Aerosoft Flight Simulator 2012 - Worries

[ridgey 26]

Hello Aerosoft staff and its members.

Firstly, i wish to discuss the new simualtor with FSX.. Now, with new hardware i expect the fade out of DX9, which means, no FSX... However, there are some seriously amazing addons currently out, and also about to come out this year.. PMDG 737NG, Dash 8, and THE 777!!..

So, will the aerosoft simulator relate to FSX,, will our addons work for it??.. If not, how can u look to PMDG, LEveld, Captainsim, who will they make addons for, and will they be prepared to remodel their models to your simulator??

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Hello Aerosoft staff and its members.

Firstly, i wish to discuss the new simualtor with FSX.. Now, with new hardware i expect the fade out of DX9, which means, no FSX... However, there are some seriously amazing addons currently out, and also about to come out this year.. PMDG 737NG, Dash 8, and THE 777!!..

So, will the aerosoft simulator relate to FSX,, will our addons work for it??.. If not, how can u look to PMDG, LEveld, Captainsim, who will they make addons for, and will they be prepared to remodel their models to your simulator??

I delete a whole load of messages here, some of them I should have kept but could lead to new problems.

- There is NO way we can offer out of the box compatibility with FSX addons (FS2004 addons are even harder as they sometimes use non standard stuff). Not only because it would be wrong to drag in old 16 bit code, but mainly because it would create massive legal issues.

- If Aerosoft will start a new simulator we'll be offering our own products to be cross platform leading up to the release. So for example buy the Aerosoft Airbus X for FSX and you'll get it for free for the new sim.

- Everything you see in products made internally by Aerosoft (NOT all we sell) is done to the latest standards of 3d development and only needs to be recompiled for a new sim (we sell these files for professional sims for years now, we know how to convert them).

- Code that is behind what you see (systems, animations etc) is more complex but still manageable. For the people who worked professional it will be a matter of a few weeks. If you worked with the non industry standard FS2004 things you were screwed in FSX and anything that came after that. FS2004 was a dead end platform. FSX opens it up.

- Keep in mind we are talking 2012, 2013. How many addons made 5 years ago are you using now? I checked, I do not use anything older than a year.

[Vee One 33]

I delete a whole load of messages here, some of them I should have kept but could lead to new problems.

- There is NO way we can offer out of the box compatibility with FSX addons (FS2004 addons are even harder as they sometimes use non standard stuff). Not only because it would be wrong to drag in old 16 bit code, but mainly because it would create massive legal issues.

- If Aerosoft will start a new simulator we'll be offering our own products to be cross platform leading up to the release. So for example buy the Aerosoft Airbus X for FSX and you'll get it for free for the new sim.

- Everything you see in products made internally by Aerosoft (NOT all we sell) is done to the latest standards of 3d development and only needs to be recompiled for a new sim (we sell these files for professional sims for years now, we know how to convert them).

- Code that is behind what you see (systems, animations etc) is more complex but still manageable. For the people who worked professional it will be a matter of a few weeks. If you worked with the non industry standard FS2004 things you were screwed in FSX and anything that came after that. FS2004 was a dead end platform. FSX opens it up.

- Keep in mind we are talking 2012, 2013. How many addons made 5 years ago are you using now? I checked, I do not use anything older than a year.

Well, Mathjis, that's so good to know! Just to think all my Mega Airports will be in your new Flight Sim! Madrid, (will get Barcelona too), Paris CDG, Frankfurt Main, not to mention others I have in the list to buy!

In any case, I will still stay in FS2004 till then. I have a lot of good stuff for many years still!

Regards,

Vee One

[janda 3]

I delete a whole load of messages here, some of them I should have kept but could lead to new problems.

- There is NO way we can offer out of the box compatibility with FSX addons (FS2004 addons are even harder as they sometimes use non standard stuff). Not only because it would be wrong to drag in old 16 bit code, but mainly because it would create massive legal issues.

- If Aerosoft will start a new simulator we'll be offering our own products to be cross platform leading up to the release. So for example buy the Aerosoft Airbus X for FSX and you'll get it for free for the new sim.

- Everything you see in products made internally by Aerosoft (NOT all we sell) is done to the latest standards of 3d development and only needs to be recompiled for a new sim (we sell these files for professional sims for years now, we know how to convert them).

