Updated Training Documentation...Anyone?!

[sf4JC 1]

I've been trying to get a small informal thermal soaring contest together for both FS2004 and FSX, but I recently found that the Flight Training tutorial under the Pilot Corner/Info & Training menu is not updated to using CCS2004, or even CumulusX! for that matter, for those not very familiar with flying a contest and such. It may still be relavent to certain FS2002/2004 instances, I'm unsure, as long as the individual deletes the bgl lift before using CCS2004. Am I assuming somewhat correctly that everybody is using CCS2004 with FS2004 rather than the old way of creating .bgl lift?

This contest will be run online if I get it set up correctly, and be for both FS2004 and FSX together using FSHost/FSHostClient with set weather/time conditions. You will be able to find it with FSHostSpy, or maybe I'll also post the address here. You will also be required to download a file containing what you need to compete from my newly created Windows Live Space. From the looks of it right now, the file will be a little over 1MB in size (even with the FS2004 cumulus .BGL included).

Anyway, is anyone aware of, or has there ever been a tutorial for using CCS2004, the CAISET gauges, and FSZweverViewer together, I'm feeling kinda exhausted from trying to pull this all together? I'm getting just a glimps of how much time and dedication it takes to put something like this together, and I just hope it will be at least somewhat successful.

By the way, does anyone have any words of advice? I feel close to being done (within a week maybe), but I figure any advice would be truely helpful and appreciated.

THANKS

Scott

[sf4JC 1]

Welp, I've found a snag :???: on the FSX side of the contest. Apparently FSHost cannot send it's current time and date to FSX as it does to FS2004 (which will be a custom set so as to accommodate to some degree those that are on the opposite side of the world). So the contest will greatly depend on the FSX individuals to set up the time and date correctly to the current FSHost server time, because they will need to be in sequence with the FS2004 individuals to get the same thermals if flying together at that moment through CumulusX!/CCS2004. The only other alternative that I see is to just run an offline contest, but I was really wanting to get more than just one set of individuals together online. I just feel there is still some adverse or negative feelings still between the FS2004 users and FSX users, and maybe if we could all get together at the same time, it would bring the community closer together somewhat.

This is probably really not the thread to voice opinions on the subject, but what do you all think? I do take constructive criticism well if your wondering :AA: .

sf4JC

[Peter Lürkens 30]

Hi Scott,

I think it will need seperate classes anyway (FSX/FS9), since there will be at least differences in the flight model of the planes.

Regarding time, there are syncing tools which can adjust your FS-clock automatically to GMT +/- a given offset. I propose to publish the offset in the FSHost info line.

Regarding cheating the chance for scheating, I'm afraid that we are a bit helpless with an open system and can only rely on the honesty of the participants. I considered a while ago a "Logger"-plugin that in addition of track reports checksums of air-file, cfg-files, but after short it turned out to become Sisyphean task to stop all potential cheating wholes.

Can you log flights from FSHOST server side, btw? In the older days flights were analyzed to find tampering with the flight dynamics and slewing by checking glide angle against published performance data.

regards,

Peter

[sf4JC 1]

Yea, cheating is the real bummer of any contest. I'm "advertizing" the contest as informal in hopes of a person inclined to cheat won't (though I know, cheaters CHEAT, no matter what aspect of there lives). I'm just going to publish a kind of unofficial results. I'm also thinking that I'll let a person try as many times as they want, not to really get a better score (which is still okay to do), but to have a chance to fly with others if they get a chance. This contest will hopefully just turn out to be a funfly event.

As far as classes though, I think I'll keep that open to "what you brung". I don't have the knowledge to put everyone into the correct classes as such, unless I really look into it. I figure since it's basically a fun contest, a person knows there chances of furthering their score if need be with a better suited aircraft. I don't know how the "older/historic if you will" models will do, but it would be neat to see them in the air next to you if there was a chance.

And as far as flight model or dynamics, I'm kinda at a loss. I just automatically assumed (incorrectly I suppose :smashfreak: ) that a model in FS2004 would fly the same as in FSX.

Then comes the logging of flights. Yes, FSHost can log everyones individual flight with time, Latitude/Longitude, on ground/flying/slewing/pause, change of model, and I'll have to look into it further to see what else. But with the help of FSZwever Viewer, It saves a flight in a log and IGC file format. I'm unsure of the difference, I just know a person can see pauses/slewing effects in an IGC file if I remember correctly. The IGC file is I believe the one I'm most interested in.

