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Dillon

2010 FS9 still tops freeware downloads on all FS sites...

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Dillon, these are really nice screenshots, but i was talking about FREEWARE-downloads!

No doubt you can improve FS9 with (very expensive) addons like ActiveSky, REX, etc...

All I wanted to say was, that most (please read carefully: M.O.S.T!) freeware addons for FS9 are relatively simple

and don´t meet the standards of FSX-addons. That´s the nature of software-evolution!

FSX-addons become more and more complex and so fewer and fewer freeware-developers have the time and money to create addons.

Because of this fact i agree with you 100%: ...FSX is a payware platform from beginning to end....

Regards,

Timo

ActiveSky Advanced, REX for FS9, and Flight1's Ground Environment Pro is not that expensive especially if you live in Europe these days (What are we talking here 15 Euros at the most per product including FS9?). The exchange rate today makes a developer like Ariane's products a bargain if your trading in Euros.

Speaking of FS9 Freeware the greatest efforts in this area as of late has to be in the area of AI planes and utilities. A package like WAI is almost priceless considering it's ease of use compared to a comparable payware product like Ultimate Traffic. The ease of punching in and out airlines with updates leaves the sim fresh and up to date with the latest airlines flying today on real world routes with accurate liveries. I can't tell you how nice it is in Sydney to see the Singapore A380 taking off on time heading to that small country up north. The countless outstanding scenery/mesh efforts that's out there for free that otherwise would cost $35/45.00 (even less in Euros) is amazing. None of this can be found for FSX without a price and/or a port over from FS9 work. Shez comes to mind when I think of his KHOU scenery or KBNA. Next we have the countless repaints that aren't nothing to sneeze at either. Then you have companies like Posky who's models are second to none. How many years did we have FSUIPC for free? It's convenient to FORGET about that now that 'Simconnect' is a reality in FSX but 'Simconnect' is only a reality because of the freeware FSUIPC that preceded it allowing add-on's to progress where they are today. I'll give it to you some and I do mean 'SOME' freeware releases are lacking but so much more of it isn't. Looking today on Avsim's download page I see so many option for AI modifications that would otherwise cost. Much of this stuff today can be carried over into FSX especially AI and people are doing it so it must mean something. Milton Shup comes to mind with his aircraft that are nothing short of payware quality but alas they are for free. All that's being done for FSX is what has already been done for FS9 with the exception of more eye candy here and there. Avionic features hasn't changed in FSX to really stand out over FS9. Heck FSX doesn't even have a realistic Airbus. The only realistic Airbus being developed is for FS9 by Airsimmer. Aerosoft has to cut corners on their effort because of performance considerations in FSX. Most other payware aircraft have versions for FS9 because they were originally created for FS9 or developed in tandem.

The point of your argument is freeware and I don't see allot of trash floating around out there. Most freeware scenery is actually quite good. There is no hardcore Heavy freeware to compare with for either sim so we can't go there. AI utilities have benefited both sims but was developed under and for FS9. So I guess we can make these glaring comments because of the few that's tried their hand at the development process with less that stellar results. Most freeware are pretty good efforts especially in the repaint, AI, and scenery category...

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Mathijs your a smart guy who has been in the business for years, I remember when you were with Lago and did an outstanding job over there. All of this I'm telling you here you already know and pegging you for proof is a mute point. All I'm asking is don't insult mine or anyone's intelligence with this whole boxed product argument. I know perfectly well boxed anything isn't selling well these days as I work with a few developers myself. You from your experience know what's happening in the more vibrant download market and we should stick with and discuss that... FS9 isn't doing bad at all that's why developers like FSDreamteam continue to make products for that version. Same goes for 'most' everyone else with the exception of those tied to Aerosoft...

Fine Dillon, believe what you want.

As I don't like to insult your intelligence, you say that all people tied to Aerosoft are mistaken and you are in so many words saying that I am not writing the truth, I'll block you for 30 days.

