am in the hands of the tech guys at the store as I think they have got the challenge between their teeth and so want to sort it out as much as I do! So far, after being here, I went over to the store today and they asked me to sit in with them... they have replaced the original card with another, just in case it was a bum card. I know you said it is likely to be a software issue, but we were just eliminating any cause, no matter how unlikely. Then we uninstalled everything on the drive, which is a dedicated Sata drive only for FSX. So we were left with a complete blank canvas, with no FSX or add ons. We did this after uninstalling all the add ons, scenery, aircraft etc. We then rebooted and installed default FSX and then installed Service pk 1, rebooted and installed Service pk 2, rebooted and started a flight.... guess what?..... One minute into the flight , bang the darn BSOD!!!!!!

So, a brand new install of FSX, with no add ons, after the graphic card had been installed and still the same problem. Sheesh... I spoke to the techie about the RAM and he said, yes there is 4G of RAM but XP only recognises 3G (we know), to have matching RAM you need either 2 or 4

Windows XP service pk3 on drive C with operating system, F drive dedicated for FSX, i7 950 CPU, 650W Corsair PU, 3 (4)G RAM.

They are now going to wipe the dedicated drive and install a brand new XP OS, followed by FSX, so the operating system and FSX will both share their own drive together, with nothing else on it whatsoever. If this test works, I will simply have a drawer system where I swap from my day to day drive that I use for business, to the dedicated drive that has FSX on it, along with it's own operating system.... that's the story so far, whadya think?

[Snave 466]

Blue screen CTD's are rarely, if ever, a symptom of a problem with FSX per se. Rather it is a symptom of a problem with a hardware or software element of the system, a weakness exposed by the high demands of FSX. I still see no evidence that the C:/ drive based FSX.cfg was removed or checked, no evidence that the drive to which FSX was installed was properly and correctly defragged, and no signs that the power supply was checked to ensure that it is capable of running everything under the load placed upon it by FSX.

Also another element that CAN cause a CTD is sound. No mention of what sound is utilised on this system. make no mistake, FSX drives sound cards just as hard as graphic cards.

It seems to me - and others watching this topic - that you tech guys are straw-clutchers. They need a proper, cognitive load-path analysis for your system BEFORE they try troubleshooting FSX.

We can troubleshoot FSX, but if the system is prone to failure that isn't really anything we can help with.

[Racn 1]

I tried the GTX 460 as well on my Windows XP 32 bit operating system. I got the blue screen of death on many applications I tried. After discussing this with the Tech at the store it was concluded that the motherboard bus speed wasnt good enough. The card is supposed to be backwards compatible with older systems but the Tech told me that it was going to give problems most likely. I returned the card and put my old GTS 8800, no more blue screens of death.

[Guest Paul D.]

hi,

my brother got the same problems with a new 460 a week ago. Bluescreen on every 3D app after a few seconds. 2D (Windows) holds longer but got a Bluescreen too.

His Spec were AMD X4 CPU, Gigabyte MB, 6Gig Ram and no name PowerSupply.

We thought it could be the Power Supply. We tested mine in his PC - same Bluescreen.

We checked the 460 in my System - everything worked. (with my PowerSupply - 550W BeQuiet)

The end of the Story was: His Gigabyte Motherboard doesnt work with the !Gigabyte! Geforce 460!!! (Gigabyte told him so)

So he bought another GPU and was happy. He didnt want to change the MB cause Gigabyte is normally a good MB-Developer.

perhaps that helps.

[bionicCrab 7]

2D windows still uses the pixel shader and draws on extra power...

[rocky 118]

Hi guys, thanks all the the information and letting me share your own experiences! I think together we've discovered the crunch to this issue that I have seen plagued around the internet. I am a newbie to forums and to FSX, so I'm not up to speed with all the abbreviations and techno speak, but I do have a logical head on my shoulders and by the process of elimination, I think I'm right in saying that it's a good way of dealing with problems you cannot fathom. Today I have come to the same conclusion as you guys.... the GTX 460 has some incompatible issue with the Gigabyte motherboards. I have also seen this suggested elsewhere. I may be wrong, but I hope not. So today I arrived at the computer store, not PC World, but a highly respected and dedicated bunch of guys, where I arrived to collect my kit. I had already reinstalled FSX after having reformatted the drive, run registry cleaner, antivirus and adaware, booted in safe mode and then installed latest drivers... but as you may know this was all to no avail. Today I decided FSX would have it's own Sata drive with it's own XP operating system with absolutely nothing else sharing the drive, no IE no antivirus, nothing! New drivers for GPU, new Bios for motherboard, reboot, fly FSX and then..... S..T The bloody BSOD, again !!!!!!!! OK, this must surely now have eradicated any software issue, It has to be the GTX460, but hang on, this was the second card we were trying, yes, it can surely be only the motherboard incompatibility issue I have been reading so much about, can't it? Well, the techie working on this problem is going to replace the 460 with a Radeon 5850, to see how it performs. I hope this works, otherwise I will be giving up on FSX as I won't know which way to turn! I will be checking this out on Wednesday so stay tuned and I'll let you guys know the outcome. If it runs OK, then surely this must be the final, unequivical evidence of the Gigabyte's incompatibility with the GTX460, I hope so, because it will then mean I can get on with some decent flying!! watch this space.... Apologies if any of my observations are incorrect, contentious or laughable! Bear with me, I'm a newbie!!

Windows XP 32bit, FSX, i7 950 @ 3.07Ghz, 4Gb Ram (3Gb), Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R with onboard audio, Corsair TX650

[rocky 118]

Just to let you know, I got rid of the GTX 460 and instantly had no BSOD after running with and Asus 58501gb card... not sure if you agree, but to me that's proof that the Nvidia card is incompatible with the GigabyteGA-EX58-UD3R motherboard.