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Looks Like Microsofts New Sim Is On The Way


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Either Avsim or Flightsim.com forums, not an official statement from those sites, of course its probably just idle speculation like 99% of stuff I've been reading about MS Flight in the past day ...

In fact, at the current time it is highly unlikely that any member of the project would even dare such a claim. At the current time I have sever doubts that the Flight project is secure. Fort an american this is a totally different kind of game. It is less personal. Such a claim might come from marketing guy, but most project members are much more careful on their claims. You might need the support of the people you would insult.

In fact the public support by some of the US Add-On producers is totally normal. They are used to the concept that projects are always in competition even inside of the company.

Its a question of mentality. While I am not working on games I am a programmer and we have to deal with companies like Microsoft and Apple. While some of our products are competitors to some of their projects such a refusal would be totally unthinkable. They know that we sometimes simply have to take care of the special needs of our customers. Their problems might normally have such a low priority that a feature would never be realized, while we might build a complete program around such a feature.

So I have sever doubts that such a claim might come from a qualified source!

Such restrictions might sometimes come from sales managers but at the current time frame it would be totally beyond their scope. At the moment it will be a much bigger question how much money this project might receive and if it will be continued!

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In fact, at the current time it is highly unlikely that any member of the project would even dare such a claim. At the current time I have sever doubts that the Flight project is secure. Fort an american this is a totally different kind of game. It is less personal. Such a claim might come from marketing guy, but most project members are much more careful on their claims. You might need the support of the people you would insult.

In fact the public support by some of the US Add-On producers is totally normal. They are used to the concept that projects are always in competition even inside of the company.

Its a question of mentality. While I am not working on games I am a programmer and we have to deal with companies like Microsoft and Apple. While some of our products are competitors to some of their projects such a refusal would be totally unthinkable. They know that we sometimes simply have to take care of the special needs of our customers. Their problems might normally have such a low priority that a feature would never be realized, while we might build a complete program around such a feature.

So I have sever doubts that such a claim might come from a qualified source!

Such restrictions might sometimes come from sales managers but at the current time frame it would be totally beyond their scope. At the moment it will be a much bigger question how much money this project might receive and if it will be continued!

Ehmmm ... pretty much what I wrote as regards suspicions of it being speculation ... I certainly never said that statement came from MS ... and I don't recall insulting anyone either.

Chill out.

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I think your forgetting something: When the intro of that render plays, it says Rating Pending - Teen. TEEN! So either when you crash theres gonna be blood the windshield like oil on a Gulf pelican OR your gonna be blowin shit outta the sky - and there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't market it to people like me, who say, the PT-17 is awesome for barnstorming, but don't shoot! Anyways, if this is a CFS/FS cross to satisfy the 10 year olds who stole their mommys credit cards, I'll still get it. Why? Well, because Battlefield Bad Company 2 is a first person shooter with vehicles that has servers with the name Infantry Only.

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  • Aerosoft

Where did you read the part about Aerosoft not being allowed to continue with their sim if the contribute?

Yeah... I run our project and I know nothing about that. Loads of rumors going around and very little serious information. Nonsense.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Flight Simulation is our hobby and our work (yes we are lucky bastards) and the more sims the better. If MS makes a sim that is an open platform like we intend to do we'll be happy to compete with them and at the same time sell what we make for the new MS sim. A 3d model is a 3d model, just needs a different compiler for a simulator. If MS insists on making it a closed platform, well then we know our what our customers will pick. But MS won't tell and I will. Our simulator will as open as possible. Our plans at this moment even discuss issues like being able to replace complete elements like ATC with a 3rd part addon.

BUT, we have not yet announced the start of the project, it is still 'not on' at this moment. We like to avoid what MS went through with Train Simulator 2 that was started, canceled, started and canceled again. See they are not a very reliable partner in this aspect. I got a mail here from MS that states in words that can not be misunderstood that hey will not do stand alone games developed in house anymore. And now they do. No problem from us, as said we will embrace any simulator that's open, but you understand why the partners they have in this field smile and say they would like to see something.

And with seeing something I do not mean that render they shown. That's just PR nonsense. We all remember the DX10 lake they showed us for FSX that never looked anything like that in the real sim. Let me bet you the new sim won't even get close to this, we sure do not promise that! BTW later it turned out this PR blurb was indeed a photoshopped painting, not even a actual render.

directx10.jpg

Heck even the DX9 version they showed many years ago does not look like anything we now know in FSX;

directx9.jpg

So let's cool down and wait until MS gives some more info. For now I spend 2 min watching the render and 1 minute reading the pr blubs. And then hours reading what simmers make of it. Hahahaha.