One thing I haven't mentioned is a kind of photo shot contest that I remember reading about in earlier contests at SOAR. If a person sends me in-contest photos, I may get a chance to publish them with the unofficial results.

I think I've "bitten off more than I can chew", but I'm up to the challenge for the moment.

sf4JC

EDIT: I forgot to mention also, a person running FSX may have an advantage over an FS2004 individual, but I don't know if I want to make that public knowledge yet on the "how it's possible", but it will need to be addressed sometime.

EDIT AGAIN!: By the way, THANKS Peter for your input, it's greatly appreciated.

[sf4JC 1]

Well guys (and gals if any), I believe I'm going to anounce in the next 2 weeks if possible, a

:pilot: FUN FLY SOARING EVENT :glider: for both FS2004 and FSX using my FSHost server at the end of May2008 sometime. Right now I'm actually looking to make it happen Saturday, May 31st. Just want to give everybody the heads up. I'm not looking at making it a huge turnout, in fact, I'll be happy if just a few show up. I'll be happy either way. I'll make a new post for it to get an idea as to maybe how many might show up, and where to get the files needed to make it enjoyable to both FS2004 and FSX users alike.

Scott

[DirkBoehm 0]

Hi Scott,

imho it sounds like a great idea and i'm looking forward to the event.

I don't really know if we really should bother with the cheating aspect. My online experiance in soaring flights is that it's mostly serious pilots joining in and - as long as we keep winnable prices low - a soaring event won't be a real target for those cheating kids. Not least as we don't use any military aircraft or those Extras.

Just keep up your work and trust in justice. Mankind isn't that bad!

I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your efforts... It's really going to be fun. Keep up!

:cheers2: Dirk

[sf4JC 1]

Thanks Dirk, and yea, I've decided not to worry about cheating since it's going to be a fun fly. I've run into another possible problem with lift or aircraft flight dynamics between sims. I recorded a flight in FSX with the FS Recorder and tried to follow the flight in FS2004, and just couldn't keep the rate of climb and even the altitude for that matter. So that might be another advantage FSX has over FS2004, but I need to run some more tests. Also, I think I may be still running an older version of the aircraft in FS2004, so I'm going to update that to see if that is possibly my problem.

sf4JC

[DirkBoehm 0]

Thanks Dirk, and yea, I've decided not to worry about cheating since it's going to be a fun fly. I've run into another possible problem with lift or aircraft flight dynamics between sims. I recorded a flight in FSX with the FS Recorder and tried to follow the flight in FS2004, and just couldn't keep the rate of climb and even the altitude for that matter. So that might be another advantage FSX has over FS2004, but I need to run some more tests. Also, I think I may be still running an older version of the aircraft in FS2004, so I'm going to update that to see if that is possibly my problem.

sf4JC

Hello again Scott,

I think I could perfectly live with two race "classes" (is classes correct here?). I would be happy if we just all fly together and then compare our result with the competitors which used the same Flightsim for the race.

Just my 50 cents.

:cheers2: Dirk

[sf4JC 1]

Thanks again Dirk! I believe I'm just going to leave it up to the individual on what they fly and when. It will just be a "run what ya brung" thing. Also, I hope it doesn't interfere with anyone, but it will most likely be open flying, and if you want to try the contest, do it any time you find an opening and with however many times as a person wants or even with one or more aircraft, they choose.

Thanks for the suggestion about posting results in catagories such as you said, FSX/Aircraft and FS2004/Aircraft, and maybe even an overall winner, I beleive I'll use that. And maybe even, who stays up in the sky the longest, how knows. Right now I'm updating all of Wolfgangs aircraft that I have to see if I can make the weather somewhat satisfactory for a person running an aircraft from the early years of gliding.

sf4JC

[Peter Lürkens 30]

And maybe even, who stays up in the sky the longest, how knows.

