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Nice X - Request Patch, Suggestion or Refund

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Hello,

if shimmering still there, it must be because of the setup of the grafic card. The textures have all mips. The framerate should be better also around 2-3 F/s. Not more... Then there is the possibility with somewhat slower PCs still of decreasing the scenery density and autogen density. Please that examines again! Thanks a lot... B)

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Ok

It's the only scenery with this problem for me. Why ?

My sytem is not the cause (Q9550 o/c to 3.4 GHz, nVidia GTX 260+, 4 go Ram)

The settings for ma video card are exactly the settings recommanded by Nick here : http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=29430&KW=nHancer and here :

http://www.highflightsimulations.com/recommended.html

I tried it without nHancer and I've the same thing

I use others addons like REX2 or UTX but I don't think if they can cause the problem ...

Sorry for my remarks but ....

I installed NiceX v1.00 and the 1.02 patch only. It's correct ?

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I made a try quickly:

I re-mipped all bmp textures and it's much better now. No more shimmering

But the fps drop to 14-15

Some bmp texture cause shimmering even after 1.02. But I don't know what textures exactly (Signs ? Markings ? ...)

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Peter,

After a bit more testing, flying in from a distance the building shimmer is way better but the ground textures (runways, taxiways, grass) are distorting badly. The distortion goes away within the airport perimeter. The best setting for Nice in nHancer is Supersampling x4 however the framerates drop to around 10-12 with default aircraft, which is unacceptable. I normally use Combined 8xSQ which is perfect for all my other scenery with frames in the high 20's.

I remember Aerosoft's Mega Airport Frankfurt for fs9 had the same issue which was fixed when the developer made a set of low resolution ground textures. Would this help for Nice?

Once again the buildings are now great for me at any distance so thanks for that.

Regards, Jon

Intel Core2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz

Nvidia GeForce 8800GTS 512

4Gb Ram

REX2

Ultimate TerrainX Europe

MonacoX

nHancer 2.5.6

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I finally got around to installing the patch. The good news is that most of the building shimmering is gone, however the ground tiles shimmer like mad. I converted all the LFMN_01.bpm to LFMN_31.bmp's, along with all the corresponding light maps to DXT1 textures with mipmaps. This fixed the gound shimmering for the most part.

The bad new's is that performance is very poor. As a test I tried the airport with zero traffic, fair weather, and the RealAir SF260, with my machine, E8400 running at 3.85 ghz, I only get around 20 - 23 FPS. I can only imagine adding a complex a/c, some traffic and more demanding weather, the airport will be unusable.

After weeks of testing by removing different bgl's, the performance hit isn't coming from the size of the ground textures, but it's comming from the buildings that reside within the FLMN_Library.bgl. If I remove the buildings and leave the ground textures, FPS returns to the 50's to 60's. That leaves me to believe that the poly count in the buildings/terminals is way to high, or there is a flaw in the design. There is no reason a small airport like this should perform so poorly, especially when you can get 25 to 30 FPS flying into FlyTampa's Hong Kong that is an extremely dense scenery area.

Another bad thing about Nice X is that even when you are away from the airport heading toward Monaco or heading the other way and the airport is not in view, there is still a major performance hit. Most sceneries dont do that. Usually when you pan your view away from a scenery the FPS goes up because the computer is not trying to render the scenery. However at this airport the FPS stay low until you get about 15 miles away. Something is wrong if the airport is still dragging performance even when viewing other directions from the airport.

I haven't even check to see if the AI shadows work or the rain effects work, plus the fact that you have to buy AES to get the jetways to move. Too much wrong and missing for my taste.

Tulma,

I'm sorry to see you still having trouble with the scenery. Would you recommend the FranceVFR Nice airport? I would consider giving it a try. Perhaps you could merge the two products to get a nice looking Nice that performs.

I know that Aerosoft and Peter have made an attempt to fix this airport by releasing two patches, however this has got to be the worst addon airport I have ever purchased. I know that Aerosoft want's to put it off as a problem with the users computer, which a lot of times is the cause of problems, but in my case that is not the problem. Like I have mentioned many times, I can fly to any of my other addon airports by other developers and I do not experience problems like I have with this airport.

I'm glad that this airport was only a few dollars so I don't feel bad about deleting it, but going forward, I think I am done with Aerosoft products. I have a few other Aerosoft addons and they seem to perform fairly well, but after this experience I have learned my lesson to stay away from Aerosoft products, especially with a no refund policy.

I had planned on buying Monaco X and the upcomming Innsbruck X, but I am too scared to spend my money and then have the disappointment that I have experienced with this airport. Perhaps if Aerosoft had a policy like Flight1 has with a 30 day refund policy, or what FSDreamteam and a few others do by having the product so you can test it in a trail period, I would consider purchasing more.

