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Something just occurred to me... (sorry if its already mentioned) But I recently had a problem with a purchased scenery with planes interpenetrating while taxiing/parking and etc. The scenery manufacturer states that this is an FSX problem, as in real life planes would not ever be assigned to park so closely in such tight spaces and that they would not be routed through taxiways too narrow for the width of the plane.

I had not been aware before that the traffic AI of FSX was so deficient in those areas, but I would hope that in a next-gen product, such things could hopefully be accounted for and avoided. (I will cross my fingers!) B)

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Interesting point. That means you'd need to encode the maximum wingspan for each taxiway, gate and parking position in the airport database. Is that data even available? Alternatively, you'd need the outline of each obstacle (buildings, masts, etc.), and would need to derive the maximum wingspan algorithmically from that.

Judith

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Mathijs,

Those rendering are quite good pictures but they look a bit fuzzy/hazy(the pictures that is, it might not be the graphics-engine fault), can you show the same two pictures to us in a higher image quality 200-600kb each instead of 63kb each please??

Was that high altitude (over 20.000feet), or low (as in 3000-12.000 feet) vas that daytime(noon) or dawn or dusk?

Thanks in advance smile.gif

Best regards

Rune Skjoelingstad

Norway

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Something in a different direction for a second which probably has been mentioned already, i would love to see some accurate jet sounds in the new sim, FSX just doesn't achieve this with its whistling fly-bys and what not. This is a video of an RAF hawk flying through the mach loop, it is loud and bumpy, something fsx just doesn't replicate imo...

As for fly-bys and what not, here is a superb example of what i think we would all like to see and hear. It is poorpilots superb thunderbird flight, i believe he added real f-16 sounds during editing but is there any reason this can't be done as standard in game sounds? http://www.youtube.c...02CB07E&index=1

Also on the subject of that video, something more formation friendly than FSX would be greatly appreciated:)

These threads are huge now anyway, have you started to come up with a realistic list of features to include so we can start to see this beast being created? :)

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As for fly-bys and what not, here is a superb example of what i think we would all like to see and hear. It is poorpilots superb thunderbird flight, i believe he added real f-16 sounds during editing but is there any reason this can't be done as standard in game sounds? http://www.youtube.c...02CB07E&index=1

In-game sounds are getting better and better nowadays. Just check these in-game sounds from Armed Assault 2, where an A10 does a fly-by:

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One thing that I remember to ask is: Good and Random emergency faillures.

also I would like to have ATC dealing with Emergency. It is very important to have an option in AI ATC to inform about an emergency and also what type of emergency (Hijack, PAX heart atack, electrical, mechanical, and other failures). Depending of what type of emergency, the airport (size) will be selected and you must divert to this place. If the airplane was hijacked two figthers could appear to scort you. If is an heart attack an ambulance at the gate, if is a mechanical failure emergency ground support at the runway. Imagine when landing during a fire. you open the doors and the emergency slider goes out! The fire trucks start to control the fires...etc. I imagine that you catch the idea!

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In-game sounds are getting better and better nowadays. Just check these in-game sounds from Armed Assault 2, where an A10 does a fly-by:

That was indeed very impressive.....

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In-game sounds are getting better and better nowadays. Just check these in-game sounds from Armed Assault 2, where an A10 does a fly-by:

But hearing that brings me back to a point I always kind of wonder about. Games like Armed assault 2 come out from many companies on a fairly constant basis with a very high level of presentation, yet dedicated sims almost never seem to reach the same visceral suspension of disbelief that these "games" do.

I sometimes wonder if the sheer fun of flying; the patter of rain against the windows, the brilliant bursts of sunlight and stunning vistas... sometimes gets lost in all the subtle modeling of aeronautical minutia..........

Maybe Aerosoft will be the first to get it right.

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+1, Hiflyer!

That same thing has been bugging me! Crysis, ArmA 2, Modern Warfare 2, etc. all look awesome, and ArmA 2 is a simulator... So, why can't we have the same suspension of disbelief in a flight simulator?

I think Aerosoft can do it. B)

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But hearing that brings me back to a point I always kind of wonder about. Games like Armed assault 2 come out from many companies on a fairly constant basis with a very high level of presentation, yet dedicated sims almost never seem to reach the same visceral suspension of disbelief that these "games" do.