Endurance soaring flights are no more recorded since the late 50ies, when they stopped at somewhat of 56 hrs. The FAI decided, that further records are no longer achieved through airman-ship, rather than through coffee. :yahoo:

Cheers,

Peter

[DirkBoehm 0]

Endurance soaring flights are no more recorded since the late 50ies, when they stopped at somewhat of 56 hrs. The FAI decided, that further records are no longer achieved through airman-ship, rather than through coffee. :yahoo:

Cheers,

Peter

Hey pals,

:java: won't be the problem for us, will it? :whistling: As we can exit our planes in 4000ft, run to the kitchen, setup a fresh dosis, pit stop by the toilet and then climb back into the aircraft at 3500ft

But as long as we're talking about a multiplayer event, I have other things to concern about.

Don't know if this is an issue outside Germany, but here we're usually disconnected by force after at least 24h online-time. Plus: If one's unlucky he even gets a new IP from his ISP. Any ideas how to get around beeing disconnected in flight? Peter?

Another issue I see is: Which planes will be allowed?

I think it should be reglemented somehow. To get visual information about your competitors (e.g. who's that one in front of me, can I keep up his speed, etc.) it would be great to see ones plane as the type it is.

I think it the number of planes to choose would be big enough if we limit them to Wolfgang's gliders, those standard planes of FS9+X and perhaps two or three additional ones.

:cheers2: Dirk.

[Peter Lürkens 30]

The disconnect is a real show stopper for MS based online connection. You don't have a chance to reconnect without ending and restarting the flight.

This is a clear advantage for FSHOST and FSINN, where you can reconnect seamlessly.

The plane display is another one. Best of course is to have exactly the plane installed that your competitor has. Both FSINN and FSHOST have options to do an appropriate mapping manually.

I think to focus on Wolfgangs collection is a good idea, maybe plus the standard planes.

However, to my feeling the original 808 is way to bad. I got me the original polar and fixed it more or less by modifying aicraft.cfg. Because anybody could do it easily it actually means that we may need something like a simple approval tool producing checksums of aircraft.cfg and the -air file for compliance with approved versions. Best this would be combined with a logging function.

regards,

Peter

[sf4JC 1]

As far as which aircraft is allowed, maybe I'll put that in the main thread too, so people can download what an individual has. I know, to make this really enjoyable, I've got all of Wolfgang's aircraft and possibly a few more if the conversion goes ok from FS2004 to FSX.

Another MORE important thing for me to think about is, where to start your flight as to avoid others maybe using the runway for takeoff and landing. Also, how to get to the runway, I wish the slew function could be used for that. And last but not least, I haven't tested to see if the runways lineup between sims. There's an awfull lot of them that don't match up, I'll need to do some testing on that as well, to get an idea as to what can be done to fix problems that may pop up.

sf4JC

[vladyi 0]

Anyway, is anyone aware of, or has there ever been a tutorial for using CCS2004, the CAISET gauges, and FSZweverViewer together, I'm feeling kinda exhausted from trying to pull this all together? I'm getting just a glimps of how much time and dedication it takes to put something like this together, and I just hope it will be at least somewhat successful.

By the way, does anyone have any words of advice? I feel close to being done (within a week maybe), but I figure any advice would be truely helpful and appreciated.

THANKS

Scott

Hi Scott,

I'm also a beginner in this great SOARING world, so I've looked for various info about these tools.

In the end I managed to find some useful staff, I think, bundled in a single document.

Please look at this document: http://www.cixvfrclub.org.uk/operations/events/EVFiles/080826_Gliding/Cix%20VFR%20Club%20Gliding.doc

Seems to be a good tutorial for beginners and contains also topics about CCS2004, CAISET gauges, Flight Viewer/Recorder, Cumulus and so on for both FS9/FSX.

Hope this will help,

Vladimir

[sf4JC 1]

Thanks for the info Vladimir! I'm going to have to look into that to see if it's what I've been looking for.

Scott

[Tuor 0]

Thanks Vladimir that document is fantastic. I was able to visually display British turn-points on Google Earth and use TPSelect to choose turn-points around Long Mynd gliding club (scenery on the same site) and make a dat file. Cheers

[Richard64 0]

The document you refer to was written by myself and Peter Dodds.

However we are/have updated it.

It will be in several parts 2 of which are available now at http://www.ukvga.org.uk/documentation.php

The next document will be for the more advanced and include details on Caiset Instruments etc.

[sf4JC 1]

Thanks Richard, I still have had no time to go through all the documentation yet, but Thanks for taking the time in putting it all together.

Scott