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VATSIM multi-player soaring

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I've just installed FSInn and FSCopilot, and registered an account with VATSIM, and it seems you can fly multiplayer in VATSIM with weather from your local PC, i.e. not dependent upon real weather. I'm trying to work out if this means VATSIM would actually work for multi-player soaring.

The logon/multi-player bit seemed pretty straightforward - I can load a saved glider flight and end up sitting on a gliding airfield with Traffic Toolbox telling me there are a dozen or two other pilots typically in heavy jets at 30,000 feet plus, and can go fly pretty much as if I'm still single player and I'm guessing if some other glider pilot was at the same field I'd be able to see him. But if multiple players chose to use local weather instead of 'real weather' and loaded the *same* flight, would their FSX times be synchronised?

Has anyone tried it & know more about it than me? Funky you admitted somewhere you've got a VATSIM account.

B21

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I've just installed FSInn and FSCopilot, and registered an account with VATSIM, and it seems you can fly multiplayer in VATSIM with weather from your local PC, i.e. not dependent upon real weather. I'm trying to work out if this means VATSIM would actually work for multi-player soaring.

You have to disable (via COVAX Button?) the online weather used by VATSIM. Don't see any reason as to why not.

The logon/multi-player bit seemed pretty straightforward - I can load a saved glider flight and end up sitting on a gliding airfield with Traffic Toolbox telling me there are a dozen or two other pilots typically in heavy jets at 30,000 feet plus, and can go fly pretty much as if I'm still single player and I'm guessing if some other glider pilot was at the same field I'd be able to see him.

Yes you can fly virtualy anywhere you want but observing flying into Controlled Zones. Don't see as to why you will not be able to see other pilots/aircraft.

But if multiple players chose to use local weather instead of 'real weather' and loaded the *same* flight, would their FSX times be synchronised?

Has anyone tried it & know more about it than me? Funky you admitted somewhere you've got a VATSIM account.

B21

If the flight has been saved at say 12:00 with custom weather then even if you log on at 21:00 your times are as the saved flight. You must include within your flight plan/intensions that you are on daylight settings.

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If the flight has been saved at say 12:00 with custom weather then even if you log on at 21:00 your times are as the saved flight. You must include within your flight plan/intensions that you are on daylight settings.

This sound like a show-stopper - for soaring the multi-player clocks need to be synchronised or we won't have the same thermals. Any idea if you can do that but still fly with your own weather? . I wonder if there's a solution with an existing multi-player service or whether there's no alternative to having a dedicated soaring multi-player server.

B21

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This sound like a show-stopper - for soaring the multi-player clocks need to be synchronised or we won't have the same thermals. Any idea if you can do that but still fly with your own weather? . I wonder if there's a solution with an existing multi-player service or whether there's no alternative to having a dedicated soaring multi-player server.

B21

I can't see there being an issue on time's/synchronisation. If you set up the flight then distribute it to 50 other guy's and everyone is using the same flight then as far as I can see you will all be on the same time and using the same weather. Each individual on logging on must select CAVOX (it turns Red) in FSInn/Copilot, then load up the flight.

I'm still looking into setting up a Server but this wouln't happen now untill after Christmas.

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I can't see there being an issue on time's/synchronisation.

If one person loaded a FLT/WX/PLN and connected to VATSIM, and another pilot loaded the same FLT half an hour later and joined VATSIM, and the pilots then tried to thermal together, wouldn't their FSX clocks be out by half an hour ??

B21

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If one person loaded a FLT/WX/PLN and connected to VATSIM, and another pilot loaded the same FLT half an hour later and joined VATSIM, and the pilots then tried to thermal together, wouldn't their FSX clocks be out by half an hour ??

B21

Correct, but, if that player adjusted his time forward by 30 minutes prior to conecting then he should be in sync with everyone else. The weather should adjust by the 30 minutes also.

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Ah, now that I get...

I wonder if there's a possible protocol we could use that made it work in practice... we'd need to agree to load the same flight before joining, and I wonder what would be the best way of getting everyone's FSX clock synchronised? Either the 'event organiser' broadcasts his FSX time over chat and other pilots adjust their time, or maybe we define ahead of schedule the offset of FSX time for the event from real GMT time.

In fact, now I think about it, the simplest definition of common FSX time would be the *real* time at the starting airport, as that is the same for everyone, and we'd need to pick locations for events that where the real time makes sense - e.g. an evening sim event in Europe could be set at Mifflin, USA. This all feels a bit relativistic but I'm getting there...

B21

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If you have Teamspeak and are registered then I can't see any issue with us both picking a day and time to log in and have a play around to see what's what!

