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I echo your comment. I think honesty and transparency has been at the very top on this project, all credit to Mathijs.

Regards

D

+1000 - Having been a customer of Mathijs' back to his Lago days I can attest to his honesty and transparency.

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I have a question, why has the Airbus X no wingflex? I love the Wingflex

Yes thats right, you are just a beta tester, yet you are still able to make comment on the intended customer base. What makes me assume, is the same way you assume in a previous posting that the in

Lost the release window for today. We got an issue on a clean machine we test the installers on and for the last few hours we were not able to track it down. Very pissed off but working on it. Sor

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The Preliminary and incomplete pdf file that was on the forum from Aerosoft says the AirbusX is going to be great for online flying.The section on the MCDU Flight Plan page but says nothing if sids and stars can be used and for online flying you will need to be able to add those.Will the Airbus be able to use arrivals and departure procedures?

JeffG

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The Preliminary and incomplete pdf file that was on the forum from Aerosoft says the AirbusX is going to be great for online flying.The section on the MCDU Flight Plan page but says nothing if sids and stars can be used and for online flying you will need to be able to add those.Will the Airbus be able to use arrivals and departure procedures?

JeffG

Read through the thread and you will find the answers you seek. I currently fly the aircraft in my sig block with manually programmed SIDs and STARs so you are incorrect in saying that they are required in order to fly online.

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The SID STAR arguing has gone on since we announced the making of this Airbus.

In that announcement and up tp today we have told more then 100 times that we don´t compete with PMDG, Level-D or any othe high end addon developer.

This Airbus has right from the start been pointet at the newcommers annd those who don´t have the time to go into depth with 500 pages manuals (actually the largest part of simmers are middle aged men with family and house)

SO !! Please stop requesting the implementation of SID/STAR and Airways - it won´t happen with the release version.

I have flown on VATSIM for many years, so don´t tell me that having SID´s and STARS are a requirement. Most often have I been vectored in by ATC or You can requets vestors.

Many SID's and STARS don´t contain more than max 6 waypoints. They can be punched in within a minutte.

Problem sometimes is that Flight Simulator customers demand even more functionality than the real Airlines :D

Finn

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Being on VATSIM myself I don´t see the problem - sorry.

Having included SID/STARS would offcourse have been more realistic, we never claimed the opposite, but we also stated that this isn´t the most realistic aircraft addon available - just read the manual available here: http://www.forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?showtopic=37355&view=findpost&p=245585

We have been totally honest reagrding what this addon is and what it is not.

If You find it interesting with the features listed - buy it , if not then there are other alternatives like Wilco and the other (wich I´m not allowed to name).

Finn

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Just as SpeedbirdCraig said, you can use SID and STARS, you just need to be able to read the charts then just write them in the MCDU using (normally, depends on the approach) Place/Bearing/Distance, and voilá, it would take one minute to do that!

Cheers,

Miguel Santos

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For those that are unhappy with the SID/STAR situation, may I suggest taking out your favourite aeroplane and have a little practice with the FMC. I presume all here have access to and are reasonably familiar with the necessary charts - if not perhaps we should run a tutorial. I spent a happy hour on the ground with the B737 recently, and very useful it was. You don't need to be airborne to do it, just sit on the ramp and fiddle.

Rob.

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SIDS and STARS... sigh... I would like to know from some real life pilots how often they actually fly a (complete) STAR. Hardly ever, I think. And this goes for ALL the functions the 'hardcore simmers' are begging for all the time. This Airbus X will let you experience everything a real life Airbus pilot does and encounters in real life. If there will ever be an advanced version, I wonder how much of the added functions will actually be used in real life! Hardly ever.

This Airbus will give me the experience a real life pilot has and that's all I need. I don't need tons of failures which never or hardly ever happen in real life. I don't need the possibility to manually operate all systems when this never or hardly ever is done in real life. I don't need STARS which are hardly ever flown in real life.

I think 'hardcore simmers' lost track of what real life flying is about nowadays: getting the passengers safe from A to B with as little interference from pilots as possible. B) The Airbus isn't made for diehards who love to push as much buttons as possible and who like to keep manual control of everything. That's totally unrealistic. And so this Airbux X will give us everything we need to simulate a REALISTIC flight, as they are done in real life everyday. Isn't that what we all want...? If you want to do it the Hollywood way, wait for the advanced version. :P

(I am exaggerating, obviously, so don't take everything too seriously, but I hope you do get my point!)

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I completely understand the fact that this is not realistic, however until FSlabs releases there truly advanced A32x then it will do for me. Wilco is utter crap and not an option for me.

The argument you can not use this addon online is complete rubbish.... you can fly all sid and stars, or DCT on departure, or even holds (Stopwatch handy). I would have no issue doing this on a busy flyin event, even with last second changes from ATC.

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The fact is this add-on is not meant to 100% realistic. Instead it is aimed at people who like to fly something more engaging than the default planes, yet not so complex to set up as say a PMDG-aircraft. These simmers don't care if the waypoint is named correctly, they just want to have some quick fun. In Vibraman's mind, this add-on is not "realistic" if the waypoints are not named right. The "target audience" for this product couldn't give a [add your own expletive here].