I sometimes wonder if the sheer fun of flying; the patter of rain against the windows, the brilliant bursts of sunlight and stunning vistas... sometimes gets lost in all the subtle modeling of aeronautical minutia..........

Maybe Aerosoft will be the first to get it right.

Great points indeed! It is beyond me why flight sims leave these things out. As I said in a previous post, immersion is the most important thing to improve from previous flight sims. This is what impresses. No matter how good the flight model is (which it should be as good as possible), if immersion is ignored, this is going to be just like every other boring flight sim of the past. I rarely get that "WOW!" feeling in flight sims; I should get that feeling in AFS2012. Please don't ignore the details, Aerosoft. Make it immersive.

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One thing that I remember to ask is: Good and Random emergency faillures.

also I would like to have ATC dealing with Emergency. It is very important to have an option in AI ATC to inform about an emergency and also what type of emergency (Hijack, PAX heart atack, electrical, mechanical, and other failures). Depending of what type of emergency, the airport (size) will be selected and you must divert to this place. If the airplane was hijacked two figthers could appear to scort you. If is an heart attack an ambulance at the gate, if is a mechanical failure emergency ground support at the runway. Imagine when landing during a fire. you open the doors and the emergency slider goes out! The fire trucks start to control the fires...etc. I imagine that you catch the idea!

That would be a great idea but i would think it would be hard also. Mathijis What do you think? also being able to use your voice to communicate with tower instead of number on a keyboard, you knowhappy.gif

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+1, Hiflyer!

That same thing has been bugging me! Crysis, ArmA 2, Modern Warfare 2, etc. all look awesome, and ArmA 2 is a simulator... So, why can't we have the same suspension of disbelief in a flight simulator?

I think Aerosoft can do it. B)

I think because of the scale. The area of Flight Simulator is the whole earth. With all those games it's just a small area or some small maps.

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I think because of the scale. The area of Flight Simulator is the whole earth. With all those games it's just a small area or some small maps.

But would Aerosoft really attempt to cover the whole world? It certainly would be ambitious, but they might also go the Orbx route and do more detailed "country packs" though that would probably mean simmers would have to wait with baited breath (maybe for quite some time) for their favorite parts of the world to be covered......

Its almost beside the point. When I think of "immersion" I am really thinking about the little things that say "you are there"

How the water and sky looks and behaves, (for instance, when you land on it) how the world "lives" with moving traffic, a variety of boats, trains and planes..... The million glittering lights of a city at night or the scattered illumination of a rural town..... traffic lights blinking...

The buffeting of the wind, and the hard jolts of a landing translated through force-feedback.... The play of light and shadow in the cockpit as the plane turns and in the world generally. (building shadows?)

Wheeling birds and spinning windmills and puffs of smoke from Chimneys in winter..... (waterfalls and rainbows and hot air balloons!)

The sounds of the planes and the world in general....... All those little things that we sometimes barely notice, but that cement at a gut level that feeling of being in a real, living world. Those are things that can be used throughout the world of the Sim irregardless of the specific locations being modeled. They are the base platform that everyone else can build upon later.

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That would be a great idea but i would think it would be hard also. Mathijis What do you think? also being able to use your voice to communicate with tower instead of number on a keyboard, you knowhappy.gif

Hi Dylan. I don't think that is so difficult but I would like to hear from Mathijis. There is a WONDERFULL softaware that already do a lot of ATC immersion. It is called Multicrew experience http://www.multicrewxp.com/ also you can look this review http://www.avsim.com/pages/0409/MultiCrewExp/MCExp.htm

It is incredible! In older posts people suggested to discard AI ATC but as I told before AI ATC allows simmers like me to fly anywhere doing everything that I want. It is not easy to master all the skills to fly, handle ATC, etc.

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Hi Dylan. I don't think that is so difficult but I would like to hear from Mathijis. There is a WONDERFULL softaware that already do a lot of ATC immersion. It is called Multicrew experience http://www.multicrewxp.com/ also you can look this review http://www.avsim.com...ewExp/MCExp.htm

It is incredible! In older posts people suggested to discard AI ATC but as I told before AI ATC allows simmers like me to fly anywhere doing everything that I want. It is not easy to master all the skills to fly, handle ATC, etc.