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I'm game on to have a try but I've had FSInn for five minutes so I might need a few hints getting the comms started. FSInn has built in VATSIM Voice but I've never used it - is that what we should be using or is a separate installation of Teamspeak the best approach ?

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I'm game on to have a try but I've had FSInn for five minutes so I might need a few hints getting the comms started. FSInn has built in VATSIM Voice but I've never used it - is that what we should be using or is a separate installation of Teamspeak the best approach ?

Within FSInn/Copilot and once connected to VATSIM tune into a controllers frequency then you should be able to communicate with that controller, no other voice programme needs to be installed. For chating with a mate etcetera then you can run Teamspeak, select a different "push to talk" button and chat away as usual. VATSIM have thier Teamspeak set up with various Departure/Arrival Rooms.

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so I need to install Teamspeak to talk to you.. ? Then do we need to agree some server to connect Teamspeak to ? If we try this are you ok loading Peter Luerkens "Task 2" so we've loaded the same FLT, WX etc, or do you think something else ??

B21

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so I need to install Teamspeak to talk to you.. ? Then do we need to agree some server to connect Teamspeak to ? If we try this are you ok loading Peter Luerkens "Task 2" so we've loaded the same FLT, WX etc, or do you think something else ??

B21

You could install Teamspeak, if you are a VATSIM member then you apply for access to their TS Server, all relatively straight forward.

I'll get hold of Task 2 (may already have it, will check) and give it a go.

As far as I'm aware VATSIM is allowing Glider flights (VFR) on the network going by UK VGA's website.

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For world wide online team soaring it would be good to agree on a "pure daylight" time pattern. As the thermals are sync'ed only if all users have the same time-of-the-year, it is necessary that all have the same time settings. An easy one is just using real time. This however, would urge people to rise during their night if they want to participate in a soaring event on the other side of the globe. To increase the possible common time frames, I'd like to propose using a time scheme that is constrained to a window of say 4x(12-6 pm), or 3x(11am-7pm), mapped to GMT 1x(12am-12pm). This gives soaring opportunities 'round the clock, and people from different regions can easier adapt to meeting each other.

There is nothing necessary on the the server side. On the client side, one simply has to start with real time, and then advance or return the clock by integer fractions of 6 or 8 hrs, until the time window is achieved (and keeping the same date at GMT). A similar thing has to be done with the date, let's say it's June, all the time. An example:

I load my flight and I am at the desired regions. I go to the Time dialog and there it is 7:10pm, December 6th, GMT 6:10pm, Dec. 6th, too. I set month to June, and return the clock 6hrs back to fall into the window from 12pm-6pm. As GMT time does not wrap around everyting is ok.

If conditions are such that GMT clock would wrap around, i.e. GMT time before 6am, I would have to advance the clock by 18 hrs instead, to maintain the current GMT date.

Basically this procedure implies a predefined setting of the clock, without the necessit of individual agreements. So anybody who knows can join and has the correct conditions. By referencing real GMT time, the synchronization is clear and easy (within some seconds), and does not depend on a special start event.

regards,

Peter

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Agree'd, my time is always set at 12:00 mid day anyway (most of the time). All I would then have to do is set the month to June/July or August! Likewise, if someone had a flight pre defind then distributed it to those who wish to participate then, bob's yer uncle, its done when they all load up and then log on.

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It's important that all have the same clock setting when they meet in air. FSX MP does this for free, but VATSIM not. If they all load the flight at the same time, ok. But people who join later, may have to adjust. Therefore the general rule, which sync's the time appropriately.

regards,

Peter

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I get the concept Peter, and tried writing out some instructions, but they began looking complicated (start with real GMT and adjust in increments of 8 hours until required local time is between 11am and 7pm...).

Maybe a web-page with a FSX SOARING 8-HOUR CLOCK would simplify things... the idea would be the web page would list countries and soaring airfields, and display an "FSX Soaring Local Time" for each airfield.

It would basically be a mangled version of this FSX Soaring Clock (not finished yet) where the countries/airfields would be listed and the clocks would run from 11am to 7pm i.e. reset to 11am every 8 hours (or maybe we'll use a 6-hour clock), using Peter's formula.

The advantage of Peter's technique is from 11am to 7pm real local time at the location of the chosen airport, the FSX Soaring Clock equates to real local time. After 7pm, you deduct 8 hours from local time - this formula is simple for people flying from airfields in their own timezone and you don't really need the FSX Soaring Clock. But if you're soaring a continent away from your home you can check the FSX Soaring Clock and find the time to set your FSX local time to.

I'm assuming the date/wx/pln would still come from the agreed shared saved flight, and the instructions become: load flight, set FSX time to that given on the FSX Soaring Clock for that country/airfield.

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