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Topic: ease of use


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I think it's unreasonable to try and anticipate every possible parameter that an addon developer would ever want to use. A better approach would be to allow addon developers to add whatever parameters they choose, and have them included in system state, save games etc. That way even if the core sim knows nothing about INS, it's perfectly possible to build planes with INS.

I actually think the same may apply to the lights thread.

Colin

Thank you for saying this.

I got a little concerned when I saw lists of lighting items in that thread.

Nolan

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I think it's unreasonable to try and anticipate every possible parameter that an addon developer would ever want to use. A better approach would be to allow add-on developers to add whatever parameters they choose, and have them included in system state, save games etc.

This is the core issue here. I too believe it is unreasonable to expect every system to be modelled by every developer, however the core design should allow for all of these systems to be bolted on either in a very rudimentary fashion or with the highest level of fidelity if the developer wishes to do so.

Please, please Aerosoft/Mathijs, do not dumb down the sim to the status of a game irrespective of how unimportant you believe our 10% representation is valued at. Some of us really enjoy setting up an INS for 30 minutes.

Cheers,

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I think it is really important that someone can get flying straight away. Yes there should be all of the support for those that need it (tutorials/ training missions leading to a variety of syllabusus (syllabbi?)eg PPL/CPL/ATPL and the complexity of the experience should be user definable.

The ability to set up my controllers easily is also really important to me (not just joystick but throttle quadrant, rudder pedals and various other items of hardware such as my VRinsight EFIS/MCP/COM panel).

I have lost count of the number of recent sims that I have given up on almost immediately because I couldn't work out how to assign the controllers (Rise of Flight being a case in point although I persevered and eventually figured it out) and I don't want to go back to using the keyboard!

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Since the general commercial success of MFS was partially based on its reach to inexperienced sim pilots by generally keeping things simple you may create a dedicated begginers section in the sim for them . It may take the form of limited aircraft selection (the simple begginer's aircraft) , simplified user menu selections , intro lessons , tutorials, videos (the likes of ones that the Kings did for MFS) .... Generally something for those people who are curious enough about aviation and flying but ignorant enough about it , to get frustrated and intimidated enough in the beginning to quit

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Often when I talk to my friends about Flight Sim, the average response is "that's sad man!". When they actually come round and see it, their impression is somewhat more different. this is because if used properly, Flight Sim can strike a chord with nearly anyone, even my fellow peers who you could never imagine in a different universe sitting in an aircraft cockpit! The beauty of flight sim is that if one makes it so anyone can use it, then imagination can take over, you could be a bush pilot in the heart of a jungle, or landing a chopper in treacherous conditions on an oil rig. Make it so anyone can learn the basics in a basic default aircraft, then go live out their piloting dreams. After a few hours, they would star thinking about doing things more realistically, which then leads on to the desire of addons after a few months, and then perhaps enter the Flight sim community. It's the circle of flight simming!

Of couse, not every consumer would end up flying for a VA with realistic Ops, but the point is the only way to create a new generation of flight simmers is to nuture for all there needs as they develop. I would seriously defy anyone in this forum or any other forum in the Flight Sim world who would start the moment they start flying to fly PMDG's using all functionality to real world standards. It just doesn't work that way! Any Flight Simulator must provide for the simmer when they start and want to learn but still achieve their imagination's desires, and then when they want to work their way through the ranks. Ease of use mustn't dumb anything down, but it must provide for every flight simmer's needs as they learn, develop and enjoy. Think of the airliner with 1000 hours experience 37000 feet above the atlantic, and the VFR pilot flying a touch and go traffic pattern at his/her local airfield, and the fighter pilot landing in IMC on an aircraft carrier. Ease of use encompasses everybody's learning and therefore development leading to enjoyment. Therefore, tutorial based missions, in my opinion, are a very good way to get started off learning the basics: FSX does this well. Then, training and checkrides based on real world procedures, FSX does this poorly, in my opinion. It just doesn't seem fun. Thousands of pages of ground school may not be everybody's cup of tea, so in my opinion, there needs to be an alternative to attract a wider audience. Scenario based missions: brilliant! So much fun! It's just nice to have a purpose added to flying, an incentive. It's easier when flying for a VA, but when you're still finding your feet, it's important interest in the hobby is retained, so a wide variety of missions are vital to commercial success.