I agree. AI ATC should absolutely not be discarded. It should be kept, and, if possible, improved upon. I'd like to see things like UNICOM service added. Speech recognition would be a dream come true, but it may be better left to third party developers.

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Id just like to add to what i said earlier:

theres been a section in Pc Pilot lately about crossing the atlantic, He was communicating throughout the trip to various atc. He was using proper language in which youd talk to a real atc'er. But he was on Vatsim. I Do real world airline trip all the time and i like to keep things real, but keeping it real with fsx , you have to be joking. Having proper atc would help us all become more in touch with procedures.

I can understand some people may not want atc but Other do, there would be Thousands of people that would also want a proper atc and there are more then likely the same amount that dont. I think it should be include in the new sim.

Having a good Atc offline would greatly improve everyones experience from a general flight to emergencys

Cheers

Dylan

australia

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One thing i would love to see in this new sim would be sonic boom effects and sounds. and i agree with dylan if your in a fighter and doing a loop for example as he says it should be bumpy and stuff.

Edit: also mabye add some insane water fx IE, if you are flying in a F-18 for example extremely low you would see the wake behind the airplane, being able to add 3rd party airplanes/helos/scenery is a must for you guys. Im being truthful here. if you dont put that in you will lose alot of customers

Edit again: i agree with dylan again. having a realistic ATC for emergencys and such would be the best. mabye even add it so if you are landing with no gear your plane WONT instantly crash. also if you do a bad emergency landing your plane will start to burn and AI firetrucks would come out and extinguish the fire.

side note: it would be awsome if you guys got a updated version of KSEA since the new runway is installed

Edit: on the topic of the "user forum" I have been in a game that has testers in updated content. I can have proof of this. I am willing to sign a NDA and give proof of my identity to be able to access that forum.

Edit: if any1 wants to know the company it is K2 Networks (Gamersfirst) the game was War Rock. A free MMOFPS.

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Yes I also would like an offline ATC option, because with online ATC you're always bound to specific flight times (when enough people are manning the ATC). Furthermore, when flying online you'll always have to play the whole thing through and it can't be used for procedure training, where you reposition your aircraft all the time. I only use online ATC when I'm in the mood to do a full flight using realistic procedures and I can tell you that this doesn't often happen. Most of the time it's just procedure training or just a fun flight (ie. only taking off, or doing a small roundabout the airport).

The thing I most dislike about online flying is the uncontrolled gaps in between your departure and arrival airports. They really break the experience, as does an inexperienced controller at the airport or the pilots who use the system almost as a chatbox sometimes.

So a new and fresh, modular based, offline ATC option would be great. It should be able to handle SID/STAR procedures, multiple active runways and holding patterns at a minimum. This way all the stations at an airport are manned (like ground, departure, tower, etc). Voice control would be nice to have, but may be an addon for as far as I'm concerned.

A hybrid system between online and offline could also be an option. This way, the online controller doesn't have to handle all stations at the same time when he's alone at the airport, he can for example handle the tower station and the arrival station. It would probably really help him if he doesn't have to provide pilots with taxi instructions at the same time as trying to get 4 boeings to land at his airport.

Furthermore it would be nice to have a basic AES system embedded, so that scenery designers can create the whole airport experience for us.

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I agree with the many excellent advice/features lately,

I would also like to have good offline ATC, but with a "bit less robotic" voices than in FSX(so they feel more real), and perhaps add "a bit of background noice/static" other than that, very good suggestions

As the others say "Immersion" is everything when it comes to a simulator wink.gif that, and the sounds, sounds, sounds LOL biggrin.gif

Better jet-sound generally(both airliner/buisinessjets/turboprop and millitary jets ), with waay better startup and shutdown than in FSX, but do as many things as possible to improve on all sounds both piston and helicopters also .. unsure.gif

Much better AI takeoff and landing sounds (flyby-style) and add realistic start-up and shut-down sound for AI aircraft also..

How about a correct implementation af AI-helicopters that take off from helipad's or similar helicopter-sites vertically, and lands vertically.

If they could tilt forward on takoff and tilting backwards before landing as they do in the real world, to either gain speed, or to brake before landing would be a VERY cool and realistic behaviourbiggrin.gif

Mathijs, I would also be willing to sign a NDA and give some some proof of who I am.