Without doubt you will interpret that as yet another example of how Aerosoft likes to make people dislike FS2004 and move to FSX. As long as there is no other company with so many FS2004 releases in 2009 as Aerosoft I'll just smile as I block you from posting on this forum.

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Sorry Mathijs, but I must make a statement now, because I see the world different and I don't like the form you make your statement regarding the development desitions for FS9 products, but I must reduce it to the sceneries, as I have no know-how in aircraft designer, where your statement are possible correct.

So, to state the FS9 is dead is as much wrong as the statement the FSX is the only possible future (when we are fair, he is allready dead too :blush:, maybe he can keep his rest of life longer :D ) I know it is new in the 20 years history of FS, but we have now two platforms and both have there places in the market.

Oliver, you are 100% right.

There is a group of customers that have for what reason what so ever have little interest in FSX. Could be hardware, could be the fact they are into heavy airliners on big airports, where FSX is indeed weak. But it is the section on the market you know best and where your superb AES does it's work. I am talking about the complete market. FS2004 is a great market for Aerosoft, one we pursue when ever we can, when ever we can afford it. Like I keep saying, name ANY other company that has released so many FS2004 addons as Aerosoft in 2004. From your AES to the many airports. There are two sims platforms. For FSX we can more or less sell anything. For FS2004 we are more limited. But that's fine. We are happy with both sims as long as we find the customers.

However, for some reason, a lot of FS2004 fans seem to have a problem with FSX. And as we all know unhappy people write while happy people sim. So the comments we see do not match the sales. If we do a poll here we most likely see a massive win for FS2004, yet the people that would vote for FS2004 are for some reason not buying customers. That's why we do market research, to find out what people will spend money on. We are simple people, we make what we can sell. As you say both FSX and FS2004 are dead end platforms. Commercially however FS2004 is a lot closer to the end. AES on it's own moved that end forward as it extends what FS does, it made it possible for a huge amount of people to enjoy FS2004 longer or decide to they do not need FSX. You are thus entitled to a different view then myself!

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Mathijs I don't know for the life of me why you keep touting such an archaic form of distribution to justify FSX and moving away from FS9.

Dillon, when have you last been in a MediaMarkt in Germany? Or in the bigger stores in Paris. London etc?

We all know the US market is dead for boxes as MS pushed all PC games out of the stores to get the Xbox better positioned. But I assure you that most addons in Europe (a far bigger market then the US for these products) still sell very well in boxed format. That some distributors can't get products in the shops might be true, but I assure you Aerosoft does.

And archaic? I make my living with software. Worked on stuff you most likely used a few times (or even daily). And I assure you, the money is not made with downloads but with boxes. For sure this will change. But if Aerosoft makes a box of a product I am pretty sure it's the box that outsells the download a few times over.

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Dillon, when have you last been in a MediaMarkt in Germany? Or in the bigger stores in Paris. London etc?

We all know the US market is dead for boxes as MS pushed all PC games out of the stores to get the Xbox better positioned. But I assure you that most addons in Europe (a far bigger market then the US for these products) still sell very well in boxed format. That some distributors can't get products in the shops might be true, but I assure you Aerosoft does.

And archaic? I make my living with software. Worked on stuff you most likely used a few times (or even daily). And I assure you, the money is not made with downloads but with boxes. For sure this will change. But if Aerosoft makes a box of a product I am pretty sure it's the box that outsells the download a few times over.

We have just opened our US office to be more present on the US market and we really hope to change things, but you are right. While the European market remained more or less okay, the US market went the way the Asian market went. Shops, together with Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo pushed the PC games out of the stores. Only the biggest titles are still present. In Europe you can still buy FS addons on stores. A good deal of our sales come from people who pick up boxes in the shop and read the backsite of the box. I know stores that got 25 FS boxed addons at this very moment in Europe. Apart from a handful of specialist shops (if there are any left) this simply is not seen in the US at this moment. As said we are working very hard to change this. Just check out what BestBuy now offers. We are making progress but it is an uphill fight.

