A new simulator

[TF-197 28]

Hello all,

my first post here. I read the discussion about Aerosoft's commitment to develop a new flight sim.

I had an idea for the ATC:

Aerosoft opens a voice server running a software similar to Teamspeak. Frequency change moves the user to the corresponding channel on the server. Users that have proven themselves to be good air traffic controllers would be the chosen to manage the traffic. Then you get really well-organised ATC that is not related to any "foreign" organisation like VATSIM.

A second idea:

Flight school system. People that want to fly online have to pass a Flying school with several check rides. I am not sure whether to make this mandatory for everyone or voluntary. But in general i like the idea to "educate" the flying people. Successful check rides would give you additional permissions, e.g. you passed a VFR license and now you are allowed to file your own flight plans. If you dont have the corresponding license, your flight instructor can file a flight plan that you eloborated together with your flight instructor.

And i have a last question, i didnt find an answer to this question yet, sorry if i overlooked it: Will there be helicopters and are you planning on adding scenery especially customized for helicopter pilots? E.g. helipads for hospitals or companys, maybe oil rigs, passenger ship helipads etc?

Dont bash me please if i over looked similar ideas/questions i read previous topics to see if this was already mentioned.

there is also another online chat thing called Ventrlio, although it costs it is a lot more worth it, much better comms and doesn't take up nearly as much bandwidth as TS3 and the admins have much more options on Ventrilo. i was a moderator on Ventrilo for a FSX server till they decided to stop peying and go for TS3 because the Admin had to pay for other things after the economy crash landed here in Iceland. And being a moderator on Ventrilo is much easier and user friendlier thans TS3 and being a moderator on TS3 is a lot more trouble and there you have limited bandwidth as to no limitation on Ventrilo

[derdoe 1]

there is also another online chat thing called Ventrlio, although it costs it is a lot more worth it, much better comms and doesn't take up nearly as much bandwidth as TS3 and the admins have much more options on Ventrilo. i was a moderator on Ventrilo for a FSX server till they decided to stop peying and go for TS3 because the Admin had to pay for other things after the economy crash landed here in Iceland. And being a moderator on Ventrilo is much easier and user friendlier thans TS3 and being a moderator on TS3 is a lot more trouble and there you have limited bandwidth as to no limitation on Ventrilo

It wasnt a suggestion for any specific software, it was meant as an example.

[Dotsalgon 13]

Ok.. But what about other people who do not want to fly online but still want to see other traffic? For example.. I am not flying online but I do see real traffic as I have downloaded over 400 AI airlines. Landing in Heathrow (offline) and still see British Airways fleet, the A380s of Emirates and Singapore, the B777 of Qatar and many many many others... The only problem is the AI system which is not so sofisticated.

[Jari Junior 17]

my english is bad.. but I have to say my oppinion:

after +15 yrs using simulators, the major fault are the sceneries. MS fail hard. They focused 90% in the visual scenery and forgot about the FDE.

-aerobatic planes we can do "alien turns" if we use only the rudder.

- there is suspension balance when you land a plane.

- there are no sloped runways

- reality settings? nevermind! If you want make a simulator, its a SIMULATOR. No reality settings are needed. Everything should be set to the max.

- no ctrl+e, shift+m

- full ground services integration - fuel trucks, de-ice working.

- motion effects like zoom, landing cameras, shaking cameras .. are MUST-HAVE (like ezdok). No unrealistic useless 2D cockpits (they're all). When you land you have to "feel" the plane so we dont need a static panel in front of us. Its not a video-game.

- simply and light sceneries. If we want powerful sceneries, we install.

- seriously? the size... I preffer like a 4gb simulator without any scenery, just default mesh and install them like x-plane (I dont mind if the full world installation takes 90gb)

- smooth is the word, so let the details for the cockpits and planes. If you want a good scenery, buy an addon!

- -IMPORTANT- the real "pilot's view". I'm a private pilot and when I do a traffic pattern the difference between the real and the simulation "in my eyes". When you're in a real small plane flying at 1000ft you really feel that you're flying high. In FSX if you do a traffic pattern at 1000ft you look below and can see every (I mean EVERY) detail. Its like fly at 100ft.

