Hiflyer 129 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 I have always semi-assumed that any really next-generation flight sim aiming to cover the whole world would almost have to rely at least to some extent on procedural generation. And there are so many interesting looking tools out there nowadays! http://www.procedural.com/ http://www.procedura...yer-import.html http://www.allegorit...p?PAGE=PRODUCTS http://www.allegorithmic.com/index.php?PAGE=GALLERY.demos http://www.gamr7.com/ Or perhaps there is some obvious flaw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsisland 5 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Believe me, it might work for Google Earth but never for a simulator. And I know, been looking for imagery for Iceland for weeks. Have you tried to get decent pictures from Loftmyndir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MABE54 21 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Have a look at VieWTerra: http://www.viewterra.net/main_video.htm Closer to our alley. Not yet there but I believe that procedural might be the way to go. It still needs fine tunning for our Flight Sim objectives. I love the look of the cities from far away. Lots refinements yet but you can anticipate the end of the tunnel. Cheers, MAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MABE54 21 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Hello!!! I found this one: http://dmytry.pandromeda.com/mojoworld/erosion_fractal/erosion_movie2.html Very believable!!! Cheers, MAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reco 3 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Hello!!! I found this one: http://dmytry.pandro...ion_movie2.html Very believable!!! Cheers, MAB Well it is not realtime. It takes two minutes in order to render one fram. I call that lagging. As for rendering nature, Vue is the software to go for. Take a look at the gallery. http://www.e-onsoftware.com/ Reco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfr 0 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Yes, Vue 7.5 looks amazing. It's the best and most complete graphic engine I've seen so far. I would like to hear Mathijs' opinion about it and if this engine would be suitable for a new flight sim. Cheers Walter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted September 17, 2009 Aerosoft Share Posted September 17, 2009 Yes, Vue 7.5 looks amazing. It's the best and most complete graphic engine I've seen so far. I would like to hear Mathijs' opinion about it and if this engine would be suitable for a new flight sim. Cheers Walter The choice of the engine is one of the biggest we got to make and it is hugely complex. Apart from the technical issues there are many commercial issues at hand as well. For example the simple fact we do not want just to 'buy' an engine but also that we want the people who make it to be our partner for at least three years. Other then MS did we intend to keep changing and updating the sim over a period. Many of the engines that looks stunning are very small developments that are not easy to depend on. We are talking millions of dollars and the future of our company, right? In the next two weeks we are having meetings with a few possible partners and we'll know more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reco 3 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Yes, Vue 7.5 looks amazing. It's the best and most complete graphic engine I've seen so far. I would like to hear Mathijs' opinion about it and if this engine would be suitable for a new flight sim. Cheers Walter Just to make things clear. Vue 7.5 is amazing, but it can take many hours to render just one image. So it is not an game engine. (I was replying to MABE54 and the erosion test movie which takes 2 minutes to render 1 frame. Sorry if this has been confusing) It is super real and has been used in movies like The Pirates of the Caribbean. I am looking forward to the day when we can have a quality likes this in a simulator. It wont happend tomorrow, but maybe within the next ten years. What I like most with the situation of Aerosoft producing a flightsimulator, is that they will never create a sim-platform that will make their products look bad. Reco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow 107 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Just something that recently came to mind: It would be really cool if the default sim was released with one full feature International Airport (like MA Heathrow or Frankfurt for example) already included so everyone could see for themselves exactly what a high-end addon can do for you. The same could be done for an area of photoscenery (perhaps some island area like Madeira or Mallorca), again to show off what can be achieved. What better way to promote all the addons you want to sell for the new sim? Not to mention that it would add a lot of value... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggy 5 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Rainbows: no idea how difficult it would be to add them in, but would be nice to have. (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Van%27s-RV-7A/1579221/L/) Cheers, Siggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthscapeone 2 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Rainbows: no idea how difficult it would be to add them in, but would be nice to have. (http://www.airliners...V-7A/1579221/L/) Cheers, Siggy Rainbows, now that's an interesting idea. Seems to imply to me going the full course of a weather pattern, like a thunderstorm resolving into skies clearing up and leaving the rainbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyoming 2 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Yes, Vue 7.5 looks amazing. It's the best and most complete graphic