You see this also in the way the FS addon companies aimed at the US market are struggling while we are expanding, even in the current economical climate. It's sad but customers buy what they want to buy, you can't force them.

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We have just opened our US office to be more present on the US market and we really hope to change things...

HAHA!!! MAthijs!!! So funny that you say there is not a big enough market of customers in the US to justify makeing US sceneries but you opened up a office here... That is very funny indeed. Maybe all your customers in the us are European! I guess it's better to test your footing here by spending money on opening a office then spending less money by creating a good US scenery to test the waters first... Open a US office to sell items (as you have stated) targeted to European - mostly German demographic.

I hope your US office does well selling products as it seems not aparently targeted to US customers...

Your hope is to find people like me who continue buy all your scenery products regardless if I have been to those places or not... Of cource, I stick to downloads because I would rather not make trash just to hold a box in my hands. The only FS boxed product I have ever purchased is the FS install discs... Maybe it's my highspeed internet connection...

Long live FS9!

Cheers!

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Newmanix, i wish you a nice time, when Mathijs will read it. :blink: That's a statement nobody needs, not here and no where, even when you mean its cool man.

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Newmanix, i wish you a nice time, when Mathijs will read it. :blink: That's a statement nobody needs, not here and no where, even when you mean its cool man.

Oliver, perhaps you would like to further elaborate on which part of the statement you declare no one needs? Mathijs from time to time says a lot of things that may make since at one point but can come off as hypocritical many months later... I was merly stating my observation. To open a US office when he was very clear that the US is not a primary customer base is something I (not making an insult) find to be very interesting. And what do tell will be the purpose of an office in the US?

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HAHA!!! MAthijs!!! So funny that you say there is not a big enough market of customers in the US to justify makeing US sceneries but you opened up a office here...

Hm, I re-read this thread and could not find evidence of Mathijs making that claim. In addition, I just browsed the product page, and VOILA! I found 9 U.S. sceneries available, so they are making them...

I have been in technology management for over 15 years. I've seen this same kind of argument over and over..."Oh, Linux is so much better than Microsoft!" "Cisco is over-priced - you have to use 3Com..."

The smartest people in the room ALWAYS suggested the best tool for a specific job, regardless of the brand/technology, while others simply looked down a narrow tube and could not see "the bigger picture".

They were the ones most emotional about their rationalization, ever trying to prove their point over and over. Which type of person are you?

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And what do tell will be the purpose of an office in the US?

I hope you are not a businessman, Newmanix...I'll ask you this question: how would you go about expanding into a market you hope to grow sales in? How about opening an office, thereby establishing a presence and reducing shipping costs for boxed content for that market? Now throw in some marketing campaigns based out of that office and see if you can grow the sales...

Might that be the purpose of the office in the U.S.?

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I hope you are not a businessman, Newmanix...I'll ask you this question: how would you go about expanding into a market you hope to grow sales in? How about opening an office, thereby establishing a presence and reducing shipping costs for boxed content for that market? Now throw in some marketing campaigns based out of that office and see if you can grow the sales...

Might that be the purpose of the office in the U.S.?

How about first making products that you purposefully develop directly to appeal to that market demographic first??? Guess you are no business man either eh? I am not trying to be insultful and applogize if I am coming off as such. I do really hope the US office is successful.

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Oliver, perhaps you would like to further elaborate on which part of the statement you declare no one needs? Mathijs from time to time says a lot of things that may make since at one point but can come off as hypocritical many months later... I was merly stating my observation. To open a US office when he was very clear that the US is not a primary customer base is something I (not making an insult) find to be very interesting. And what do tell will be the purpose of an office in the US?

Sorry, but you miss something: Mathijs is the owner of this forum (more or less), so he can say what he what here.

But, in difference to your "funny" statement, he not only push out things, where he don't think about before or he don't know what he talk about.

