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Manny

How to do reverse Thermals?

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I would like to have an effect of sinking. Meaning..when Approching to land over a warm land and then pass into a wooded area.. you have this sinking feeling. I would like to create this effect for my home airport.

Any ideas, how I can achieve this?

Manny

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I think it may be possible to simulate it with the FSX SDK if you have the FSX Deluxe Edition. It may be a lot of work though, I'm not sure. Hopefully Ian(forsterlewis) or Peter(Funky) can tell you if it's possible, and how to possibly go about doing it if it can be done. I believe if anyone would know how to do it, they would be the ones to ask. I think they are very knowledgable about such things.

Scott

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The mainstream Microsoft FSX way would be to plant a thermal where you want it in a mission, using the Online Placement Tool (OPT).

A mission is simply a saved 'free flight' with an associated 'mission file' that adds whatever you want into the environment, in your case a thermal (with a negative lift value). You create the 'mission file' using a tool that comes with the FSX Deluxe or Acceleration SDK called the Online Placement Tool, which is a wysiwyg point-and-click placement tool.

If you've ever used the OPT you could place your thermal in less than a minute, but the OPT itself takes a little while to familiarise. There is a tutorial video here: http://fsxmission.com/files/guides/howto/createmission/

(see the 'create mission' section) but you would create a mission with a single object (i.e. a thermal) in it. Well actually two objects - you create a RectangleArea defining the bounds of the thermal, and a 'Thermal' with a reference to that RectangleArea.

After that you would fly the 'mission' rather than free flight, but your mission would effectively be free flight as you'd have no fancy triggers, objectives or briefings.

The thermal object is very simple, but in addition there's a 'RidgeLift' object which is far more complex. A tutorial on the use of both these objects is here:

http://carrier.csi.cam.ac.uk/forsterlewis/...x/dev/lift.html

but this tutorial assumes you already know the OPT.

Ian

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Hi Ian,

1. Can I only do this in Mission or a saved Mission in free flight? Can't I place the thermal in a scenery (for free flight).

2. Which file do I tweak for negative Thermals and what parameter?

3. Can't I use something like an object placement tool (F1's Instant scenery) to place a thermal object? I think I saw a thermal object that I could place. I did try using this once, except the green spiraling line was visible and not even sure if ther thermal effect was on when flying over it.

4. Can I set it up such that a GA aircraft like a Cessna 172 (not just a glider) would feel the lift so simmers have to make realistic adjustments?

BTW, I am familiar with the mission creation tool

Manny

This is exactly what I am looking for.. except in free flight and with enough lift and Sink to affect regular GA aircrafts.

thermals_overview.jpg

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1. Can I only do this in Mission or a saved Mission in free flight? Can't I place the thermal in a scenery (for free flight).

No - just in a mission. There's a misunderstanding though - a mission *is* just free flight, with a mission files attached. If your mission file just has one thermal in it, then you are in free flight with one thermal. The only difference is the menu item you click on the FSX start page. A Thermal object is not a normal static scenery object that can be placed with other scenery placement tools.

2. Which file do I tweak for negative Thermals and what parameter?

Simply the CoreRateScalar value of a RidgeLift object, or the CoreRate of a Thermal. Make the value negative and the thermal will have sink as strong as you want.

3. Can't I use something like an object placement tool (F1's Instant scenery) to place a thermal object? I think I saw a thermal object that I could place. I did try using this once, except the green spiraling line was visible and not even sure if ther thermal effect was on when flying over it.

In FSX settings set thermal visualization to 'natural', or use a RidgeLift object instead of a Thermal to guarantee no indicator on any PC.

4. Can I set it up such that a GA aircraft like a Cessna 172 (not just a glider) would feel the lift so simmers have to make realistic adjustments?

All aircraft will feel the effect of RidgeLift or Thermals - you just need to make them big enough and strong enough.

B21

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Thanks Ian. I'll give that a shot and get back here either way.

Manny

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If you use a RidgeLift object, set the CoreRateScalar and SinkRateScalar values to be +/- the same number. E.g. CoreRateScalar = -1.0, SinkRateScalar = 1.0. That way the ridgelift box will just be a simple box with the same lift or sink throughout and you will be able to work out what you are doing.

The design usage where you have RidgeLift with a more complex internal structure with lift in some parts and sink in others is *not* useful in practice, particularly for a first attempt.

Ian

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All right..I created a mission and created two area rectangles.. 1) warm area and 2) cold area. I created two thermals ..one with +ve CoreRate for the warm and -ve CoreRate for the cold area... and it works like a charm.

But.... How do I save this in regular flight? When I move over the flt file to the flight simulator x folder where all .flts are, it doesnt appear in the "load flights" section. It only appears under "Missions". When I remove the [ObjectFile] entry from the flt file, then it shows up...but it loses the thermals.

IS it even possible to put the mission flights in the regular flight area and load it under "load flights" even if it remains a mission?

Manny

:blush:

Edited to add: I realize, I can't do what I want. Folks would have to start via the Mission menu and fly as free flight.

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Folks would have to start via the Mission menu and fly as free flight.

Correct - the key point is that free flight and missions are really the same thing - with hindsight it's not clear Microsoft needed separate menu items and it would probably have been more sensible to add categories to the 'free flights' with the mission entry at the end of the .FLT file remaining optional. So you would now be looking in your different 'free flight' categories, some of which would have mission elements, instead. But what we have is what we have, and you shouldn't worry about loading the flight from the mission menu rather than the free flight menu as otherwise it's the same, and you can 'save' flights just the same (in fact in that case they even get saved in the same folder as the free flights).

So if you add either thermals or static scenery in a mission and that's all, there is no onus on the pilot to fly in any particular direction...

Ian

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That's some incredible work you've done Manny! It reminded me of all the editing I used to do in my first flight sim (FS4). I had to add some surrounding airports into my FS4 installation from where I grew up in the Mid-Missouri area. But it wasn't anywhere near the quality of what you have done. Wow, those were the days.

sf4JC

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