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A new simulator (September/ October issue)


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Not discussing it here , is something that i definately did not suggest . Baring in mind however the input of the past 5 days , putting the issue elsewere as well , is what i suggested . Also our input here does not take the form of discussion , such as in the case of discussing the features of the new simulator , is more of a polling entry . I told a few people about the aircraft selection option you have for the upcoming sim and still they did not put anything...and i know they are just lazy of going through a reg. process and track down the history of the whole simulator discussion... it is that simple.

I disagree, why does one need to put the issues elswhere ? Its an Aerosoft project and every flightsimmer will know about this site (forum) by now anyway.

It's also about getting feedback from the simmers and what they want in a flightsim. its FANTASTIC

I am greatfull that for many years Microsoft produced there flightsim for us but did they even once consult us flightsimmers ???

I think this is a great way to go and I wish Aerosoft the very best

Cheers, Rick

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I disagree, why does one need to put the issues elswhere ? Its an Aerosoft project and every flightsimmer will know about this site (forum) by now anyway.

It's also about getting feedback from the simmers and what they want in a flightsim. its FANTASTIC

I am greatfull that for many years Microsoft produced there flightsim for us but did they even once consult us flightsimmers ???

I think this is a great way to go and I wish Aerosoft the very best

Cheers, Rick

You seem that you have not understood precisely what i suggested , and even though it is clear and evident , here is the last thing i will write about this issue . All matters discussed with regards to the features , funtionality , looks etc of the upcoming sim basically belong to the forums where elaboration and feedback takes place ... Now we are presented with the opportunity to select aircraft . A new forum has been created just for this were entries do not take much discussion . You just enter prefered aircraft. Its more of a polling entry . Have a look at the replies thus far and tell me that this is the amount to which one can be based to create a new simulator that will replace MFS ? When it comes to considering aircraft you need a much greater input to express a collective preference .I saw a lack of input for this particular subject , and all i suggested ,is to seek way for it to be more public..... You wonna make the poll in avsim? you wonna make it in flightsim? Both ? Having both announcing that aerosoft is looking for input for aircraft for its upcoming sim with a link at aerosoft? Thats up to aerosoft to decide ...all i did was to suggest more input methods for something that evidently has so little

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Aerosoft surely already know excatly which planes will be in new sim. I dont think that they are lost in space..

Probably they just want confirmation for their "plane plan" from this Aerosoft forum community.

They dont need aproval from all around the world forums.

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  • Airliner: A320 or B737 series.
  • Commuter: ATR 42-500/72-500 or Bombardier Dash 8 Q300/400
  • Small commuter: I like the idea of a better VC on the Twin Otter! Could also consider the B1900D or Metro II/III
  • Turbo Twin Engine: If by "Turbo" you mean Turbine, then can't go wrong with a B200 King Air. If you mean a "Turbocharged" piston, then a Piper Chieftain would be a good choice.
  • Turbo Single engine: Turbine - PC-12 or Caravan / Piston - Cessna 400 (old Columbia Line).
  • VLJ (Very Light Jets): Embraer Phenom 100
  • Single Trainer/ GA: Carenado C-152/C-172 of course but a Diamond DA-20/40 would also be nice!
  • Historical: Douglas DC-6B or Lockheed Constellation.
  • Helicopter: A Huey sound fine. Also like the more popular Bell 206 or Eurocopter AS-350.
  • Glider: No idea
  • Ultralight: Something by Jabiru, Flight Design or Zenair.
  • Bush. I would seriously like to see a Turbine Otter! Would be a nice addition to you DeHavilland Line (Beaver and Twin Otter).
  • Fighter. F-16 is great. Eurofighter or F-35 could also prove popular.