But in your statement, you don't even take the time to think about what you say: Aerosoft is in the first position a publisher and distributor, be best base to open sales offices. In the second base they also develop products, but also here you have a very "small" focus and miss totally, the the most product developed by Aerosoft are airplanes, so where is there "europian focus", or did the "stupid US customes" as you seams to see them, only fly default MS Aircrafts?

So, as your are already on a warn level here, this form of satements will bring nothing into the discussion anybody needs here, it's maybe funny for you to position yourself and make you interesting (as you think), but not in a form that will help you, this discussion and nobody who is interessted to talk (not fight) about the topic we see here. So, I am not a friend of banning, but in your case I see the time for that now, but that's Mathijs part.

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How about first making products that you purposefully develop directly to appeal to that market demographic first??? Guess you are no business man either eh? I am not trying to be insultful and applogize if I am coming off as such. I do really hope the US office is successful.

No insult taken here :D

As I already mentioned Newmanix, I found 9 specific U.S. sceneries (and counting! Just look - Chicago was released 2 days before Christmas), not to mention all of the U.S. developed aircraft (F16, Catalina, Beaver, Hughes H1B, Seahawk & Jayhawk, - you get the idea -etc). I haven't counted every single product on the entire website, but I'd guess there are at least 15 products (for BOTH FSX and FS9) for sale designed to be unique and appealing to the U.S. customer.

So, there are specific products (and missions, mind you!) that are aimed at the U.S. population with more on the way. I'm just trying to point out to you and others that Aerosoft does indeed cater to a multinational audience, and the U.S. is certainly one of them, hence the potential of broadening this market even further by establishing an office here. ;)

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Wow both of you really missed the point I was making here but no worries I am dropping the subject. And if you want to ban a user who has spent and continues to spend hundreds of dollars every year on this site, be my guest. It's only a topic forum, not life.

Cheers.

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Wow both of you really missed the point I was making here but no worries I am dropping the subject. And if you want to ban a user who has spent and continues to spend hundreds of dollars every year on this site, be my guest. It's only a topic forum, not life.

Cheers.

Sorry, but I pay Aerosoft 1000thd of dollars (Euros) every month therefore, that they make the job to provide my products in the world, and so far, I can say they do a good job here and when the US office helps to do this job, I am happy too.

You and all other costumers of my products or products of other developers and Aerosoft are always wellcome to bring in you ideas and of course to ask questions when you have problems with our products. You pay for this products and you have all our attention, if something don't work as it should be (and specially you have no issue to say, that I don't help you in the past), but we all, have never get any money from you to give you the right to call any statement we (or in this case Mathijs) do, as "funny" and not in the way like "I guess it's better to test your footing here by spending money on opening a office then spending less money by creating a good US scenery to test the waters first... "

A Customer is the King here, as long as his positioning is "King like" (maybe there are better words in english, but sorry, I am not speaking english :D )

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Sorry, but I pay Aerosoft 1000thd of dollars (Euros) every month therefore, that they make the job to provide my products in the world, and so far, I can say they do a good job here and when the US office helps to do this job, I am happy too.

You and all other costumers of my products or products of other developers and Aerosoft are always wellcome to bring in you ideas and of course to ask questions when you have problems with our products. You pay for this products and you have all our attention, if something don't work as it should be (and specially you have no issue to say, that I don't help you in the past), but we all, have never get any money from you to give you the right to call any statement we (or in this case Mathijs) do, as "funny" and not in the way like "I guess it's better to test your footing here by spending money on opening a office then spending less money by creating a good US scenery to test the waters first... "

A Customer is the King here, as long as his positioning is "King like" (maybe there are better words in english, but sorry, I am not speaking english :D )

Your English is just fine Oliver and I do understand your point. As this is the general discussion area, I simply stated my observations here and my thoughts based on those observations. You say Mathijs ownes this site and can say what he wants, fair enough. But when Mathijs says certain things like: Europeans are the biggest demographic and there is no point in Aerosoft ever doing American sceneries but opens a office in America, he does open himself up to commentary.