engine I've seen so far. I would like to hear Mathijs' opinion about it and if this engine would be suitable for a new flight sim. Cheers Walter The ideal would be to have several different rendering techniques available through the same sim depending on different factors: altitude (I guess sat images are hard to beat when up high), availability of other types of sceneries, personal taste, area (bush), hardware, etc... Even more ideally, the sim would switch from one type to another depending on such factors. I guess this would boil down to a particularly open platform/engine. But that would certainly guarantee product life... Ideally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_A 1 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 It would be really cool if the default sim was released with one full feature International Airport You'd be welcome to my EGTN Enstone (flightsim.com: enstonex.zip) as an example of what the small GA fields that MS included only as a runway could really look like. (Don't much care for big international airports! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avrolino 0 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I've seen enough posts and i'm suprised that so many have exclusively concentrated in aesthetics and looks , and issues which are of actual practical nature for pilots are not delt with . How many ppl mentioned that a lot of navaids in FS are not in the exact position as in reality. how many ppl mentioned that the signal from many navaids is quickly lost in FS .So the new sim must place all those navaids with their correct promulgated range how many mentioned that the map display in FS is way to small and that gets really annoying especially in the flight analysis menu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Fletcher 570 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Hello Folks, Vue to my knowledge is suitable for something other than a games graphic engines. Talk about the stutters as it tries to do one frame of a highly realistic Heathrow Airport with full AI and thats without Spectral Clouds But I like my Vue 7 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reco 3 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Hello Folks, Vue to my knowledge is suitable for something other than a games graphic engines. Talk about the stutters as it tries to do one frame of a highly realistic Heathrow Airport with full AI and thats without Spectral Clouds But I like my Vue 7 too. Vue 7.5 I am sorry for the confusion my link to the Vue7.5 page led to, and I will like to make it dead once and for all. it is not a game engine, it is a fully raytrayced render engine. It takes frome a couple minutes to many hours in order to render one single frame. I know because I have used Vue 6.0 for a while. I have emphasized this in my previous mails, but it doesn't seems to help. The reason I mention the Vue was just a comment to the erosion test movie wich is rendered as well. Approx 2 minutes per frame. On the other hand, I think raytrayced game engines will be the future, but we do not have the computer power at the moment. Reco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avrolino 0 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 will there be an ability to change instruments in an aircraft if one wishes from the collection of instruments in the gauge folder such as in MFS ? Panel costumization should be a consideration for the upcoming sim . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted September 22, 2009 Aerosoft Share Posted September 22, 2009 will there be an ability to change instruments in an aircraft if one wishes from the collection of instruments in the gauge folder such as in MFS ? Panel costumization should be a consideration for the upcoming sim . Almost impossible with a modern VC where the gauges are build into the model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avrolino 0 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Almost impossible with a modern VC where the gauges are build into the model. With this in mind can i suggest that for each aircraft , you create a panel pick up option from within the aircraft select menu , in which a developer can include as many panel-instrument options as he/she has created (with an accompanying picture and explanation) . There will be of course aircraft with only one option , but of course many others that can have great many options . Its up to the developer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avrolino 0 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Here is another thing that MFS does not have . It does not have a Nose Wheel Steering function . The Nose wheel and Rudder have always been interconnected in MFS and for those aeroplanes that operate on nose wheel steering you just cant have it operating at the latter stages of take-off roll and early stages of landing roll. If the new simulator was to have very good ground manouvering physics , it would suffer at high runway speeds if the nose wheel was to operate . A very convienient method to go about this , is to create separate controls for rudder and nose wheel steering (which means different physics for one and different for the other), but have the option to interconnect them via the aircraft select menu , and additionally to have a speed defined above which disconnection will take place (in reality in most situations the pilot lets go of the nose wheel steering above a defined speed and continues with rudder input only ) . Those that have controls that can be used for NWS can have the option unchecked , the others treat the situation to their liking using the previous mentioned options . As most light aircaft have a permanent interconection of nose wheel and rudder , a developer can have a parameter to