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Quick spin off from the other topic. One of the things I am working on this week is content for the new sim and specifically the aircraft we need to include. Now we want to compete directly with FSX so from the first edition we need to have a nice selection of aircraft/chopper etc in the product. I also want all of them to be better then the default aircraft of FSX (that's not hard). I like your input on what's needed and some suggestions on what I am missing. I also like to hear about possible partners. But take care, if you like a 747 in there don't say we should talk to PMDG, because that's a typical high end add-on and not a 'default aircraft'

  • Airliner. We need at least one and the Airbus A321 we are doing would be pretty perfect. Loads of licensing issues there.
  • Commuter. No real ideas on that one now.
  • Small commuter. The Twin Otter we done could be a good base but would need some work on the VC.
  • Turbo Twin Engine. We need at least one fast modern one there.
  • Turbo Single engine. I love those fast turbo aircraft.
  • VLJ (Very Light Jets). By far the most innovative area of aviation, we got to include it.
  • Single Trainer/ GA. One of those Cessna's that Carenado does would be great here, would it not?
  • Historical. Catalina, without a doubt, we got it, it is great. I also would like something like a Sopwith Camel.
  • Helicopter. Huey, we are working on it, it will be pretty good and it's the helicopter that does everything
  • Glider. Easy one, something like our Discus.
  • Ultralight. I really want something modern there as it is one of the most exiting parts of aviation these days.
  • Bush. I seriously like the Bush Hawk XP and it is fully ready for a new sim.
  • Fighter. Though I a pretty sure we'll not do any shooting in the new sim, it needs a serious fighter and we got the F-16 that's still pretty solid!

Any suggestions are welcome. Even more so if they come with reference to current products for FSX. Again keep in mind that though we might find it easy to include the Catalina because we own all rights to that, buying a very serious other aircraft is not a good idea. It is still intended to be an open platform so everybody can add aircraft.

For the glider, how about something vintage, like the Libelle 201B or Phoebus B-1? Both of these were among the first glass ships, and are both fun to fly.

Airliner: I really like the Super Connie

Fighter: RF-8G Crusader from USN Squadron VFP-62

Ultralight: The new two-seater Cessna Lightspeed (or something like that)?

Historical: GEEBEE racer

binky9

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Greetings to the forum. The task of selecting the default aircraft list is going to be a tough one

and there is absolutely no chance of pleasing everybody. Points to consider, MFS was an

American product and almost all default planes were American. Aerosoft is a European

company. Most of Europe has been through two terrible wars so I think it is important not to

forgett this and include a token tribute to some of the fantastic planes that took part. When

thinking historical, do two (Catalina makes sense) but being British and biased to the RAF I feel

the Avro Lancaster BMk 1, 2 or 3 must absolutely be included. When thinking about a modern

fighter, by all means include your F16, its great and will appeal to our US friends, but why not

do two modern fighters and do a nice Tornado GR4, this has been the workhorse for the RAF

Luftwaffe and Italian airforces since 1979 and would go down well with our European friends

and again must absolutely be included. I personaly would love you all forever if you did a Tonka

GR4 in grey 617 Sqn markings with AJ-G tail letters (another small tribute) Helicopters, the Sea

King is a no brainer, every airforce and navy has them (US design but built by Westland UK) and

would compliment your Huey quite nicely, maybe do a third chopper and do a modern French Dauphine.

If you include some of the excellent add ons you already have it will of course save a lot of work but

it will adversly affect your add on sales. It's going to be difficult but a new simmulator has to have

the right balance with international appeal to do well in a global market. Do two commuters, ATR 42/72

(French) Dash 8 (Canadian) Four airliners, Boeing 777 and 747/800 (US) and two Airbus'es (Euro)

Three historical fighters, Spitfire (GB) ME109 (German) Mustang P51 (US) Two transports, C130

(US but used throuout Europe) and C17 (US) Many, many choices but, again, I think the Tornado

Lancaster and Sea King are complete no brainers. Oh and a least one VTOL, how about a nice Harrier

(now there's a challenge) Maybe two semi historical airliners, B707 (US) and Vickers VC10 (UK)

Executive jet, Dassault 900 (French) WW1 Camel, Spad, Fockker ? And an afterthought to modern

fighters, do four and include an F1 or F4 Phantom and the Typhoon Eurofighter ?