If anyone here comes up with some tweaks or fixes, please let me know so that I can try this airport again. For now the recycle bin is where it will go.

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Tulma,

I'm sorry to see you still having trouble with the scenery. Would you recommend the FranceVFR Nice airport? I would consider giving it a try. Perhaps you could merge the two products to get a nice looking Nice that performs.

The Riviera addon (with Nice airport) from FranceVFR, is made for fs9 and converted to FSX. But a FranceVFR developper said to me that FranceVFR is going to prepare a new Nice Airport for FSX around the end of this year. I must verify this information :)

I agree with your opinion about NiceX. It's very disappointing after two patchs :(

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Hello,

I cannot understand it unfortunately.

Frames of 20 F/s are very good for a in such a way detailed airport.

The floor spaces see with Mipmaps very blurred out, therefore they have also no mips.

I consider that easy shimmering the ground textures normal, it is not worse than with other scenes. On our test computers we do not see problems with the framerate and shimmering!

I think that your system are not optimally adjusted. I can give there in addition, no hints!

An important attitude is to be limited in any case the maximum Framerate, because thereby did not determine other things from the outset be represented correctly can. Frames of over 60 F/s show that probably the maximum Framerate stands here on infinite - that is wrong! In addition please I you, if your computers do not work optimally, then places please the autogenous- and scene-density down. OK? B)

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Hello Folks,

20 FPS is not bad at all, just think what the frame rate of an LCD TV is!

Read about frame rates on TV here.

So folks you live with 24 for a film and 25 for TV so why not for a game!

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20 fps on a simulator is not the same thing than 20 fps on a TV :) .

Now, on NiceX with UT2 (Commercial traffic to 70%), I've 10-12 fps :wacko:

My system is optimally adjusted. I'm sure a bout that for the most of the addons installed (they work fine). More, no other programs work at the same time. I stop all not necessary services and tasks

Sincerely,your addon is very beautifull. But there are too much problems with fps and shimmering.

I can try NiceX again. But perhaps can you tell us what driver and settings you use on your test computers with nvidia card ? Can give us some advises ?

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I have to agree with Tulma. 20 FPS without traffic is no very good and like Tulma said you add in a little traffic and get frames into 10 - 15 FPS.

I can see 10 to 15 FPS in an area like New York City where there is lots of buildings, big airport with lots of traffic, but FPS this low in an area with not a whole lot of buildings in the back ground is not right.

Also, your telling us 20 FPS is not bad in an airport this detailed. I have these airports below, amoung others that are very detailed. more so than Nice X and I get very high frames, even with AI. Nice X is not that detailed. The Las Vegas scenery even has the motorized passenger monorail.

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/products_klas.html

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/products_zurichx.html

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/products_geneva.html

The problem with FPS is not with the ground textures or the textures in general. The performance problem lies within the buildings or terminals, but since they are compiled into one bgl I can't seperate them to see which one/one's are causing the problem.

A lot of developers mistakenly believe that, just taking a Gmax file and compiling it with the FSX SDK exporter would auto-magically result in a FSX native scenery that would perform at its best in FSX.

On a side note, my computer is set and an optimized. Like I mentioned before I used a professional outside service to set up my computer and FSX. I would love for them to chime in here and dispute Aerosofts claim that my computer is not set up correctly.

Anyway, thanks for the efforts guys, but I am done buying here.

Maybe I will look into getting Innsbruck, but it will be after very careful consideration and input from other users and hopefully it will come with mipped textures already.

Regards

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Peter,

You are telling me that my computer is not optimally adjusted. I have some very detailed scenery addons installed, Earth Simulations Alderny, FSDT Zurich & JFK and many ORBX airports, Hervey Bay, Melbourne, Avalon to name only a few. There is absolutely NO shimmering at any distances at any of those airports. My sliders are set very high and I have good framerates in the mid to high 20's. I cannot understand you blaming my graphics card or FSX setup.

I don't believe the shimmering ground textures are acceptable to enjoy this scenery. I am resigned to write off the cost and be a bit wary before my next purchase of an Aerosoft airport.

Mathijs, Shaun, I hope a plan can be put in place to prevent this issue arising in the future.

Regards, Jon.

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I agree Jon. Using the arugment that are computers aren't optimized is a bad execuse in this case. Sure, sometimes that will be the case, but like you and I, and some others, have problems no where else, then clearly its not our computers Like you I also have other highly detailed airports that do not cause the shimmer and low FPS problems that this one causes. Even Peter says he only gets FPS in the 16's to low 20's here. That is not acceptable, when I can use other airports that are far more complex and even have animations and animated objects and get better performance.

I think Aerosoft should just admit that they had a bad release and not blame our computers or our setups. Anyone who has this scenery and is seeing nothing out of the ordinary must have a bad setup to begin with, because when you compare this scenery to others it make it seem that much worse.