Because Aerosoft doesn't specailize in making sceneries, Mathijs answers for the external developers. Fine. But the way he answers for them sometimes, it's as if Aerosoft itself is the developer and controls what is and isn't developed. He says there is no point in making FS9 versions of certain sceneries due to sales when I find in reality, it's the actual developer who made that decision. So when he made that comment about not making American sceneries because of lack of US sales figures and then opens an office in the US, yes, I found that funny. I do think it's great that Aerosoft opened an office here, good for me. I simply hope that whomever is running that office gets a better understanding of the demographic here and we would like to see developed by Aerosoft and not just published.

You, Oliver, have the ability and time to answer for your own product. And I'll bet you don't want anyone being a rep for AES other than you. I don't see AES as an Aerosoft product any more than I see Simwings or GAP as Aerosoft products. I think it's great that Aerosoft is here to support us, but then again, the product was purchased form Aerosoft so support is expected.

Again my only point was to state my observation and if that is worth banning, then all products I have purchased and will purchase here can be purchased on other sites as well. I come for the product, I stay for the great service.

Getting back on topic, I see the point why this thread was started. And I agree with it. When someone says: our marking shows there is little life in FS9 and more for FSX, it's just cannon fodder if that person wishes not to share those results espically when results elsewhere show there are far more people using FS9 addons over FSX. Even Virtuali said they get more downloads for FS9 than FSX. Captain Sim and PMDG says it just too difficult to develop for both platforms and FSX has more potential. But they have never said it was due to a decline in FS9 sales. But Mathijs says it's different here. Well, I say when you don't sell many new FS9 products, I say of cource you will see more FSX sales.

Tell me Oliver, now that AES is ofically a FSX product, can you really say if FSX credits are more than FS9 credit sales? Surely there must be a way to measure. I'll bet, FS9 is very much out ranking FSX in that department. :)

If Mathijs feels my observations and opinions were disrepectful, then no worries, I will keep all posts to support only questions in the future.

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Tell me Oliver, now that AES is ofically a FSX product, can you really say if FSX credits are more than FS9 credit sales? Surely there must be a way to measure. I'll bet, FS9 is very much out ranking FSX in that department. :)

No, AES is not "official" a FSX Product. The situation in the shop, where Products are assigned to the FSX Kategorie, even when they are also FS2004 Products is a technical "problem" of the new shop software, where the stuff is still working on to get the products to both kategories in future and it is not a statement of aerosoft, that here are no FS2004 products anymore.

How many of the AES users are nativ FS9 or FSX users, I can't say, because I can't see that. But as I have stated some posts before, I don't need to know it, because it is not important at the moment. I know, that the base of FS9 users is big enough at the moment to give them the possiblity to use AES there, that's all what I need to know.

The desition of the development teams (like Simwings and others) or the internal development of Aerosoft, not to make a US Airportscenery at the moment is based on a long list of arguments, we (the responsable developers) will base on many points and there is the commercial aspect only one of a long lists of questions. Most of this teams need a local visit to the airports they develop, that is much easier for a airport in europe then in US, when you are based here in europe.

The big airports interesting for an international market are all more or less allready done for the FS (most of them in both versions), so we can only talk about US airports of the second line. But, as long as we have a long list of major Airports in europe not done (like scandinavic airports for example), the desition to go there is much easier and the market in europe for this airports is big and (thats what Mathijs maybe mean) much better in the commercial performance over all then we can ever generate for a "domestic" Airport in US.

The desition to make a sales office in a local market, has nothing to do with the desitions to make products of that area. If the local office will help to generate new customers for the market at all and this new customers will generate a new market for local products, it is good posible that arguments for a local project will grow. For the moment, we see the focus not in this direction.

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No, AES is not "official" a FSX Product. The situation in the shop, where Products are assigned to the FSX Kategorie, even when they are also FS2004 Products is a technical "problem" of the new shop software, where the stuff is still working on to get the products to both kategories in future and it is not a statement of aerosoft, that here are no FS2004 products anymore.