- Code that is behind what you see (systems, animations etc) is more complex but still manageable. For the people who worked professional it will be a matter of a few weeks. If you worked with the non industry standard FS2004 things you were screwed in FSX and anything that came after that. FS2004 was a dead end platform. FSX opens it up.

- Keep in mind we are talking 2012, 2013. How many addons made 5 years ago are you using now? I checked, I do not use anything older than a year.

[janda 3]

Hi Mathijs,

is there anything news about project progress?? where are ( aerosoft )we now?

brds

Martin

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Hi Mathijs,

is there anything news about project progress?? where are ( aerosoft )we now?

brds

Martin

We are cautiously optimistic. There are some big decisions that have to be made and that take much longer then I would have hoped. Mostly these have to do with partners we need for this project. And then I am not talking about addon developers but retailers, banks etc.

[janda 3]

We are cautiously optimistic. There are some big decisions that have to be made and that take much longer then I would have hoped. Mostly these have to do with partners we need for this project. And then I am not talking about addon developers but retailers, banks etc.

thank`s for that.two more questions..

1. Mathijs, in your opinion- WHEN you can be sure to say- OK, WE START

2. A new Engine for the sim has already been selected?- some comments on that ?

brds

Martin

[Vee One 33]

thank`s for that.two more questions..

1. Mathijs, in your opinion- WHEN you can be sure to say- OK, WE START

2. A new Engine for the sim has already been selected?- some comments on that ?

brds

Martin

Indeed, the first question is most interesting, Janda

About the second question... Mathijs, I know you have looked into the Outerra engine -I do really find that one a VERY good engine. Are you still considering Outerra or have you closed doors on that one and looking for another one?

Happy planning!

Vee One

[Sharrow 107]

To the best of my knowledge the Outerra engine was found not to be suitable for various reasons.

[Vee One 33]

To the best of my knowledge the Outerra engine was found not to be suitable for various reasons.

Konrad, thanks for the information. Do you know why Outerra wasn't suitable? I hope one of the reasons was not "because they are a small independent group"... Big companies like Apple started very small... in a garage...!

[Sharrow 107]

Discussion re the Outerra Game Engine can be found here.

[Reco 3]

We are cautiously optimistic. There are some big decisions that have to be made and that take much longer then I would have hoped. Mostly these have to do with partners we need for this project. And then I am not talking about addon developers but retailers, banks etc.

Have you consider to finace part of the project by some sort of contributions or shares. I am sure many people are willing to risk a small amount of money each, in order to make sure your planned sim is going to be a reality.

Reco

[Robert Halmich 8]

I delete a whole load of messages here, some of them I should have kept but could lead to new problems.

- Keep in mind we are talking 2012, 2013. How many addons made 5 years ago are you using now? I checked, I do not use anything older than a year.

Personally I like the heavies, therefore I fly a few addons more than a year old.

Mathijs, you wrote (and I am paraphrasing) that you do not have the time or patience to learn complex addons, most addons that have been released in the past year, which include GA, have some complexity to them, do you not agree?

Which statement is true? Looks to me like you are bashing FSX which has been a part of your market in favor of your upcoming FS20?? And IMHO I think you still use addons more than a year old.

[Python 9]

So for example buy the Aerosoft Airbus X for FSX and you'll get it for free for the new sim.

This is great news in two regards... one, i get to fly my favourite addon, the Aerosoft F-16 in the new sim and two, the new sim is still planned, hope you get started soon, were all very much looking forward to a decent performing simulator

[alainneedle1 32]

I have not been here for some time and I did not have the time to read every post about AFS 2012 so if this has been asked before fogive me......

1: Will the new sim be SLI compatible?

2: Will it be Hyperthreading compatible?

3: Wil the new sim use all core (exp: i 980X 6 core) for everything...not just terrain.... here is an example of what I'm asking, in this vid. Phil Taylor is saying FSX can use up to 256 core but this is for terrain only....

so it will be great to have all core working on everything......

4: Will you be using DX11?

I'm asking all these questions because this is the future for all new game or simulator.

Thank you.

[Arista 64]

1: Will the new sim be SLI compatible?

That mostly depends on whether Nvidia or AMD will consider AFS 2013 important enough to implement specific optimizations for it in their drivers.

2: Will it be Hyperthreading compatible?

Who cares about hyper-threading if you can have more than enough real cores? Besides, there's nothing special about hyper-threading from a software point of view.