There are a lot of "hard core"-simmers posting here that want this add-on to be something that it is not designed to be: a 100% realistic simulation of an Airbus. You can see it in their posts. For example: "hard core"-pilots automatically associate "on-line flying" with flying on VATSIM or IVAO. But the term "on-line flying" is much broader than that and can include flying on let's say the MS-server. Therefor, the Aerosoft-statement is not incorrect.

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I´m getting very tired of the SID/STAR issue...

It´s very simple: this addon won´t have SID/STAR implemented: buy it or not...very simple...no one will be forced to buy it...

How many percent of the future costumers will use this bus for online flying ???? 2 percent??? 5 percent???

No, even better: how many (typical) customers will know what a SID/STAR is at all???

Aerosoft is selling/developing addons not just for fun, but for economic success.

And the "I cannot fly an aircraft without a SID and STAR"-user is NOT the target group of this addon.

Timo

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I kind agree with you regarding to STAR since at that time and if flying online with ATC (even worse in Flyin events) one man doing it all can be really crazy and gives a very high work flow, if stars were available at the MCDU it would be so much easier. I don't complain too much about the SID since as while on the ground we have time to introduce it. I would like if this bus had the possibility to have preprogramed SID's and STAR's and holdings, but well, it doesn't so there's not much we can do, it's the company decision and we have to accept it, buying or not is our decision. Also please remember that Aerosoft will probably do a more advanced version, but there's not many words about it, even if Aerosoft decide not to make it FSlabs is doing one, but who knows how long it would take, theres another company doing a basic and a advanced version, but we shall not say it's name unless you want to be cursed! lol

Cheers!

Miguel Santos

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And why did Aerosoft then advertise with:

"Ideally suited for virtual airline users, online flying and people who want a realistic experience without having to spend many hours preparing for a flight."

For sure you can use this add-on online as well as the default Airbus from FSX. BUT it is not "Ideally suited" you understand now ?

I can honestly admit I have no idea what a Sid or star is and I don't fly online. So none of this applies to me.

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I'm really starting to despair at the recurring, senseless criticism about the Airbus. Although I doubt I'll be able to prevent the next person from going into hysterics about how a certain feature or other is missing, maybe this analogy will help:

*customer 1 comes into the AppleSoft store*

Customer1: YAY, I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NEW APPLE321! I HOPE IT HAS SHELLFLEX!

AppleSoft: No, sorry, ShellFlex is a feature you'll find in other products like FruitBat's Orange800, or TropiFood's BananaX.

C1: HOW CAN YOU NOT HAVE SHELLFLEX?!

AS: Well, it just wouldn't make sense integrating it into the Apple321...we could, but it would greatly reduce performance and add no real effe-

C1: BUT EVERYONE ELSE IS IMPLEMENTING SHELLFLEX!! HOW CAN YOU NOT?! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!

AS: Hey, if you want a product with ShellFlex, you're more than happy to purchase the Orange800 or BananaX instead...they're also great produce. No one is forcing you to buy our Apple321.

C1: I DON'T CARE! I DEMAND YOU ADD SHELLFLEX TO THE APPLE321!

AS: Sir...please...it's an apple, ok? Our shell isn't intended to flex. It's completely different from orange shells or kiwi shells...it's an apple. The shell has to be apple-like. So ShellFlex would make absolutely no sense.

C1: I'M NOT BUYING YOUR STUPID PRODUCT UNLESS YOU ADD IT!

*customer 2 comes into the store*

C2: Hello! I'm very interested in the Apple321...it looks great! Will it have full SlipperyPeel functionality?

AS: No, no...it's an Apple, you see. Our goal was to make it as apple-like and enjoyable to everyone as possible.

C2: Wait...how can you not have full SlipperyPeel functionality? TropiFood has it in their BananaX, after all!

AS: Well yes...they're selling a Banana, after all. Their target customers are looking for something much more banana-y than ours.

C2: What a rip off! You even say in your advertising that the Apple321 is great for "taking along to the park"...how can you take it along to the park without full SlipperyPeel functionality?!

AS: Erm...why shouldn't you be able to take the Apple321 to the park without it? It's hardly a prerequisite for that.

C2: Are you kidding me?! Only serious fruit-eaters take their fruit along to the park, and they wouldn't be caught dead there without full SlipperyPeel functionality! Your product sucks!

C1: AND IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE SHELLFLEX!

C2: *blinks* So?

C1: WAAAH!

AS: *facepalm*

Sound familiar?

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I'm really starting to despair at the recurring, senseless criticism about the Airbus. Although I doubt I'll be able to prevent the next person from going into hysterics about how a certain feature or other is missing, maybe this analogy will help:

*customer 1 comes into the AppleSoft store*

Customer1: YAY, I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NEW APPLE321! I HOPE IT HAS SHELLFLEX!