How many of the AES users are nativ FS9 or FSX users, I can't say, because I can't see that. But as I have stated some posts before, I don't need to know it, because it is not important at the moment. I know, that the base of FS9 users is big enough at the moment to give them the possiblity to use AES there, that's all what I need to know.

The desition of the development teams (like Simwings and others) or the internal development of Aerosoft, not to make a US Airportscenery at the moment is based on a long list of arguments, we (the responsable developers) will base on many points and there is the commercial aspect only one of a long lists of questions. Most of this teams need a local visit to the airports they develop, that is much easier for a airport in europe then in US, when you are based here in europe.

The big airports interesting for an international market are all more or less allready done for the FS (most of them in both versions), so we can only talk about US airports of the second line. But, as long as we have a long list of major Airports in europe not done (like scandinavic airports for example), the desition to go there is much easier and the market in europe for this airports is big and (thats what Mathijs maybe mean) much better in the commercial performance over all then we can ever generate for a "domestic" Airport in US.

The desition to make a sales office in a local market, has nothing to do with the desitions to make products of that area. If the local office will help to generate new customers for the market at all and this new customers will generate a new market for local products, it is good posible that arguments for a local project will grow. For the moment, we see the focus not in this direction.

Hi Oliver,

Very well said. Lucky for us, we have FSDT. A group of Italians that don't even visit the US and yeld the best and accurate US sceneries ever created for FS. Oliver, keep up the great work on AES! And best wishes to the US office, I truly hope is will assist Aerosoft in boosting sales in this region of the world.

Cheers!!

newmanix

BTW I hope we will see more Scandinavian sceneries too!! Word has it the new Billund airport scenery is complete for AES

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Very well said. Lucky for us, we have FSDT. A group of Italians that don't even visit the US and yeld the best and accurate US sceneries ever created for FS. Oliver, keep up the great work on AES! And best wishes to the US office, I truly hope is will assist Aerosoft in boosting sales in this region of the world.

Yes, but why don't we see more teams from the US in the community? When the FS community is as big as it could be, I whould expect, that there is also a possiblity to see a good team coming from there. For europe we see nearly in each country a good team, like for UK, France and Germany, but why is there no US Airport Team?

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Yes, but why don't we see more teams from the US in the community? When the FS community is as big as it could be, I whould expect, that there is also a possiblity to see a good team coming from there. For europe we see nearly in each country a good team, like for UK, France and Germany, but why is there no US Airport Team?

You have a very good point there Oliver! I do assume (although I may be wrong) that Imagine Sim, Fly Tampa, and Blue... yuck... Blueprint are US developers. But honestly I am not sure. I would have no problem investing in developing new sceneries but I personally don't have the knowledge and skill to do it myself.

I guess since the Americans created the platform, the rest of the world should do the addons LOL! I haven't a clue honestly. What made you decide to create AES? I guess at some point you either had software development knowledge or taught yourself to do it on your own... I do wonder why we don't have more developers here though... Thank God for FSDT! : :P

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... Thank God for FSDT! : :P

Of course, but they are one of the less team, which have a full commercial intention, because some, maybe not all of the team members are fulltime developeres. And when you have a look to the projects they do, this are all airports, which are oriented to have a good success all over the world (like JFK,ORD, Vegas and Hawai) and that they are US airports is only a side effect. And I think, they will leave the area soon, when there is no more airports left, fitting to that goal.

Flytampa is "half" US, Martin is German and only living near by the US. But in there Projects you see, that they make projects not only on the market oriented base, Martin in special makes project he like to do, where he has fun with. Based on his qualitiy he can be save, that there will be a market for his projects too.

ImagineSim has started with airports mostly in US, maybe because several teammembers (also not all) are located there, but as you see, they have left the area too now and see a better success in other areas of the world.

The most developers in the scene where "FS Users" at the beginning, then the combine there knowhow in IT, 3d Design or graphical artists with there hobby and then they come to a point, where the invested time grows or they move normal buisiness time to this area and so they start in the commercial part of the market. But the most do it beside there normal job and there are only a hand (maybe two) full of employeed developers in the howl addon market.