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  • Aerosoft

In fact the public support by some of the US Add-On producers is totally normal.

Keep in mind the USA FS add-on market is rather small compared to the European market. That's why you find so few US scenery these days. It's just a big commercial risk and without access to the bigger retailers (which is simply very hard) access to new customers is just about zero. The average US customer is a lot older then the average European customer.

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Hummm! I was just thinking about the old VHS and BETA tape format (both were good) ....VHS came out as the winner...... Blueray DVD and the HD DVD format (both of them were also good)....Blueray stayed on top........so here is my take on this is......

After adding all the country using FSX, FS9 and FS2004... the market is still a small one so will it be Microsoft or Aerosoft cause I can't see both selling enough in that small of a market......so if I may make a prediction..... assuming AFS2012 and Flight are equal as far as visual and performance..........the first one to hit the market will take it all.....I wish I had a crystal ball.

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even get close to this, we sure do not promise that! BTW later it turned out this PR blurb was indeed a photoshopped painting, not even a actual render.

I'll never forget the lies MS gave us last time either.

MSDX10.jpg

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the market is still a small one so will it be Microsoft or Aerosoft cause I can't see both selling enough in that small of a market......so if I may make a prediction..... assuming AFS2012 and Flight are equal as far as visual and performance..........the first one to hit the market will take it all.....I wish I had a crystal ball.

I would tend to dissagree, it may be a small market but most of us spend more on aftermarket addons than we do on the actual sims, i think the majority of flight sim fans will have room enough for two new sims. Obviously it depends greatly on how said sims turn out also, both could be great or one may be rubbish in which case the other will grab the market. I have more faith in a company such as Aerosoft who are rather dedicated to the genre as opposed to the huge corporation that is MS but only time will tell. I personally hope both sims are brilliant!!!

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I'll never forget the lies MS gave us last time either.

Yeah that picture got a lot of people, including myself pretty excited about what the new sim could look like.

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I would tend to dissagree, it may be a small market but most of us spend more on aftermarket addons than we do on the actual sims,

Exactly. And that's the main problem for such a simulator. A simulator for 100 Euro or more would not sell. But if you want to really simulate the world you would need more money.

It is the aftersales that are interesting.

Microsoft has the problem that their core markets Windows and Microsoft are in the decline. So it is no small wonder that they remembered their old brand names.

But I am not sure if they really know how small the market is. Furthermore they are not alone in the market. I am not sure if they are really worried about Aerosoft. At least the sales department normally ignores such small competitors. Either they have their own special markets or they can't compete.

I would guess they would be more worried about X-Plane. It would not be the first time that Apple would start to support an Open Source program. Then add a function to buy sceneries through iTunes...

Furthermore, it is quite difficult to say what a company wants. There are usually a lot of opinions and strategies, so that it might look like a company doesn't know what to do. It is normally a power struggle. Especially in companies like Microsoft. If a manager doesn't meet its expected results he can be replaced rather quickly.

And if you look at the results of their presentation... In the normal market it is more: "Oh yeah, a few years ago I played with it. It got boring."

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Like I said I wish I had a crystal ball, lets try something else...what about going with facts about what we know for sure about the buzz in the industrie... (not in any particular order)

#1: Microsoft announced a new sim/game "Flight"

#2 Orbx is on board with Microsoft only as stated here from John Venema on his forum...

QUOTE: Since ACES closed I have gone on record on many occasions to clearly state that we will continue to support the Microsoft platform, and only the Microsoft platform. Whilst we have been approached a number of times to port to X-Plane and look at other sim alternatives, my position has been clear: we're a Microsoft shop and will stay that way. end of quote.

#3 As far as I can tell we don't know if or when Aerosoft will start their project (AFS2013) as stated here by Mathijs

QUOTE: BUT, we have not yet announced the start of the project, it is still 'not on' at this moment. end of Quote.

Everybody...lets had what we know for sure.

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Hi all,

I can't believe all the negative talk posted on this thread about Microsoft Flight, your reviewing the product before it's even been released. Its much too early to say removing the word 'simulator' means dumbing down the simulation. I'd like to think that removing the word simulator means a fresh start.

Flight has been in development for at least 6 months judging by the video and even longer if you count R&D. Remember Microsoft spends several billion on R&D each year and I'm sure they would have been pushing for new technologies in flight even after ACES was dumped. And hey maybe ACES just weren't good enough, ever thought about that? Looking at the video, I think it supports the theory that its not going to be an arcade game, the flight of the plane looks pretty reasonable to me. MS will also look at network play as being a key area and I'm confident that the product will be backwards compatible with existing libraries at least FSX anyway.

Cheers,

Dave.

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I made two screens today on my FSX...