Finaly when deciding on your list of planes to be included, think about access to the real plane for your

photographic research and hopefully we will get far more photoreal texture and cockpits !

Good luck with the project and thank you for inviting the simm community to take part and share our

views and ideas, huge round of applause to Aerosoft for this one.

Regards, busterbvi.

"Thy shalt maintain thyne airspeed lest the ground rise up and smite thee"

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Airliner - These are the main draw for a lot of customers, so it seems to me you should have 2. If licensing is an issue, make them both Airbusses: A321 and A380 would be cool (a little one and a big one! The A380 would appeal to a lot of people, it seems to me)

Commuter - Turboprop would be a good idea to round out the mix. I personally recommend the Dash 8 Q200 for a number of reasons. I have a friend who flew both Q200s and Q400s, and he said Q200s were a blast to fly compared to their larger brothers. It's not all glass, so it would round out the mix. I also have airline-provided cockpit diagrams and flight manual for Q200 if you're interested!

Small Commuter - Twotter sounds great :) I'm sick of seeing the king air personally.

Turbo Twin Engine - Not sure if you mean turboprop or turbocharged. I'm assuming turbocharged, since there are already quite a few turbine aicraft on the list. Diamond Twin Star for this one! Fast, modern, and sexy.

Turbo Single Engine - Cessna 206 (w/ amphib and ski versions!) Updated Carenado version would be excellent. Great all around aircraft for GA fun.

VLJ - Diamond Jet. Can negotiate licensing for the Turbo Twin and the VLJ at the same time, plus its a dang cool airplane.

Single Trainer - Piper Cub! Who doesn't love the Cub? This plane embodies the magic of flight (to me, anyway)

Historical - I vote for Catalina too. IMHO, if you have a Catalina, there's no need for a DC-3. They're both beautiful, well-known, and classic 1930s aircraft. I disagree with the Camel idea though; they're cool to look at but slow as all hell. I think a bigger draw would be a WWII warbird: I vote Corsair or Spitfire.

Helicopter - Huey is perfect. I would include two choppers though; Microsoft clearly thought this was a good idea too, seeing as they added the R22 and EH101 in FSX. I personally vote for something other than R22 to further differentiate the product from Microsoft's. Bell 47 (relive all those MASH episodes)? Schweizer S300?

Glider - I know nothing.

Ultralight - I love the trike in FSX. Or maybe go crazy and make a powered parachute ;) No, seriously.

Bush - Bush Hawk works for me!

Fighter - F-16 would be good. I also like the previous idea of the Eurofighter, but if the F-16's already been made then that's less work...

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Just some more general thoughts about choosing default aircraft:

Why not taking the types of different planes from the beginners point of view up to super professionals so the simmer could increase its skills step by step. E.g. have a look how Lufthansa Flying School or German Luftwaffe, US Airforce etc. does training new pilots from a PPL-beginner to the captains chair. Then you should automatically get 1st the most actual / popular / best used types and 2nd you could build up a more realistic training course as part of the sim?!

Besides this so to say "training aid" default aircraft and in addition to the aircraft mentioned so far it would be nice for me to see a Tiger Moth, BO-105 or an A-10 in a default set, because they had some fame in aircraft history and should not be too complicated for a more simplified attempt as a default aircraft.

Maybe it could be a good attempt to build two or more box-sets of your new sim - but not like Microsoft with FSX did, but more to adress the skills of the users and interest of the simmer community?!

Additional remark: And please keep in mind, even if you don't want to make default aircraft too complex, that even non professional simmers like me like to have aircraft cockpits that look like the real ones instead of those "simplified" cockpit designs Microsoft gave its FSX default aircraft - better give beginners the opportunities to select a more simple aircraft behaviour, system complexity or even make this by default simple and leave more complex versions to the add-on business etc. than reducing the original look&feel to something like a sample of gauges ...