- ATC ... well I can write things for 1 hour here... so "just improve it"

- do a REAL simulator. Some people think they can enter in a 737 and just fly easily - you can see videos on youtube about people who dont even know what a flap is, landing a 747 easily. Make them REAL. If you want fly a boeing, go study, go read, go watch tutorials. Make the sim "as real as it gets"

- I know you guys have to make a product to all kind of people but you have to understand the differences between "SIMULATOR" and "GAME". I'll explain: I was waiting for a truck simulator called rig n' roll. I was waiting for 8 years. (not 8 days or 8 months, 8 years). Every week I entered in the site and same promises showed up: "the BEST simulator" "the BEST truck simulator experience" "drive like a REAL truckdriver". The game is out in march and its a DISASTER. A completly DISASTER because they make a "game", not a "simulator". This is annoying, seriously. This was the first game I was thinking to buy it. But I just noticed the complete fail from the developers in promise something that they cant do it and its a total lack of respect for the costumers. Just for this I downloaded the game from the net. If a developer dont respect the customer (promise A and deliver B they should be pay for the error. That means: i'll not pay for the game, and i'll gonna play it anyway.

- Dont get me wrong.. the aerosoft company is growing up nicely.. but you're planning to deliver the brand-new-SIMULATOR in 2012? I dont mind to wait untill 2015 if the simulator IS GOOD (and I mean GOOD, not a game). Untill now I had all flight simulator addons, from all developers and I never spended money for this. The only 2 things I bought are the trackclip pro hardware (from aerosoft) and the EZDok from Flight1. I really hope you make AFS better then FSX or X-PLANE (with addons) and i'll buy it for sure.

Thats it.. for now. when I remember more things i'll post here (if I dont get banned) - but I have to say what I think

----------------------------

EDIT:

-Real ACARS integration. I dont know HOW the pmdg didnt make it yet. Its "simple" to do if you have a server db. Just make a db with some scripts about informations, kneeboards, metar, flightplanes (for VAs purposes) and sids\stars. When you log into your airplane acars (777 for example) this acars connect to the db and you can navigate and use all the available information from the server in real-time. This is not a big issue to make it.

btw, what is this? http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/soe/facilities/page5267.html

[Arista 64]

i'll not pay for the game, and i'll gonna play it anyway.

[...]

Untill now I had all flight simulator addons, from all developers and I never spended money for this.

So you're a software pirate? Great! Exactly the kind of - well - non-customer Aerosoft likes most. With that kind of attitude, you're certainly gonna be most welcome on this board, methinks...

Judith

[Steveyb 0]

....having been a flight simmer since the beginning of time it seems, and listening to the overwhelming topic of poor frame rates, (apparently an inevitable inherent problem with this kind of sim)......I am thinking most customers would prefer focus on elliminating this hurdle once and for all..........me personally have spent hundreds of pounds over the years to get FSX to perform...which makes me wonder if microsoft have some sort of deal going on regarding hardware manufacturers (they show the eye-candy, you chase it),but I"ll cost yu! I do not envy aerosoft, the expectations of customers will be high due to years of fustration with previous sims.

[schmiefel 1]

my english is bad.. but I have to say my oppinion:

after +15 yrs using simulators, the major fault are the sceneries. MS fail hard. They focused 90% in the visual scenery and forgot about the FDE.

(...)

- Dont get me wrong.. the aerosoft company is growing up nicely.. but you're planning to deliver the brand-new-SIMULATOR in 2012? I dont mind to wait untill 2015 if the simulator IS GOOD (and I mean GOOD, not a game). Untill now I had all flight simulator addons, from all developers and I never spended money for this. The only 2 things I bought are the trackclip pro hardware (from aerosoft) and the EZDok from Flight1. I really hope you make AFS better then FSX or X-PLANE (with addons) and i'll buy it for sure.

Thats it.. for now. when I remember more things i'll post here (if I dont get banned) - but I have to say what I think

(...)

btw, what is this? http://www.cranfield...s/page5267.html

Normally I don't reply to personal messages in such discussions... but in that case I couldn't stand to make some remarks:

- first: why do you download and play products that you don't like at all?