Like you, I am probably done buying here as well. I may consider Innsbruck, but other than that I am done. Good thing for me that I am not in need of a lot of European or German sceneries or I would be out of luck if this was my only choice.

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Well I'm setting up my computer from scratch with the help of Mickael from FS-GS... So we'll see if the problem still occurs...

But it won't be ready until next week...

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Well guys. We purchased your addon and we would like to use it properly :huh:

It would be good for you as for us to solve these problems (shimmering and FPS). Maybe it's due to our settings like you think.

Why not, but perhaps we can solved the problems with you if you accept to help us.

The hardware is not the cause (Core2Duo or Core2Quad, 2 or 4 Go RAM, nVidia card 8000, 9000 and GTX series ...)

Then first question : With a Nvidia video card, what settings can cause the shimmering problems in FSX ? Or what settings can remove it ?

We wait for a real technical support now ;)

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Hello Folks

We were told by the guys who do the German Airports series that if you use the latest nHancer with Nvidia it then helps stop the shimmering.

As to your question Tulma have you posed this question to Nvidia themselves as to what there card settings should be and why does it have issues where ATI doesn't.

To be honest folks I know for a fact that my next card when I upgrade will almost certainly be an ATI card.

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I agree as well.. I wont be buying any more aerosoft products.. The excuse that its Nvidias fault is to be kind "utterly feeble". If your in the position again where you can't make a product that runs properly on nvidia cards then heres an idea , dont release it until you can.. Oddly every other developer seems to manage this and I would say its quite a major thing to get right before you take a product out of beta and sell it.. Latest version of nhancer (which updates itself anyway) makes no diference.. Why on earth should it anyway , the latest two versions of nhancer have only been updates fo minor bug fixes within the program itself anyway..

What on earth have fps on a tv image that you watch and dont input too have to do with the fps for a game.. (absolutely nothing, a tv image is a prerendered image which cant be effected by bottlenecks or sudden demands, 25fps is useless; if something causes a demand such as AI or a scenery loading it will drop to below 10fps)

However the most important thing in FSX is frame rate stability and whats highly noticeable is flying from a 40-50fps region with no probs whatsoever and suddenly hitting a 20fps airport such as Nice.. One expects a drop when you hit major airports but somethings wrong when I get less drop at Kai Tak or Orlando or several other larger and in some cases more detailed airports with more traffic.. I even have to turn shadows off in Nice to get the AI so I would expect a rise not a drop..

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I agree as well.. I wont be buying any more aerosoft products.. The excuse that its Nvidias fault is to be kind "utterly feeble". If your in the position again where you can't make a product that runs properly on nvidia cards then heres an idea , dont release it until you can.. Oddly every other developer seems to manage this and I would say its quite a major thing to get right before you take a product out of beta and sell it.. Latest version of nhancer (which updates itself anyway) makes no diference.. Why on earth should it anyway , the latest two versions of nhancer have only been updates fo minor bug fixes within the program itself anyway..

What on earth have fps on a tv image that you watch and dont input too have to do with the fps for a game.. (absolutely nothing, a tv image is a prerendered image which cant be effected by bottlenecks or sudden demands, 25fps is useless; if something causes a demand such as AI or a scenery loading it will drop to below 10fps)

However the most important thing in FSX is frame rate stability and whats highly noticeable is flying from a 40-50fps region with no probs whatsoever and suddenly hitting a 20fps airport such as Nice.. One expects a drop when you hit major airports but somethings wrong when I get less drop at Kai Tak or Orlando or several other larger and in some cases more detailed airports with more traffic.. I even have to turn shadows off in Nice to get the AI so I would expect a rise not a drop..

Well said ightenhill. I am surely not going to change my video card to an ATI to get one scenery to work. I don't think I have ever heard a scenery developer suggest such a thing to mask a poor design. Comments like that reinforce my feeling to not purchase more Aerosodft scenery or at the least wait a long time after release and check the forums frequently to see if there are problems. I think this was the first scenery I ever bought the day it was released.

It sure is funny how I own German Aiports 2 with Hannover,which looks to be a much bigger airport than Nice, gives me 25 to 35 FPS and with mips gives me no shimmers.

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... Comments like that reinforce my feeling to not purchase more Aerosodft scenery or at the least wait a long time after release and check the forums frequently to see if there are problems. I think this was the first scenery I ever bought the day it was released.

It sure is funny how I own German Aiports 2 with Hannover,which looks to be a much bigger airport than Nice, gives me 25 to 35 FPS and with mips gives me no shimmers.

I think, you must distinguish between e.g. Hannover, Köln, Hamburg, Berlin, Frankfurt - made by the GAP-team

and e.g. Nice, Monastir, Lübeck - made by aerosoft-inhouse.

Thanks a lot for your persistance in this case.