Regards Michael

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Please do make the default aircraft actual aircraft. I never could figure out what feel Microsoft was trying to achieve with their default Cessna 172 in FSX. The steam gauge version was painted like a 60's or 70's model 172, but the cockpit looked like the cockpit of a more modern 172S. The G1000 version was painted more accurately. But, the G1000 version's cockpit looked like the cockpit of an older 172S retrofitted with a G1000. In other words, it looked as if Microsoft had taken all the versions of the 172 and averaged them into something unrealistic. Also, one thing that always bothered me was the lack of a GPS in the VC's of the default aircraft. If the default 172 is intended to be a 172S, it should have a GPS mounted in the panel.

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This is harder than is seems, because most of the good aircraft are already available as payware.

  • Airliner - Boeing 777-300ER with a British Airways livery.
  • Commuter - ATR 72-500 or DHC-7
  • Small commuter - Embraer 120 Brasilia or BAe-146
  • Turbo Twin Engine - We need a REALLY good King Air C90. Medivac version?
  • Turbo Single engine - Pilatus PC-12, Socato TBM or Piper Meridian.
  • VLJ (Very Light Jets) - Adam A700 or Eclipse 500
  • Single Trainer/ GA - Cessna 182T Turbo. The current default Cessna has no power at altitudes above 5000'.
  • Historical - Simple, a PT-17 Stearman.
  • Helicopter - Bell 412 or a Eurocopter EC-145 with a medivac version.
  • Glider - The Discus sounds good.
  • Ultralight - Notax Ultralight 92. It would also give you an amphibian in the hangar.
  • Bush - Piper Supercub or Turbo Otter. Maybe a Gippsland GA8.
  • Fighter - Sukhoi SU-37 in airshow colors.

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I reckon that default Aircraft must appeal to everyone that's going to be using the flight simulator. People who aren't die-hard full on Simmers, i.e. people who are going to be using default aircraft, wouldn't need and wouldn't want complicated system integration. This is obvious- even FSX knew that. The bit where FSX falls short is that yes, default aircraft are not going to be a fully realistic simulations, but that's no excuse to fall behind on graphics and sound. Just because the pilots who are going to be flying them aren't going to be the best in the world, but you don't need to be a good pilot to recognize poor textures, bad resolutions, and synthetic sounds. MAKE THEM LOOK AND FEEL LIKE THE REAL THING, WITHOUT GOING INTO DETAIL! With Default aircraft it's still nice to have them look good, with a virtual cockpit that shows overhead switches in a realistic way which looks real- even if you aren't going to model them. Beginning Flight Simmers will immediately look at the graphics and sound quality- it's all they'll be able to evaluate, they don't care it doesn't have a fully interegrated IRS with a functioning FMC. So get the Aircraft looking and feeling like the real thing. FSX, in my opinion, really missed out with the graphics in Virtual Cockpits for default aircraft.

As for Aircraft, here's my "dream team"

  • Airliner: Airbus A319 or Airbus A320; Airbus A380; Boeing 737-800; Boeing 747-400, -800; Boeing 757-200; Boeing 777-200;
  • VLJ (Very Light Jets). Learjet
  • Single Trainer/ GA. Mooney Bravo; Cessna 172 (for the 500th time!)
  • Historical. Concorde
  • Fighter. Eurofighter Typhoon; Lockheed/Martin F22 Raptor

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I'll only vote for the aircraft types that I am interested in...

# Airliner: A320/321

# Commuter: The iconic Fokker F27/F50

# Small commuter: Metroliner

# Turbo Twin Engine: B200 King Air

# Single Trainer/ GA: Carenado C-152/C-172

# Historical: Douglas DC-6B

# Helicopter: Small Bell 47; Larger, A Bell 206

# Bush. a Beaver

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