- second: I think you mixed up some things. That kind of simulator you're looking for you can rent on an hourly basis or so (e.g. www.flugsimulator-berlin.de) ... but for prices you can buy FSX and some of the best add-ons that are available today ... and not only use them for some hours but as often as you like! I think that even when Aerosoft talks about a next generation flight simulator (compared to FSX today) they are anyway talking about a "computer game" at all... the difference between that and arcade style games like HAWKX is that Aerosoft tries to get as much reality simulated as possible for their kind of market ... and from that point of view you're getting a lot of simulation feeling for a more than fair price!

To get me right: some of your demands should be done in a next generation pc flight simulator - but "punishing" the developer/publisher for that they may not achieve the "reality" you only can get in professional systems for much higher rates than most of the simmer community could ever afford, seems not the right way for me.

Minimum you should respect the developers work and give the refund they demand for, when you want to "play" with their products - or leave it, if it does not meet your needs!

With kind regards Michael

[Jari Junior 17]

Hey Michael..

"first: why do you download and play products that you don't like at all?"

Because i'll not buy what I dont have 100% sure if its good or not.

"but for prices you can buy FSX and some of the best add-ons that are available today"

I have them all.

"the difference between that and arcade style games like HAWKX is that Aerosoft tries to get as much reality simulated as possible for their kind of market ... and from that point of view you're getting a lot of simulation feeling for a more than fair price!"

Depends what kind of "simulation" you want.. I want reality. As pilot I know the difference between arcade and simulation for sure

"some of your demands should be done in a next generation pc flight simulator" - its not a really a demand... its just some good points I think.

""punishing" the developer/publisher for that they may not achieve the "reality" you only can get in professional systems for much higher rates"

well, not really. I didnt mean graphical reality. I mean FDE reality and you "dont" need a high-end computer to simulate a sloped runway or a simple fmgc with a virtual acars integration. - that's why I said dont maximize the potential in the scenery, but in the airplanes, fde, etc.

Minimum you should respect the developers work and give the refund they demand for, when you want to "play" with their products - or leave it, if it does not meet your needs!

Depends. Do you really think i'll respect a developer who say: "complete a380 simulated airplane" and when you buy and use the plane you note the plane flies like an extra300 ? Without full fmgc? I dont think so. I tried ezdok for FREE before I buy it. I bought because I think the developer respect the purpose of the addon. He do what he told, he sells what he saying. Nothing more. The developer who promise a product and deliver another should not get money for this. Its a total lack of respect for the customers.

"With kind regards Michael"

Same, Jari Junior

[Jari Junior 17]

So you're a software pirate? Great! Exactly the kind of - well - non-customer Aerosoft likes most. With that kind of attitude, you're certainly gonna be most welcome on this board, methinks...

Judith

Ok, let me ask something...

is your flightsimulator addons (all of them) are originals???

dont you have ANY mp3 on your computer?

ok.. so dont call pirate.

what I said is real and I dont like to lie. 99% of customers here have "unoriginal" addons, so why this bull*** ? cut this bla bla bla and lets get to the real thing. Its like what I said b4, I'll buy it IF the "SIMULATOR" is a real "simulator".. or if the software achiev what the developer promised. That's it.

[Hiflyer 129]

Ok, let me ask something...

is your flightsimulator addons (all of them) are originals???

dont you have ANY mp3 on your computer?

ok.. so dont call pirate.

what I said is real and I dont like to lie. 99% of customers here have "unoriginal" addons, so why this bull*** ? cut this bla bla bla and lets get to the real thing. Its like what I said b4, I'll buy it IF the "SIMULATOR" is a real "simulator".. or if the software achiev what the developer promised. That's it.

Lovely. How to make friends and influence people.

I would be fascinated to know why you think the developers would take an admitted pirates suggestions on pretty much anything seriously.

Were I you, The mental contortions I would have to go through to believe your current approach serves any purpose but mildly gaudy entertainment would have to put even the blue angels aerobatics to shame.

But!

Do go on!

[schmiefel 1]

Hey Michael..

"first: why do you download and play products that you don't like at all?"

Because i'll not buy what I dont have 100% sure if its good or not.

"but for prices you can buy FSX and some of the best add-ons that are available today"

I have them all.