To summarise, ease of use is key: If Aerosoft can master it - teaching : think of as Mathijs telling us about how "we help them make their first landing" - if aerosoft can recreate that in the simualtor, then they would have done as well if not better than FSX! I think if every one of us in this forum says what made us learn in Flight Sim, what kept us going and fueled our enjoyment, and what made us get here, at this forum right now then we aerosoft will have a basis on which to go on which can tell them what gets a large "sample" of people to enjoy Flight Sim and learn from it.

My final opinion, then i'll shut up for the rest of this forum:P: As I think Mathijs oulined, we don't always have time for dear old PMDG, so a panel load system like used in current PMDG aircraft being implemented for all aircraft would be especially useful to those who can only fly in short stints, which would apply to allof us once in a while!

Cheers,

Natty

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Talking about ease of use I watched a video yesterday night of the PMDG JS4100 where it featured their Interactive Load Sheet in the Virtual Cockpit. This is what I find an excellent idea that would be nice to have instead of having to use an external application to configure before starting the Sim. Check it out on their site.

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Marketing-wise, it is always easier to sell down than up. Plus, if a sim is good, regarless of how complex systems are, it will be bought by people who won't fly it regurlaly or at all. I wonder how many FSX copies were sold and not used more than once... I would assume it's a chunk of sales. In the end, you might as well make it as real as it gets.

I also believe, but that's just a belief, that quality pays, in a form or another, now or eventually. And how do you assess the quality of a simulation?

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Something relating to cockpit functionality:

The way the rotating knobs are handled in the latest realairsimulations add-ons (it is also an X-plane standard) is much more convinient than the MFS standard . Any thoughts about that ?

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Hello,

well, "ease of use" starts in my opinion with ease of setting up the sim and proper installation of add-ons.

1st: I remember very well how often and how much time I have to spent to set up FS9/FSX right to work with my actual hardware. So it would be very helpful if the sim itself determines what kind of hardware is running and then tunes the settings properly. That shouldn't be so difficult if you maybe work with classes of hardware. Maybe for extreme simmer there should be a fine tuning mode, too. But for me as a passion simmer it's much annoying when I have to spent hours of my very rare spare time configuring for acceptable FPS-settings...

2nd: Proper automatic installation of Add-Ons is also very important if i think about ease of use. there should be no need e.g. to sort sceneries to the right order on your own. This should be done by a kind of administration function built in in the sim that every add-on designer is forced to use.

3rd: The complexity of planes is no matter of ease of use for me. Because I only buy and fly those planes I understand and have time to get used. That means that developers should perhaps make a decission help with some kind of a rating system and if possible offer different versions in complexity or let the user decide when loading a plane how difficult it should be.

4th: Maybe there should be better assitance in preparing and using systems - some kind of virtual co-pilot e.g. As an example: I bought the PIC B-737 but didn't get further than using the instruction flight because all that FMS programming goes far beyond my time I could afford in simming. So it could be a good advice to built in a button with which I could get a pre-programmed FMS depending on the flight plan and route I choose. You mentioned in several postings that one shouldn't expect to operperate a plane on it's own when this is designed to be operated by two professional trained pilots. So there should be some bulit in helping aids for the single simmer...

All in all: ease of use should be one of the most important parts in development and beta-testing!

Regards Michael

PS: I did a lot of software testing in my past times as an editor for several PC magazines ... and ease of use and getting used with a software and its functions was one of the most important parts of my software-tests

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I think it'd be a good thing to let the 'player' decide on his/her level of knowledge and let the simulator react to that. I personally would love to find a default aircraft with full functionality (TCAS, FMS, the whole ram-bam), but on the other hand someone new to flying might want a plane similar to the ones Microsoft put into FS with just the basic things you need to fly.

When using FS9 I love the PSS 777, nearly everything the real plane has, I have in my sim too. Same goes for the PMDG 737, and 747 in FSX.

I would want things to be as realistic as possible, even though that might cost some "ease of use". My hobby isn't simply about picking a plane, loading the scenery and start flying. I want to learn things, figure out how stuff works and I don't mind if it would take me some time to get into the air because I have to fill in my FMC or flight plan or whatsoever. My fun starts the moment I loaded my plane and begin getting it ready for departure.