It is not default screens as on Microsoft preview ...but here is FTX scenery and REX water / sky Addons..

And still doesn't looks like preview screens...

dx9j.jpg

dx10f.jpg

A this is FPS game...not simulator...but realy would like if new sim Aerosoft or MS would look like this!!

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-10-medal-of/703336

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And hey maybe ACES just weren't good enough, ever thought about that? Looking at the video, I think it supports the theory that its not going to be an arcade game, the flight of the plane looks pretty reasonable to me. MS will also look at network play as being a key area and I'm confident that the product will be backwards compatible with existing libraries at least FSX anyway.

ACES not good enough? Sorry, but you don't know how companies like Microsoft deal with this kind of problems. They replace managers, who can replace staff members if they like.

The reason for shutting down the complete group means a different thing. They simply didn't make their expected revenue and were in no position to really generate the needed cash flow. ACES was simply shut down as a part of a cost cutting effort.

And you have to question yourself what is the difference between the situation at the end of 2008 and this year?

What the video shows? Sorry, you miss the point. That's a pure rendering effort, which will probably have nothing to do with the graphics of the finished version. You can be sure that the current version of flight probably looks worse than FSX or FS9, and there is nothing wrong about that. They will have so many glitches and bugs to hunt, that this would be totally normal.

And you might be confident that they will be backward compatible with libraries of FSX, but I really hope that they don't try to guarantee this. They might have a program that tries to salvage old sceneries and planes but if they would really try to salvage too much from old versions, they can't make a complete rewrite of the rendering engine and this is what they will have to do. They will have to go Multicore and GPU based and this will break a lot of the old workflow.

Many of the sceneries made special effort to get around the limitations of FSX and 9. But these efforts become a major road block if you try to integrate into Flight that might hopefully no longer know these limitations like plain airports.

Even the staff of flight couldn't answer such questions at the moment. They could only tell you what they hope to achieve. You have no idea how many roadblocks normally occur in the last few weeks of testing and they have a long road ahead of them till then.

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One reason given for dropping the simulator part is apparently for legal reasons, when I read that on another forum I thought BS MS own the franchise, then I read that when they sacked/made redundant Aces it was part of the legal package that since they were paying off, MS could not work on a new Flight Simulator, so if they gave it a different name they could not be sued by ex employees made redundant from that franchise ... Its plausible I suppose?

MS sure do get themselves in some muddles, just look at the Train Sim 2 fiasco (Apparently the original TS sold quite well) they drop it, start it up and then drop it again, this time dropping Flight Simulator 11 too, the longest running PC leisure software title of all time!, doesn't exactly inspire confidence does it? They have bought on a lot of the negativity themselves I reckon.

As for the way Flight turns out, we'll just have to wait and see, not too sure about the Lara Croft look a like on the opening screen though, Microsoft sure don't do themselves any favours ... they really should be more upfront than what they are about this product, that would kill off any negative speculation in its tracks, or confirm our worst fears, the truth will come out in the end anyway, either way honesty is the best policy IMHO.

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ACES not good enough? Sorry, but you don't know how companies like Microsoft deal with this kind of problems. They replace managers, who can replace staff members if they like.

The reason for shutting down the complete group means a different thing. They simply didn't make their expected revenue

Phil Taylor who was with Aces wrote on Avsim some time ago that while he couldn't give exact figures, sales of FSX exceeded expectations, going on to sell more copy's than FS9 did, that wasn't the problem. They wouldn't have made a start on FS11 like they did if that were the case. MS had problems with sales of Vista, but FSX sold quite well apparently.

EDIT: and correct me if I'm wrong, but someone from Aerosoft once wrote, they sell more FSX titles than they did for FS9, if this is correct, it further supports the theory MS have lost the plot and public confidence in them is now at an all time low.

Its looking more and more like FSX was a good seller and despite its problems was a good franchise ... hell, MS Flight Sim lasted the best part of three decades! For sure its never been so good for us with both hardware and software after market add-ons for FSX and FS9.

And someone from MS decides to drop it, then resurrect it a few years later.

You have to wonder about them.

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Well according to george[flytampa Site Admin]

"Orbx aren't the only ones that signed Microsoft Documents recently"

And here are some quotes from JV at Orbx

"please do not ask us for more information" Why would we be asking ORBX for information ??

"you need to understand we simply cannot say anything at this early stage. Please respect our wishes in that regard" WE and OUR huh ??

And why would they say anthing if they don't know anything ?

"I could tell you more, but I'd have to shoot you" Hmmmm....

Sounds like JV could tell you more but he's not allowed too...

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And if it was a Game I don't think MS would be talking to 3rd Party DEVS...........