"the difference between that and arcade style games like HAWKX is that Aerosoft tries to get as much reality simulated as possible for their kind of market ... and from that point of view you're getting a lot of simulation feeling for a more than fair price!"

Depends what kind of "simulation" you want.. I want reality. As pilot I know the difference between arcade and simulation for sure

"some of your demands should be done in a next generation pc flight simulator" - its not a really a demand... its just some good points I think.

""punishing" the developer/publisher for that they may not achieve the "reality" you only can get in professional systems for much higher rates"

well, not really. I didnt mean graphical reality. I mean FDE reality and you "dont" need a high-end computer to simulate a sloped runway or a simple fmgc with a virtual acars integration. - that's why I said dont maximize the potential in the scenery, but in the airplanes, fde, etc.

Minimum you should respect the developers work and give the refund they demand for, when you want to "play" with their products - or leave it, if it does not meet your needs!

Depends. Do you really think i'll respect a developer who say: "complete a380 simulated airplane" and when you buy and use the plane you note the plane flies like an extra300 ? Without full fmgc? I dont think so. I tried ezdok for FREE before I buy it. I bought because I think the developer respect the purpose of the addon. He do what he told, he sells what he saying. Nothing more. The developer who promise a product and deliver another should not get money for this. Its a total lack of respect for the customers.

"With kind regards Michael"

Same, Jari Junior

Hi Jari,

I think it doesn't make much sense to discuss that much deeper ;-) ... I won't follow your approach of "downloading but not paying not-100%-perfect-products" ... it's your decision to do it that way and I don't want to blame you for that - it's not my way! I simply read between the lines of marketing and real product features when publishers/developers tell me something about their product... and, yes, sometimes I get products that don't fit what they proposed...that's live ;-)

But maybe you should think about, if games like FSX are the right stuff for you, or you better should look for something like that: Aerosoft "Airline Simulator 3, Pilot Flying" (Discussion Forum: http://www.forum.aer...howtopic=28022) ... as much as I've followed the discussion there, the focus will be on the simulation of the job the PF will have to do ... and not the simulation of a whole world with flying stuff around ...

Kind regards Michael

[Klemm-35 13]

Moikka Jari,

Michael is really right; it doesn't make any sence to discuss deeper, but this kind of attitudes can make one really annoyed. Or am I just too old-fashioned? If so, then I'm quite happy.

Ok, you asked Judith, but let me answer:

is your flightsimulator addons (all of them) are originals???

Yes, see below

dont you have ANY mp3 on your computer?

Yes, I have. My old CD's, since the time of Disc-man's is over and we use mp3-playes nowerdays.

ok.. so dont call pirate.

Does "thief" sound better to you? Do you steel cars to test them if they are what you are looking for? The only difference is that you buy the car (or whatever) in itself and for software you buy a license which allowes you to use it.

So, why it makes me really angry when Fs and piracy comes together: Do you have a clue about developing add-ons? I have some. After a bit more than one year learning and trying I'm coming into the direction that I like what I do, but I'm LIGHTYEARS away from that what you download. I hope you know that most Add-on's are developed by single people in free time. I think, you don't have any clue how much time they spend on a single project. I have read a statement from one developer who said that he has certainly lost the joy cause the product is x times more pirated than bought. Gosh, add-on's are so cheap nowerdays, specially when I see it in relation to the work involved.

You don't hurt a big company, you hurt single people!

Sorry, I just needed to say that.

T.

Kai

[Vee One 33]

Moikka Jari,

Michael is really right; it doesn't make any sence to discuss deeper, but this kind of attitudes can make one really annoyed. Or am I just too old-fashioned? If so, then I'm quite happy.

Ok, you asked Judith, but let me answer:

Yes, see below

Yes, I have. My old CD's, since the time of Disc-man's is over and we use mp3-playes nowerdays.

Does "thief" sound better to you? Do you steel cars to test them if they are what you are looking for? The only difference is that you buy the car (or whatever) in itself and for software you buy a license which allowes you to use it.