3: Wil the new sim use all core (exp: i 980X 6 core) for everything

Probably not, because the current 3D graphics APIs have certain restrictions, which basically means that rendering has to be done from only one thread (read one core). In the best case you can do everything but rendering in additional threads, but there's only so much that needs to be done. And besides, you still have the problem of synchronizing the additional threads with the rendering thread.

Judith

[alainneedle1 32]

That mostly depends on whether Nvidia or AMD will consider AFS 2013 important enough to implement specific optimizations for it in their drivers.

Who cares about hyper-threading if you can have more than enough real cores? Besides, there's nothing special about hyper-threading from a software point of view.

Probably not, because the current 3D graphics APIs have certain restrictions, which basically means that rendering has to be done from only one thread (read one core). In the best case you can do everything but rendering in additional threads, but there's only so much that needs to be done. And besides, you still have the problem of synchronizing the additional threads with the rendering thread.

Judith

Are you telling me FSX can't use SLI because Nvidia or ATI do not make drivers to be use with more than one card for FSX and not because FSX was not built (coded) to use SLI....so it will be up to Nvidia or ATI to make a driver enable SLI for AFS.....or for that matter FSX?

About my DX question, wich one will be in use for ASF 2012?

Is synchronizing the additional threads with the rendering thread to big of a task.....why am I asking.....because there is no such thing as overkill in PC's world IMHO.

Don't get me wrong I am not asking questions here to get in a big debate but to know what will be included in AFS and what will not be included so I can make an educated decision about buying AFS.

We allk now what are the bugs in FSX.......no SLI, stuttering when maxing up everything or making hard turn from the VC view, popping trees or buildings, no VC shadow in DX9, DX10 preview is full of problems, texture catching up with the plane. reflecting clouds or stars on ocean's water +++

Thank you for answering.

[alainneedle1 32]

I am sure somebody can answer my questions?

1: Wich DX will be use in AFS 2012?

2: Will AFS 2012 be built (coded) to be able to use SLI?

3: Since using all possible core from a CPU can only improve AFS 2012 performance will this be done with AFS 2012 or is synchronizing the additional threads with the rendering thread to big of a task?

Like I said before I am just trying to understand what will be included and what will not be included in AFS 2012

Thank you

[BPL 39]

I am sure somebody can answer my questions?

1: Wich DX will be use in AFS 2012?

2: Will AFS 2012 be built (coded) to be able to use SLI?

3: Since using all possible core from a CPU can only improve AFS 2012 performance will this be done with AFS 2012 or is synchronizing the additional threads with the rendering thread to big of a task?

Like I said before I am just trying to understand what will be included and what will not be included in AFS 2012

Thank you

I think I remember reading that it will use DX11, but I don't know the answers to your other questions.

Hope this helped.

[alainneedle1 32]

Thank you for your answer BPL but since you'r not sure about wich DX will be in use and you don't know the answer to my others questions I hope somebody from Aerosoft (like a software developper) can answer me.

Seriously I'm sure somebody from Aerosoft read my questions and can answer them..... Mathijs maybe.

Thank you.

[BPL 39]

Thank you for your answer BPL but since you'r not sure about wich DX will be in use and you don't know the answer to my others questions I hope somebody from Aerosoft (like a software developper) can answer me.

Seriously I'm sure somebody from Aerosoft read my questions and can answer them..... Mathijs maybe.

Thank you.

I'm 99.9% sure that DX11 will be used. I don't think that the other questions that you asked have been brought up before, so only a developer could answer those.

Hope you get your other answers soon.

[Arista 64]

so it will be up to Nvidia or ATI to make a driver enable SLI for AFS.....or for that matter FSX?

Basically, yes. While a game can do certain things that can make it harder or less efficient to make driver-level optimizations for it, SLI works transparently for game developer for the most part, as far as I'm aware.

About my DX question, wich one will be in use for ASF 2012?

I think it's supposed to use DirectX 10, but I'm not quite sure. And I don't really care, either, because the difference between DX10 and DX11 is not that big anyway. Especially when considering the fact that the majority of current games still use DX9.

Is synchronizing the additional threads with the rendering thread to big of a task

It depends, but it's not something to be taken lightly. Or else we'd be swamped by massively multi-threaded software by now.