It's also rumored that X-Plane is talking to Outerra about Licensing thier engine for X-Plane 11.

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Well according to george[flytampa Site Admin]

"Orbx aren't the only ones that signed Microsoft Documents recently"

And here are some quotes from JV at Orbx

"please do not ask us for more information" Why would we be asking ORBX for information ??

"you need to understand we simply cannot say anything at this early stage. Please respect our wishes in that regard" WE and OUR huh ??

And why would they say anthing if they don't know anything ?

"I could tell you more, but I'd have to shoot you" Hmmmm....

Sounds like JV could tell you more but he's not allowed too...

Hmmm, it does look like MS are talking to some developers and not others and Mathijs here confirms Aerosoft have not been approached by MS so far on Flight, far less signing anything ... MS seem to just stagger from one PR disaster to the next! maybe they are sulking with Aerosoft for having the audacity to talk about making their own Simulator?

As I've mentioned before, they could avoid a lot of the ill feeling and negative opinions towards them if they were just a bit more upfront, especially to their potential customers who at the end of the day pay their wages ... all this 007, hush hush ... I could tell you but I'd have to kill you stuff, all this I know something you dont, nah nah stuff is just ludicrous and quite frankly, comical!

EDIT: and its not as if MS cant be open and upfront, one of the best things they did IMHO, was let the general public test drive Win 7 before it was launched, anyone who wanted to got to do that and I did as well, as result I went on to buy the full version on day one, MS got a lot of respect from the public for that, whoever is in charge of MS Flight should take note of that, because its quite obvious the managers of MS Flight have a different outlook to those that worked on Win7, much the same as when FSX was in development ... actually, no, its worse, its like one hand does not know what the other is doing. I know its early days, lets just say they have got off to a bad start, maybe they can redeem themselves?

At the very least, its Aerosoft who kick started MS back into life for FS, from their complacency, if it were not for the very real threat of competition, we'd not see MS FS back so soon ... they would ride out the current financial storm ... They really don't care about FS the way Aerosoft does anymore.

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QUOTE: Since ACES closed I have gone on record on many occasions to clearly state that we will continue to support the Microsoft platform, and only the Microsoft platform. Whilst we have been approached a number of times to port to X-Plane and look at other sim alternatives, my position has been clear: we're a Microsoft shop and will stay that way. end of quote.

Umm is putting all your eggs in one basket such a good idea these days.

If given the option to be in more than one basket I think I would take it this day and age.

Its a pity the last Sim wasn't FS9 then we could have called this the FS X-Files :) with all this Hush hush stuff.

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Well if Bill was still at MS and the webtalk was reliable , Aces probably wouldn't have closed, MSFS was sort of his baby and years ago was was a cash generator. Not only

did MSFS help MS, it generated lots of FS related. Compare it to BMW moving into Greenville/Spartanburg. Look at the businesses created by them just having a plant there.

Seattle 2007 was very impressive if you were there. Oh and thanks to Aerosoft for sponsoring the social hour Friday night.

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  • Aerosoft

Hi all,

I can't believe all the negative talk posted on this thread about Microsoft Flight, your reviewing the product before it's even been released. Its much too early to say removing the word 'simulator' means dumbing down the simulation. I'd like to think that removing the word simulator means a fresh start.

Flight has been in development for at least 6 months judging by the video and even longer if you count R&D. Remember Microsoft spends several billion on R&D each year and I'm sure they would have been pushing for new technologies in flight even after ACES was dumped. And hey maybe ACES just weren't good enough, ever thought about that? Looking at the video, I think it supports the theory that its not going to be an arcade game, the flight of the plane looks pretty reasonable to me. MS will also look at network play as being a key area and I'm confident that the product will be backwards compatible with existing libraries at least FSX anyway.

Cheers,

Dave.

Amazing you can judge how long a project is in development from a video that is NOT made from a game engine but from a render engine (most likely just 3Dmax). We could make one like that in a week. It would look better and it would be just as fake.

Look, nothing bad about MS Flight, how could I say something bad about a product I do not know. But the announcement (they are going to do something but will not say anything else) and that vid was just funny. Seemed to work for you though and I think the money MS spend on that render was well worth it.

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Umm is putting all your eggs in one basket such a good idea these days.

If given the option to be in more than one basket I think I would take it this day and age.

Its a pity the last Sim wasn't FS9 then we could have called this the FS X-Files smile.gif with all this Hush hush stuff.

Don't know, but as far as I can tell the latest basket I see as far as flight simulation is FSX, until I see Flight or AFS2013 up and running I will not be able to make a decision on the fact of is putting all my eggs in one basket is such a good decision, show me another basket.

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