So, why it makes me really angry when Fs and piracy comes together: Do you have a clue about developing add-ons? I have some. After a bit more than one year learning and trying I'm coming into the direction that I like what I do, but I'm LIGHTYEARS away from that what you download. I hope you know that most Add-on's are developed by single people in free time. I think, you don't have any clue how much time they spend on a single project. I have read a statement from one developer who said that he has certainly lost the joy cause the product is x times more pirated than bought. Gosh, add-on's are so cheap nowerdays, specially when I see it in relation to the work involved.

You don't hurt a big company, you hurt single people!

Sorry, I just needed to say that.

T.

Kai

You couldn't have said it better! +1

[Arista 64]

is your flightsimulator addons (all of them) are originals???

Of course they are. All them them, without exception.

dont you have ANY mp3 on your computer?

Sure I do, all of which are properly licensed.

ok.. so dont call pirate.

OK, listen up: I reserve the right to call criminals like you anything I like. Yes, right, that's what you are: a criminal. Last time I checked, theft is against the law just about everywhere.

what I said is real and I dont like to lie. 99% of customers here have "unoriginal" addons, so why this bull*** ?

Just because the crime of software piracy is widespread doesn't give you the right to commit it, too.

As pilot I know the difference between arcade and simulation for sure

How did you get your pilots license, by the way? Have you stolen it? Do you routinely refuel without paying for the gas? Do you often go for a joyride in stolen planes? Do you care about ATC instructions, or aviation regulations, for that matter?

cut this bla bla bla and lets get to the real thing.

If your attitude and character are anything like this in other areas as well, I sincerely hope I'll never come close to you in the air.

By the way, I've intentionally written my initial response in a slightly ironical way, such that it could be construed as if I'd be applauding you with a little phantasy. That you didn't interpret it in such a way, and react aggressively instead, even going as far as implicitly accusing me of the same crimes you routinely commit, speaks volumes...

Judith

[F_nod 0]

Have they already begun working on Afs 2012 ?

We dont have any information about the up coming afs 2012.

Maybe im asking too early but, i just want to know what is going on.

F_nod

[Jambone 3]

Hey Mathijs, reckon you could do another monthly overview report in regards to progress? Really getting excited to see how you're progressing

[second 11]

I'd also love to see a quick update.

The last I have heard, they were in talks with a developer for a game engine (?). I wonder if Aerosoft is considering the "Rise of flight" game engine?

It's understandable about the lack of info, since it's still very early in the development stages (I would presume), but it's also kind of disappointing not seeing any recent updates, since we all are so interested in this new flight game.

[maxter 4]

is your flightsimulator addons (all of them) are originals???

Yes, every single piece of software on my machine is...

dont you have ANY mp3 on your computer?

No, I buy whatever I need from a proper on-line music retailer

ok.. so dont call pirate.

Well, you are a pirate and so are all of the other people who steal software...

so why this bull*** ? cut this bla bla bla and lets get to the real thing.

You may call it bull*** but piracy is stealing, nothing else. If you engage in it, then you are a thief. Nothing else to say...

[Massimo1 2]

Hi

I have just signed up to this forum just for this topic which is a very important to me. As a casual FSer I play for one real reason, to be able to see the world from where not many people do.

I find that no matter what FS i play the world detail just isn't there.

I have been think, and was wondering how hard it would be to incorperate Google Earth into this. I know the ground textures are not fantastic but they are alright at least. What is more important to me is incorperating the 3D buildings they have.

I live in Adeliade South Australia and there is no sim that incorperates our city into it. But if you look at google earth there are a few buildings and it is growing every day.

Also with incorperating this it could be a quarterly update as well, so as more detail is put into google earth the FS can be updated accordinly. This means everyone can create a building in Google Sketch for free, and have it added to google earth. Then with a quartly update they will have there structure in the FS and google earth.

I also believe that google earth will be interested in this as there will be alot more 3d users adding 3d buildings to there database.

This is just my two cents. Sorry about the poor wording structure but I am at work.

Cheers Massimo

P.S

1. I just thought of a few other things. I do a lot of 3d modeling at home using 3ds Max and Blender. It would be nice if Blender models can be incorperated into custom aircraft and scenery design, I would like to be able to sell my models, but because my 3DS MAX is not legal as many others blender would be a nice alternative to being able to sell you work.