This situation makes it diffcult to fullfill all request of the market, even when there is a commercial base possible. The most developers first ask themself, if they are interested to make a project and to take all the time to invest here, take all the risk for the success and then, in a second question, they look for which project has the best chance to make the overall benefit.

Maybe the europian community is bigger or was bigger in the past, so that more of this "FS-Users" in the categroie above was generated, that will result in the situation, that the europian area is better stuffed and so we see more here.

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Very interesting topics here - from freeware download charts to FS9-vs-FSX developing to box-vs-downloads discussion and so on... <_<

To the box/downloads story I'd like to add that from most publishers I always preferred the box because of one reason: avoid online activation.

Thanks to the Aerosoft system, it does not apply here. Box or download: run installer, insert key, fire up the sim and fly...

Registration is only needed for updates or support, and even after installing a patch, there is no tendency to phone home.

And once downloaded, you don't have to use internet access again.

Other publishers tend to use various torture instruments:

- use credit card details in installers

- collect personal data

- put license keys or hidden files somewhere on your PC

- restrict the amount of possible installs

- sell plane on DVD, but charge extra for 2 optional livery packs included on the DVD using the online procedure

An example: there are 3 different P-38 Lightning payware planes for FSX out there (JustFlight/Aeroplane Heaven, Sky Unlimited and FSD).

I've got the JF/AH box, but as it has it's usual prop flaws in FSX SP2, I'm not using it anymore. The other two P-38s use different online activation procedures and require internet access.

I'm not very happy doing this as listed above. Also, if I'm going to change my computer (and if you see that FS9 is almost 7 years old - how many PCs have you used during that time...), it's not only the extra hassle to get everything registered again, but it might be the good will of the publisher to renew a license (if he still exists in a few years). So, I'm not buying any of them.

And for FSX (SP2) freeware:

Yes, it is not a lot, but e.g. quite a few planes are really brilliant, like all Dave Garwood planes or Dino Cattaneo's Boeing T-45C.

Just my two pence.

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Yes, but why don't we see more teams from the US in the community? When the FS community is as big as it could be, I whould expect, that there is also a possiblity to see a good team coming from there. For europe we see nearly in each country a good team, like for UK, France and Germany, but why is there no US Airport Team?

I think there are many things that make this as it is:

  • It is much harder to get the access to the airports in the way a good development team needs.
  • The US market is simply not very strong or very big. This is a chicken and egg issue, where the products are removed from the shops and customers don't see them anymore and buy even less. We seen exactly the same in the once very strong Japanese market. Download products work well for existing customers, but boxes bring in new customers, something very important. The opposite (a growing market both in boxed and downloads) can be seen in countries where we were able in increase the amount of boxes in the shops (like France and Spain). We get new customers from those countries.
  • Blame MS, Nintendo and Sony. They done all they can to explain to everybody that games should be played on consoles. The PC games market is wiped out by this idea in Japan, well underway in the USA (just check how much space PC games have in stores next to console games) and they are now working on Europe in earnest. I don't actually blame them, little piracy, nice controlled environment, little support. There is a major move from PC's to netbooks and advanced phones. I do loads of things I used to do on a PC now on these things that can't play big games (like typing this answer). We seen over the last 18 months that sales of PC's that can play FS have dropped in the US at a faster pace then in Europe.
  • Delivering large products digitally is not easy in many parts of the US where download speeds are on average slower then in Europe. This is becoming a bigger issue for us as products grow in size.
  • And last... Aviation has lost a lot of the magic in the USA it still has in Europe. Americans see it as transports. You see this in the whole commercial hobby around aviation, from books to dvd's and even in hobbies like aircraft spotting. All these seem to be a bit bigger in Europe then in the US.