The polling thread for this was closed before I even had a chance to think about what you asked about..

if I could get a chance to help out, or atleast know more about the product(AFS2012)earlier than others that do not sign a NDAblush.gif

regards

Rune ENHD

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Hi everybody,

it is the first time that I hear from this project. I hope I selected the right topc to post my ideas about the new SIM 2012

I am a Sim Pilot since FS3 and ATP from Sublogic.

I have now FSX and X-Plane. FSX is still my favorite.

I hope it is not too late to tell what is important to me.

  1. I fly with VATSIM and IVAO. I have a second PC for Squawkbox and IvAp, so I need something like FSUIPC or SimmConnect. A Flight Sim which does not allow to fly with VATSIM or IVAO is not usable for me.
  2. I always fly with 2 D cockpits. I don't like the 3D because resolution of the gauges is not as good. I have two monitors and place the Overhead, Throttle and FMC on the second monitor in full screen mode.
  3. I fly only airliners like 737 or A320 A321.
  4. I like the scenery in FSX because nearly all the airports have taxiway signs and taxiing and navigation on ground is possible. In X-plane you have nothing.
  5. I love the FSX SDK. I already made my own cockpit for the A321 and started with scenery design, improving my home airport.
  6. I don't like at FSX that I cannot change the navdatabase. For example to add a new VOR.
  7. I use the real weather function.
  8. I don't use the ATC
  9. I don't use the auto-generated traffic like boats and cars and all the other gimmicks like fireworks animals or the games.
    I prefer a puristic scenery but good weather and cloud simulation.
  10. I love at FSX that a lot of freeware is available. sounds, paintings scenery, panels …
  11. One of the reasons why FSX was not successful was the bad performance on Standard PC s
A lot of this things is not possible or available with X-plane. That is why I don't use it.

Good luck with your project

Stefan

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Hi,

Made a flight with both FSX and X-Plane and took some notes for AFS2012.

First some things about FSX:

- Ugly shift between weather zones (from overcast to clear happens instantly)

-> Create real cloud clusters, which can also be visible on weather radar

-> Fade clouds not instantly but over a minute or a few minutes

- Hazed ground seems clear again when getting higher (argh!)

- Precipitation on windows not visible from virtual cockpit

-> Raindrops, maybe even snow visible would be nice. Working wipers would be great!

- Icing and condensation on windows should be visible with incorrect airconditiong/anti-icing settings (like in some addons)

- Having to preload textures every time (ie. Real Environment Extreme)

-> More textures should be created procedurally -> More shader usage

- More use of normalmapping/displacementmapping

-> Make forrests and small hills fore example come out of the ground without using polygons

Nice to haves would be:

- Little details like smoke from factories, birds, cars on all highways

-> Near airports with 3d modelled cars, further away just animated textures)

- Real highway tunnels under taxiways (ie. Amsterdam Schiphol - EHAM)

- Head bobbing on wind and turbulence

(though the cursor or virtual hand should follow the cockpit, so that clicking buttons isn't a problem)

Well, then I switched to X-Plane 9. What always strikes me first when flying with X-Plane:

- Lack of scenery on the ground

- Lack of ATC

- Lack of airplanes on the airport

i.e. it feels DEAD and I have the idea like I'm flying in some sort of post apocalyptic world again (like in FS-OLD)

But I really do like some things this sim offers:

+ Aircraft systems are modelled in the sim, not in the addons

+ Lots of failures are possible (thanks to the previous point)

+ Birds

+ Some aircraft (mainly small ones) feel more realistic in their handling than aircraft in FSX

+ Rolling aircraft carriers when trying to land on them in bad weather (ie. the water simulation)

+ Sloped runways (although sometimes they are WAYYYYY too sloped)

Raymond Groenendijk

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I would love to see a career mode, the mode would sorta be like a virtual airline, except u go through as a person and not an airline. You begin as a GFPT pilot beginning in a C152 where u go through all the basic steps and hours to get our basic lisence, you fly and get your PPL then your CPL, after this you can choose if you would like to go into the air force but risk getting cut, you could also do charter flights to increase hours or become an instructor, or if neither is what you like you could be a recreational pilot and work up your hours this way, after this you can become a commercial pilot beginning on an B717 or something small as a first officer and working your way up the ranks to become a captain of the A380.

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