2. Another point is Open CL. The possabilitys of this are beyond comprehension if anyone wants to see what gpu base rendering can do visit http://www.refractivesoftware.com/videos.html and watch the videos those renders would take like 10 to 15min on my pc and yet it is instantanious there. I mean OPEN CL as well not CUDA at least OPEN CL can be supported by any gpu brand.

There are some many things running through my head I am trying not to list them all at once. lol.

Cheers Massimo

[Klemm-35 13]

Hi folks,

I don't know if it's so right to post it, but there was a while ago a discussion in the German forum, which went to the question what the status of AFS2012 might be. My feeling that it might be a good that Aerosoft is so quiet in the moment seems to be right. That's what Mathijs answered:

It is.

I do promise that we'll be very open the moment the moment it all starts, but we are discussing with commercial partners etc and that is simply not stuff for forums.

Just to answer the questions about the status which were asked above.

Regards,

Kai

[Kinetic2080 0]

Browsed to the E3 PC-games list and saw the M$ Conference, and no news about any new sim from them so far. Personally I'm disappointed, but I guess it could be good news for projects like AFS2012, if M$ *really* isn't working on something.

-Arvid

[privateer78 9]

Dear Aerosoft Team,

your upcoming new simulator should feature decent water physics for floatplanes. FSX was a slight improvement to FS2004 in this field, but still the FSX physics leave a lot to be desired.

Redards

Eilke

[Hiflyer 129]

An additional idea, going back to the suggestion of "modules" for different aspects of the Sim, might be a Boating/Sailing module, since such add-ons seem to have some significant popularity. This might also go back to the weather simulation module to model not only atmospheric effects but also the effects of waves, currents and etc, that could be applied both to naval traffic and seaplanes etc.

[PaulPCPilot 11]

Jari

my hats off to you. Takes real guts to come on to a FS addon companies forum, and blatantly admit to have stolen products for them.

The worrying thing is you dont realise that what you are doing is stealing. And if you dont have have the common sense to realise that then you dont have the common sense and intellect to fly in the real world. I suspect you would be a danger to other pilots in the circuit.

it makes you wonder what else you do that is against the law? Maybe you added a few extra hours added to your logbook? Do you ignore ATC instructions, because you know better?

make no mistake. You ARE a criminal. I hope Mathijs reads your admission, Aerosoft have clamped down on pirates after the airbusX incident.

And before you question me, all my adons are 100% legitimate. Aerosoft make very good products and Im more than happy paying for their work. After all they have bills to pay, mortgages, heating, food etc.....that you are trying to deny them!

Good day

paul

[AviatorMbM 0]

The worrying thing is you dont realise that what you are doing is stealing.

It is not really stealing, but a criminal act though. You can not steal what you never can own, because you never "own" software unless you are the developer of the software and own the source code and the corresponding rights. If you buy software, you just buy a copy along with the licence, i.e. the permission to use it. But you don't own it. You are a user (you neither own MS Windows, nor MS Flight Simulator for example). If you use software without having purchased it (if it's payware or not your own software), you use it illegally.

It's a bit confusing since data/software is not a "thing", at least not in the German law. In Germany we have another term that is incorrect: "Raubkopie" which means something like robbery-copy and stands for pirate copy in English. The term is wrong because, not only in the German law, a robbery means violent theft. But an illegal usage of software is not a violent theft. It is an illegal usage, no more, no less. Those terms are there because of psychological reasons: those terms are intended to sound very bad/rather criminal to make people that use software illegally feel like bad humans. I don't justify the ownership of illegal copies. But I also don't think that humans that use a certain software illegally are bad humans from scratch and entirely. I claim that one can find illegal copies on the majority of computers all over the world. Even a lawyer, a police officer etc. has something on his private HDD he/she hasn't paid for. Be it just a mp3 music file here and there...

As for myself: I own only legal copies of any MS FS addon I have, since I love MS FS and Aerosoft products. I like to support them, and I would even pay a 100 Euros for an Aerosoft Flight Simulator 2012 if it's worth it. And that's the next point: I don't use software that I don't like to use. So I don't need illegal copies. However, even I have something without the right to use it on my HDD (a few music files...).