set by default the interconnection of nose wheel and rudder , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetos1160 4 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Hello, What would be nice to have is an installed add-ons version follow-up. With all the add-ons that get installed over the months, years and the following updates for each one it is difficult in the end to remember what you are running on top of the main program I think Loman does this for LOMAC simulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedge 5 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Well there is a lot to talk about the making of a sim. A few ideas I have are the following : 1/ Integrate the nav data to the core of the sim, making that central and with a good set of tools to easily update them and make them to the core center of the sim. Like this they can be used by both the sim as navigation points and everything, as well as for the first/third party airplanes that would have complex systems. 2/ ATC and AI Traffic, this is a point that there is a lot to do. With the first point being used, the ATC should be able to know which SID/STAR/IAC give to the aircraft, that then the user can request to change or to get vectors, the final choice being used when there is no such procedures. That would make a much better ATC but that is only a first thought. Next the ATC should know about spacing, and be much better at spacing aircraft, as well as requiring hold, because one of the trouble with FS ATC is that you can literraly get planes much too close and many go arounds in case of very high traffic. 3/ The sim of course needs to be as opened as possible, with all the tools and interface needed to do as many thing as possible with decent performances, on that point I think FS was pretty good, looking at all the existing add ons that does so many different things, from information to flight following and many other things. 4/ It would be very nice to define groups of objects, ith priority, like this for example you can give higher priority to runway lights on airports while in frlight than on taxi lights, much more importance to airports runways than surroundings buildgs, like this either the user or the sim could adjust to get the most important things always visible, and reduce priority of less used stuff to keep the frame rate even. 5/ Make the scenery ordering much more easier, there are obvious way ofdetermining which should be on top of each other, for example, default terrain > add on terrain > default texture > add on texture > area layer addon > airport addon > detail add on (like AES), or something like that that don't require a ranked library like in FS, which don't really make sense as globally you have very few time where all the scenery are one over the other all the way to the top, actually I think it never happen. 6/ Multiplayer is important, and making the core of the sim able to connet directly to VATSIM/IVAO would be a nice touch, it would make things much easier, and also much more interfaced to the core of the sim, this would be a great idea, and might help to democratize online flights, more than having the usual multiplayer sessions thing. 7/ That is an obivous point for a sim of that kind I think, but making many beta with a greater number of people, as well as gaving access to this betas to the FS developers, would help I think to both have the better sim possible, but would also lead to have valuable return as well as posibility for third party add ons from the begining, while teams would have time to polish their skills. Well those are just my few little ideas and wishes, I had thought for a new sim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Lürkens 30 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Almost impossible with a modern VC where the gauges are build into the model. Hm, not exactly right, as also in FSX you can modify the VC instruments, as they are mostly projected on a canvas, being imposted in the VC at run time. It is a problem, though, when it comes to fully 3D rendered gauges. Even in that case, one might 3D-model the intrument's housing only, still having the readings and needles imposter-based, which would offer sufficient options for intrument upgrades and improvements from the community. best regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn 873 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Hm, not exactly right, as also in FSX you can modify the VC instruments, as they are mostly projected on a canvas, being imposted in the VC at run time. It is a problem, though, when it comes to fully 3D rendered gauges. Even in that case, one might 3D-model the intrument's housing only, still having the readings and needles imposter-based, which would offer sufficient options for intrument upgrades and improvements from the community. best regards, Peter The future will definitly be "real" 3D gauges as used in aircrfat like the Catalina, Realair addons etc.. Instruments projected on a canvas are infact 2D instruments wich has a max update rate of 18 fps, thus less fluid than 3D gauges. Finn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avrolino 0 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Even in that case, one might 3D-model the intrument's housing only, still having the readings and needles imposter-based, which would offer sufficient options for intrument upgrades and improvements from the community. best regards, Peter I do not know if integrating the 3d gauges completely into the aircraft model is related to performance benefits , but by reducing the modularity of the panels , is a step back. Simply there will not be a possibility for panel editing as we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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