Btw, newmanix, I don't "own this site", I just work at Aerosoft and one of many people. I also did not state it makes no sense to do US based products, we would love to handle more of them if they are offered. We keep our own development teams on projects we think will do well. As you will see in 2010, this is not only on Germany. We are for example planning some airports in the Middle East and Asia as there are airports there that grow much faster then airports in Europe and Asia and seriously lack attention.

It's a bit funny to see these discussions popping up every year or so. Before FS5.1 the FS add-on scene was mostly located in the USA, after that it seemed to have moved to Europe. There is a slight frustration from the US simmers about this, very understandable. If the focus would move across the ocean right now we would see the same in from Europe. Personally I see the main reason as rather simple, people do what they want, buy what they want. Aerosoft just follow, just as all other commercial developers. To assign us to power to shape the market is a gross overestimation of our powers. If there would be a big market for US products I am sure some enterprising soul would have seen that opening in the market already.

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Flytampa is "half" US, Martin is German and only living near by the US. But in there Projects you see, that they make projects not only on the market oriented base, Martin in special makes project he like to do, where he has fun with. Based on his qualitiy he can be save, that there will be a market for his projects too.

Right, what makes FlyTampa work is the obvious love they have for what they do. Martin is a great artist and so good that he will make money on every project he does. In that way he's an exception in the market.

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I think there are many things that make this as it is:

  • It is much harder to get the access to the airports in the way a good development team needs.
  • The US market is simply not very strong or very big. This is a chicken and egg issue, where the products are removed from the shops and customers don't see them anymore and buy even less. We seen exactly the same in the once very strong Japanese market. Download products work well for existing customers, but boxes bring in new customers, something very important. The opposite (a growing market both in boxed and downloads) can be seen in countries where we were able in increase the amount of boxes in the shops (like France and Spain). We get new customers from those countries.
  • Blame MS, Nintendo and Sony. They done all they can to explain to everybody that games should be played on consoles. The PC games market is wiped out by this idea in Japan, well underway in the USA (just check how much space PC games have in stores next to console games) and they are now working on Europe in earnest. I don't actually blame them, little piracy, nice controlled environment, little support. There is a major move from PC's to netbooks and advanced phones. I do loads of things I used to do on a PC now on these things that can't play big games (like typing this answer). We seen over the last 18 months that sales of PC's that can play FS have dropped in the US at a faster pace then in Europe.
  • Delivering large products digitally is not easy in many parts of the US where download speeds are on average slower then in Europe. This is becoming a bigger issue for us as products grow in size.
  • And last... Aviation has lost a lot of the magic in the USA it still has in Europe. Americans see it as transports. You see this in the whole commercial hobby around aviation, from books to dvd's and even in hobbies like aircraft spotting. All these seem to be a bit bigger in Europe then in the US.

Btw, newmanix, I don't "own this site", I just work at Aerosoft and one of many people. I also did not state it makes no sense to do US based products, we would love to handle more of them if they are offered. We keep our own development teams on projects we think will do well. As you will see in 2010, this is not only on Germany. We are for example planning some airports in the Middle East and Asia as there are airports there that grow much faster then airports in Europe and Asia and seriously lack attention.

It's a bit funny to see these discussions popping up every year or so. Before FS5.1 the FS add-on scene was mostly located in the USA, after that it seemed to have moved to Europe. There is a slight frustration from the US simmers about this, very understandable. If the focus would move across the ocean right now we would see the same in from Europe. Personally I see the main reason as rather simple, people do what they want, buy what they want. Aerosoft just follow, just as all other commercial developers. To assign us to power to shape the market is a gross overestimation of our powers. If there would be a big market for US products I am sure some enterprising soul would have seen that opening in the market already.

One more reason somebody just told me. If you are a aviation fanatic in Europe or Asia you are likely to go into simming, if you are like that in the US there is a good chance you will be flying for real. I also got my license in the US for the simple reason it costs half. If I would be in the US and not in France I would still be flying for sure. General aviation is just many times bigger in the US then it is elsewhere. Not saying pilot licenses are as common as drivers licenses, but it is really expensive, restricted and a bit boring in Europe.

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