Schlapperklange

Iac Ils Rwy 09

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I know for some ILS approaches, the FAF is simply glide slope interception, where ever that happens to take place. It looks like for RWY 27, that happens at 6.6 DME and is also already listed at the FAF so that works perfectly fine.

As far as the SID, I know some airports in California have a similar problem. What they do to overcome it is they would put a hold in somewhere in the procedure where it is safe enough to enter at a lower altitude. In this case, there could be a hold at KPT that would be used only if an aircraft could not attain 7000 by the time they reach it. They enter the hold at whatever altitude they had managed to climb to at that point, then continued the climb in the hold. Once they were at 7000, they exit and continue on their way.

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I know for some ILS approaches, the FAF is simply glide slope interception, where ever that happens to take place. It looks like for RWY 27, that happens at 6.6 DME and is also already listed at the FAF so that works perfectly fine.

My question is: Must there be a Maltese cross at the FAF on the chart or not? Most airports' FAF have a RNAV fix with coordinates and a name.

As far as the SID, I know some airports in California have a similar problem. What they do to overcome it is they would put a hold in somewhere in the procedure where it is safe enough to enter at a lower altitude. In this case, there could be a hold at KPT that would be used only if an aircraft could not attain 7000 by the time they reach it. They enter the hold at whatever altitude they had managed to climb to at that point, then continued the climb in the hold. Once they were at 7000, they exit and continue on their way.

The problem is, that departing aircraft must arrive at ANF VOR higher than 5000 ft to not get into conflict with arriving traffic that arrive at 5000 ft. So a hold at ANF doen't solve the problem.

If we have to add a hold for climbing, it must be before ANF, for example like this:

post-17807-076670700 1293725362_thumb.jp

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The problem is, that departing aircraft must arrive at ANF VOR higher than 5000 ft to not get into conflict with arriving traffic that arrive at 5000 ft. So a hold at ANF doen't solve the problem.

If we have to add a hold for climbing, it must be before ANF, for example like this:

I personally don't see the problem with departing aircraft, rather the opposite. Take your original post along with distances. I've flown this umpteen times.

Departing aircraft from Rwy 27 and going by the calculated distances (again from the original post), can reach over 5000ft before hitting KPT, by my reckoning you should be able to hit a minimum 7000ft. On a Rwy 09 departure you could make it either the same or at 9000ft. Either way I see the TA being 5000ft.

For the STAR this would be another matter. Having to arrive at KPT AT 5000ft you would therefore have to HOLD at whatever altitude you were at (say 15000) down to 5000. My point being, it would depend on Departure traffic as to what hight Arrivals would have to extend the hold and more importantly, at what altitude.

I may well be incorrect in my assumptions but, I'll opt to stand being corrected if wrong. This assumption being that we only use KPT for Arrival/Departures. There are other options open but would require the waypoints to be made/added to various programmes.

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I personally don't see the problem with departing aircraft, rather the opposite. Take your original post along with distances. I've flown this umpteen times.

Departing aircraft from Rwy 27 and going by the calculated distances (again from the original post), can reach over 5000ft before hitting KPT, by my reckoning you should be able to hit a minimum 7000ft. On a Rwy 09 departure you could make it either the same or at 9000ft. Either way I see the TA being 5000ft.

Of course it is possible to fly the SID Rwy 27 with an arrival AT 7000 ot above - if your aircraft has enough climb capability. For most it should be no problem. Maybe we should just assume that this SID is no problem.

SID Rwy 09 is no problem at all.

For the STAR this would be another matter. Having to arrive at KPT AT 5000ft you would therefore have to HOLD at whatever altitude you were at (say 15000) down to 5000. My point being, it would depend on Departure traffic as to what hight Arrivals would have to extend the hold and more importantly, at what altitude.

Arrivals should be already AT 5000 when passing/holding at KPT VOR (if not other directed by ATC). Maybe I should fortify that in the remarks in the STAR chart.

I may well be incorrect in my assumptions but, I'll opt to stand being corrected if wrong. This assumption being that we only use KPT for Arrival/Departures. There are other options open but would require the waypoints to be made/added to various programmes.

I intentionally don't want to use other navaids. Andras is a small airfield. So we should keep IFR proceedures short. And an insertion of custom waypoints brings new problems. Just look at the problem how to add Andras Field to the AIRAC databases.

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Of course it is possible to fly the SID Rwy 27 with an arrival AT 7000 ot above - if your aircraft has enough climb capability. For most it should be no problem. Maybe we should just assume that this SID is no problem.

SID Rwy 09 is no problem at all.

Hence my remark that we should make the SID by KPT (AT) FL70.

Arrivals should be already AT 5000 when passing/holding at KPT VOR (if not other directed by ATC). Maybe I should fortify that in the remarks in the STAR chart.

Agreed, but on the off chance that your not it should be stated that you will be at.... If not expect the hold until you are at....

I intentionally don't want to use other navaids.

I agree, but on the off chance that you come in from the South East there is the option af adding LOWI as an aid and routing towards KPT. Just a thought....

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Great work on the charts there..Thank you very much :D

1 teeny weeny typo tho, Kemten Two Wiskey discription doesnt say what radial, just has a 'R'.

Apart from that, spot on!

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Just one minor niggle - on the STAR chart, the correct spelling is "clearance", apart from that, looking good and eminently "do-able" in the aircraft we usually fly.

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I will fix the errors in the next release.

1. I will correct the spelling error

2. I will add a minimum initial climb on the KPT 2 W SID of 1000 ft/min until 3.0 DME ANF to keep clear of the hill.

3. The R097 KPT on the KPT 2 E should be changed to R096 to minimize possibility of overshooting. It works well if you keep strictly the speed limit, but with strong wind from south you may overshoot easily.

4. I am thinking about adding a SID via INN NDB. Something simple like: On RWY track after 11.0 DME ANF RT direct INN NDB.

Did someone else experience problems with the ANF VOR tuning?

There is a DME at EDDM which also uses 115.00 Mhz. Maybe the Andras Field developers should change the frequency in the next release to eliminate possible interferences.

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Another minor niggle:

Spelling the SID's I think KEMPTEN2W and KEMPTEN2E have changed their positon.

I suppose 2W is the departure westbound and 2E eastbound, as we can see at the graphic.

But at the description of the SID's the names are on the wrong position.

2W should have a RT to KPT and 2E LT.

Very nice job

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Another minor niggle:

Spelling the SID's I think KEMPTEN2W and KEMPTEN2E have changed their positon.

I suppose 2W is the departure westbound and 2E eastbound, as we can see at the graphic.

But at the description of the SID's the names are on the wrong position.

2W should have a RT to KPT and 2E LT.

Very nice job

Thanx for the hint. I accidently swapped the SID names. :blush:

That happens if you don't have time to review your work. :wacko:

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Hi,

could a Mod please create a sticky with all the charts in their current version, that is updated when amendments are released?

Thanks, Stefan

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Thanks for that update - although I haven't flown in the last 6-9 months in FSX, I guess I start again with andras field here :)

I will - ASAP

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