Judith

[alainneedle1 32]

Basically, yes. While a game can do certain things that can make it harder or less efficient to make driver-level optimizations for it, SLI works transparently for game developer for the most part, as far as I'm aware.

I think it's supposed to use DirectX 10, but I'm not quite sure. And I don't really care, either, because the difference between DX10 and DX11 is not that big anyway. Especially when considering the fact that the majority of current games still use DX9.

It depends, but it's not something to be taken lightly. Or else we'd be swamped by massively multi-threaded software by now.

Judith

Thank you for your reply Judith, please don't get me wrong by asking this question but are you a developper for Aerosoft? I am assuming you are.......

Now by the way you are answering my question let me tell you...you have a future in politic.....haha

1: OK, your first answer does not help me at all (sorry) so let me ask another way, does a game (AFS 2012) as to be built or coded SLI compatible to be able to use an SLI driver from ATI or Nvidia, yes or no?

2: About the DX question it is not a matter of if you care or not it's a matter of been up to date with what's going on in today's game market, who cared about DX10 when all game were DX9 only.......funny all game (fairly new one) are in DX10 and all future game will be DX11, new vid. card are built with DX11 now, same thing happend with DDR3 memory, everybody on DDR2 were saying we did not need it since not to many board were available for DDR3 memory.....hello...it can only get better.

3: Making the same mistake as FSX did would not be wise, seriously build a game who will use all available core, it may not be something to be taken lightly about synchronizing the additional threads with the rendering thread but maaaan can you imagine ASF2012 using 6 core and by the time AFS2012 is ready we will probably have 8 core CPU.

This is a complain we read all the time "Why will you buy a CPU with 6 core when none of the game on the market can use it", that's exactly my point....be the first....make it work.....make it future proof...make this game a multicore game......I'll be the first one to use my plastic card for a game (sorry) simulator like that....

Judith, I don't know if you are a developer for AFS2012 but with all due respect if you'r not can a developer or somebody who make decision at Aerosoft answer these simple questions?

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

[Arista 64]

For the record, I'm not a programmer for Aerosoft, or a professional programmer at all, for that matter, but I do have some insight into multi-threaded and graphics programming. I just tried to shed some light onto a few issues that may make it more or less likely for some 'features' to be implemented or not - though multi-threadedness or SLI support is not really something I'd call a feature. I don't have any inside knowledge whatsoever. However, if you're after an official, definitive answer from Aerosoft, good luck. For all intents and purposes, they've stopped talking to us many moons ago - which is exactly why this thread is titled as it is.

all future game will be DX11, new vid. card are built with DX11 now

Well, can you name three major features that make DX11 better than DX10, just for the fun of it? Or the main advantage of DDR3 memory, for that matter?

can you imagine ASF2012 using 6 core

If it takes one woman nine months to get a baby, nine women should be able to get a baby in one month, right? Of course, that's not how it works - and the same problem arises in many areas of multi-threaded programming. I have no idea how much this applies to AFS 2013, but I do know that it's not as easy as throwing additional cores at the problem in most real-world computation problems. Some tasks simply can't be parallelized in a meaningful or efficient way. For example, it looks like a no-brainer to move the flight model to a separate thread/core at first glance. But then you realize that the flight model needs to tightly interact with the scenery engine, the graphics engine, the weather engine, the systems modeling, etc. Tests done by Laminar Research have shown that with X-Plane, the synchronization overhead outweighs the gain from moving the flight model to a separate thread. Of course, Aerosoft have the benefit of designing the system from scratch, but the basic problems remain.

Judith

[alainneedle1 32]

I Judith, I did not know Aerosoft stoped talking to you (us) many moons ago cause i've not been on this forum lately for similar reason, why is that? That's not cool, I was wondering why I did not get an answer from them yet. This is just amazing to me......you go Aerosoft .

DDR3 = bandwith, faster rams (on a tight timing), better overclocking (i980x at 4.4GHz+ DDR3 7-7-7-20 200MHz + GTX 480 + Asus Rampage III extreme) + faster all around system.

QUOTE : If it takes one woman nine months to get a baby, nine women should be able to get a baby in one month, right?

Nop....but what about nine woman taking care of one baby.....

QUOTE: Aerosoft have the benefit of designing the system from scratch.....

My point exactly, if you are "gonna" do something new well do it right....

Was nice talking to you Judith....I always like a good debate.