Let's hope, it will have changed something ... :rolleyes:

Remark

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Hello Folks,

I can sympathise with the way you feel about shimmering and I dont mean to upset people, I too have this issue with Nvidia.

But I kind of wonder why Nvidia cards cant handle the textures the way that ATI cards can.

I believe it was mentioned earlier in the thread that the choice was because of clearer sharper graphics produced by the chosen textures.

Also the argument about a lot of developers can get there sceneries to work fine with Nvidia cards is fine, but theres also the other foot so

to speak, why cant Nvidia get there cards to work with these textures, thats not a bitch but a fact isn't it.

Here's a question though and does anyone know the answer, why is it that Nvidia cards cannot handle these textures without causing them to shimmer.

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I agree as well.. I wont be buying any more aerosoft products.. The excuse that its Nvidias fault is to be kind "utterly feeble". If your in the position again where you can't make a product that runs properly on nvidia cards then heres an idea , dont release it until you can..

Well I've been using ATI for a while, and everyone accepted that it can't handle clouds..... "Don't use ATI, cos the frame rates drop...." is a reply you can read on almost every forum. Now it is NVIDIA that seems to have difficulties handling textures and all of a sudden it is anyones fault BUT NVIDIA.....

The other point I want to make is the fact that it annoyed me the way you talk about aerosoft on other forums. Not the critisism, but the fact that customer service isn't up to par, because it is. Shaun, Peter and the others involved always reply, never dug for responsabilities and do try to help. Something you can't say of every developer....

Jeroen

*edit* Fora---->forums..... :)

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Hello Folks,

I just tried to find answers to my own question.

I Googled, nvidia shimmering textures and was amazed at what I found and what I'm reading.

There's reasons for the causes everywhere and suggestions everywhere.

Currently checking this one out here.

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........The other point I want to make is the fact that it annoyed me the way you talk about aerosoft on other fora. Not the critisism, but the fact that customer service isn't up to par, because it is. Shaun, Peter and the others involved always reply, never dug for responsabilities and do try to help. Something you can't say of every developer....

Jeroen

Hello,

this is also a thing which annoyed me very much.

I also read thoses messages in other forums and that is really a bad manner. If people have problems with one Aerosoft-scenery than don't spread those news all over. This is a bad bad habit.

I'm a proud cusomer of Aerosoft since many many years and I own many many products of them. And everytime I have the feeling, that theses guys are doing as much as they can to help people out with their problems.

Reading these messages here, one can have the feeling that this scenery is bad and that it don't work. And one can have the feeling, that nearly everyone has the same problems. But that is not true. For me, it works flawlessly and it is a big improvement over the elder VFRFrance scenery, which has by the way only FSX-standard-groundtextures. Maybe it's coz of that I use an older NVIDIA which leads me again to the opinion that a newer card is absolute unecessary for FSX.

So please came down a bit with your critics an let the designer do his work.

(This is my very own opinion and I'm in no way related to Aerosoft.)

Bernhard

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Here's a question though and does anyone know the answer, why is it that Nvidia cards cannot handle these textures without causing them to shimmer.

Heres an answer..

I dont care.. Your the developer, Im the paying customer .. Work it out and fix it before taking money, or in future put a disclaimer on your products saying "DOES NOT WORK WITH NVIDIA CARDS PROPERLY BECAUSE WE DONT KNOW HOW TO DO IT"

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Heres an answer..

I dont care.. Your the developer, Im the paying customer .. Work it out and fix it before taking money, or in future put a disclaimer on your products saying "DOES NOT WORK WITH NVIDIA CARDS PROPERLY BECAUSE WE DONT KNOW HOW TO DO IT"

GUYS! Calm down a bit! I'm also affected with the shimmering and I think it is really a problem there, but give the dev guys the chance to understand the problem and find a solution, maybe even for future developing. Peter got 2 patsches out in the meantime, so no one can say Aerosoft ignores their customers. I think they are discussing the probs internally and will find solutions. I will also buy upcoming addons in the future. Why? Because all 799 addons from Aerosoft before are all well designed and supported by these guys. Here is always a direct link to the devs and I will always get immediate reply to every silly question. And by the way, after the second patch NO ONE can say that Nice X isn't playable! Maybe you get 5 FPS more on an other airport, but I think 15 - 20 fps is more than playable. And also the shimmering is fixed to 80% I think. I got A LOT sceneries from other devs which aren't nearly so good as Nice an nobody cried for them over 5 different forums.

Maybe the testing of future releases should be done with a wider spectrum of different hardware, but this should be no problem...

So please folks, come back to a normal tone and let them do their good work. And for ME, Nice X is good work with a few probs which can be fixed.

Now you can bash me for being loyal to these good guys... ;)

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Did anybody have those shimmering problems under Windows Seven?

Or are they there just under XP/Vista?

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