AppleSoft: No, sorry, ShellFlex is a feature you'll find in other products like FruitBat's Orange800, or TropiFood's BananaX.

C1: HOW CAN YOU NOT HAVE SHELLFLEX?!

AS: Well, it just wouldn't make sense integrating it into the Apple321...we could, but it would greatly reduce performance and add no real effe-

C1: BUT EVERYONE ELSE IS IMPLEMENTING SHELLFLEX!! HOW CAN YOU NOT?! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!

AS: Hey, if you want a product with ShellFlex, you're more than happy to purchase the Orange800 or BananaX instead...they're also great produce. No one is forcing you to buy our Apple321.

C1: I DON'T CARE! I DEMAND YOU ADD SHELLFLEX TO THE APPLE321!

AS: Sir...please...it's an apple, ok? Our shell isn't intended to flex. It's completely different from orange shells or kiwi shells...it's an apple. The shell has to be apple-like. So ShellFlex would make absolutely no sense.

C1: I'M NOT BUYING YOUR STUPID PRODUCT UNLESS YOU ADD IT!

*customer 2 comes into the store*

C2: Hello! I'm very interested in the Apple321...it looks great! Will it have full SlipperyPeel functionality?

AS: No, no...it's an Apple, you see. Our goal was to make it as apple-like and enjoyable to everyone as possible.

C2: Wait...how can you not have full SlipperyPeel functionality? TropiFood has it in their BananaX, after all!

AS: Well yes...they're selling a Banana, after all. Their target customers are looking for something much more banana-y than ours.

C2: What a rip off! You even say in your advertising that the Apple321 is great for "taking along to the park"...how can you take it along to the park without full SlipperyPeel functionality?!

AS: Erm...why shouldn't you be able to take the Apple321 to the park without it? It's hardly a prerequisite for that.

C2: Are you kidding me?! Only serious fruit-eaters take their fruit along to the park, and they wouldn't be caught dead there without full SlipperyPeel functionality! Your product sucks!

C1: AND IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE SHELLFLEX!

C2: *blinks* So?

C1: WAAAH!

AS: *facepalm*

Sound familiar?

I agree; LETS CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Its pointless and a waste of time to cover the same topic about a feature that is not provided in the first place. It ain't gonna change anything. I will keep my FPS and have less detail system-wise any day! I won't use sids and stars anyway. There is a silent majority here in simmers who just want to fly and not use systems that over complicate the sim! Most of this majority do not post on FS forums either. Case closed!

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FCOM, bird... You sure sound like the real McCoy... I've added a picture of how my company uses computer software for safety training, and I can assure you, it's not Microsoft, I think you wouldn't even call it realistic from the looks... 23443939.th.jpg

Touche...and Amen..

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I've followed this discussion for quite some time now, and thought I'd give my thoughts on the matter. What you are saying is simply not true. I fly the a320, and I hardly ever fly a star procedure direct from the FMC. Simply because ATC will not let us. The same for autoland, we never use it,under normal circumstances, company policy. My son got me to follow this forum, because he started asking questions about wingflex and sids. Something I like, being a proud father and hoping he will be the next generation to take the left seat. And ever since the various topics make me smile. If you want it to be as real as it gets let the wingflex go, it's hardly noticeable. Strictly speaking don't fly any commercial aircraft at all, because it is not realistic. For realism stick to a c172. My son uses it to prepare for his ppl. Excelent to practise principles of flight and navigation. I have tried various aircraft and most say it is quite fun, but lets not make it more the it actually is.

Nice to hear something from 2 real pilots.

I was just curious. Why let ATC not fly the sid's or star's or not fly them completly? Is it because of heavy traffic? Or is it a matter of security?

Regards

Eric

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The people in this thread who keep demanding SIDs and STARs are added to facilitate online flying are doing the online flying community a great disservice. As has been stated many times most of the customer group for this aircraft dont even know what SIDs and STARs are let alone how to program them. Many of these same customers I am sure, would like to try their hand at online flying. However, not only are they being led to believe by some that online flying is not possible without SIDs and STARs, but they will be far to intimidated by the agressive tone of certain hardcore online flyers who have been throwing tantrums on these forume since this project was announced to even consider flying online. Not exactly a great advert for online flying, so lets finally let this subject rest and move on.

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Nice to hear something from 2 real pilots.

I was just curious. Why let ATC not fly the sid's or star's or not fly them completly? Is it because of heavy traffic? Or is it a matter of security?

Regards

Eric

Two reasons e.g.:

If there is less traffic, ATC can do the pilot a favour by letting him fly a "shortcut" to save time and fuel.

If there is heavy traffic, it´s necesary to arrange arriving and departing aircrafts individually to keep the necessary distances.

Timo

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Two reasons e.g.:

If there is less traffic, ATC can do the pilot a favour by letting him fly a "shortcut" to save time and fuel.

If there is heavy traffic, it´s necesary to arrange arriving and departing aircrafts individually to keep the necessary distances.

Timo

Ah.. thanks.

Eric

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