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So it would be very helpful if the sim itself determines what kind of hardware is running and then tunes the settings properly.

FSX already does that: At the very first launch it runs a couple of benchmarks, and puts your system into one of several 'performance bins' accordingly. Works surprisingly well. But what's the very first thing everybody does right after that very first launch? Exactly, go into the advanced (read expert fine tuning mode) options, and pull every slider to the right. No wonder FSX is running so freaking slowly for so many folks. ;)

This should be done by a kind of administration function built in in the sim that every add-on designer is forced to use.

How would an add-on designer know which combination of other add-ons (some of them yet to be released) a user might have? Of course, in most situations, any user will only have one add-on covering a given region and a given type of scenery (i.e. who would install two versions of the same airport?). But what if not (e.g. if two road add-ons overlap)? How do you decide which one takes precedence?

Judith

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I must say that, since I fly simple single-engine props, I like for everything to be functional. I hate switches you can't flip and buttons you can't press, like the default aircraft in FSX have. Even if it's totally useless in a simulator, I still want it to work. For example, I want to be able to turn on cabin heat and cabin air. Obviously, the temperature in the sim doesn't affect you, but I still want these features. I think things like that add to immersion. I like to be able to pull down visors, open windows, etc. That's one of the things that makes you feel as if you're really there. I understand that if you're flying a 747 by yourself it may be overwhelming, but please pay attention to the little details.

Oh, BTW, please make the "OFF, ON, ALT, TEST" switch on the transponder functional. That drives me insane that it isn't functional in the default FSX aircraft.

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Here are some of my ideas on how to teach beginners. One thing I miss from FS2004 is videos, some of which were done in real aircraft. I was disappointed by the lack of them in FSX. I think some videos taken in real aircraft would add interest to the sim. I love to watch videos taken in real aircraft (Videos taken in flight sim are kind of boring to me because I can fly in FSX any time, but I don't get to fly in real life very often). I'm a very visual person; I can learn something much more easily if I can see it. I think this would be an excellent way to teach beginners. You could make tutorials with videos at the beginning. For example, if you had a tutorial on how to land, you could have a video at the beginning showing how to do it; then the student could try it. These videos could be taken in the sim. I thought the tutorials in FSX were a pretty good idea. I flew a few of them to check them out. But I'm not exactly sure how effective they are at teaching a beginner, because I was a beginner about 5 or 6 years ago. But it seemed as if they would be helpful to a beginner. They seemed simple, yet informative. Most beginners would probably be overwhelmed by the FS2004 style flying lessons. I went through them from the first lesson to the Private Pilot checkride, and I think a beginner would give up pretty quickly (I already had some basic skills by the time I flew them).

I think we all would enjoy some real life videos. Maybe you could make videos about different types of flying and put them into the sim. Maybe a video about bush flying, a video about airliners, etc.

Sorry for the long, rambling post.;)

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  • Aerosoft

I value the freedom to basically do what I like in FS, to fly a B747 from Schiphol to St Maartin using as close to real procedures and systems as possible or explore Tongass fjords in a Beaver Amphibian with the sectional on my lap. I think that in a new simulator preserving that freedom is important, I don't want to have to fly around in an ultralight for hours before I can get into a Cessna.

Think you got a very good point there. No linear structure as in many games.

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  • Aerosoft
1st: I remember very well how often and how much time I have to spent to set up FS9/FSX right to work with my actual hardware. So it would be very helpful if the sim itself determines what kind of hardware is running and then tunes the settings properly. That shouldn't be so difficult if you maybe work with classes of hardware. Maybe for extreme simmer there should be a fine tuning mode, too. But for me as a passion simmer it's much annoying when I have to spent hours of my very rare spare time configuring for acceptable FPS-settings...

Well to be honest, from a person who manages our online customer department and who got FSX in the startup folder, there are very few tweaks in cfg files that make any sense. We have seen it so often, a customer who spend weeks tweaking settings in cfg files and still gets problems. We wiped those files, let FSX make fresh ones and problems are solved.

2nd: Proper automatic installation of Add-Ons is also very important if i think about ease of use. there should be no need e.g. to sort sceneries to the right order on your own. This should be done by a kind of administration function built in in the sim that every add-on designer is forced to use.

We will for sure offer that. it will also be a lot easier. Each add-on will only use on folder.

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