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Snave

Oh dear, this could be Bad

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Time will only tell how long it takes - not if.

We are still years away from such a model and I am just as "anxious" as you are about certain aspects of it. We'll get there in the end, and it will be no MMO.

Konrad

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Time will only tell how long it takes - not if.

We are still years away from such a model and I am just as "anxious" as you are about certain aspects of it. We'll get there in the end, and it will be no MMO.

Konrad

The thing is, if I want to go flying with friends and get cretinous comments, I take non-flying mates up in a real plane... they can always be relied upon to say something utterly stupid! :lol:

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Hi,

Has everbody seen the item on the avsim home page re the future of MS Flight Sim? Seems like a direction I don't want to go.

Regards

Peter.

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Hi,

Has everbody seen the item on the avsim home page re the future of MS Flight Sim? Seems like a direction I don't want to go.

Regards

Peter.

Its certainly something I would have no wish to be a part of. Whatsoever.

MS are, however, to be applauded for making it ridiculously easy for such a decision to be made in place of their usual filibuster and non-committal comments.

Wonder how long before they pull the plug on downloadable weather..?

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From a personal and purely selfish point of view, although I realise that it will affect many people adversely, download weather doesn't bother me so long as it doesn't also affect active sky downloads. But from my perspective it does now put a limited time span on the life of our beloved sim. There are only so many years that the third party developers will be able to develop new products and support both FS9 and X. I do hope however that there will be quite a few years life left in the products, so that we will all be able to enjoy or hobby for many more years.

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Its certainly something I would have no wish to be a part of. Whatsoever.

I agree. Does not sound like my idea of what a Flight Sim should be. Can just picture us all still on FSX in 2015 - everything running 4096 textures... At least we'll be able to say we own all of it (as opposed to renting or subscribing).

Wonder how long before they pull the plug on downloadable weather..?

If they do someone else will step in. It may become a payware model like Navigraph but so what - at least if we pay we have someone to (try) chase if it does not meet expectations.

Konrad

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Speculation, asking us not to speculate...? I might speculate that to speculate on the speculation while asking others not to speculate could be extremely confusing. Speculatively...

While I don't aim anything at individuals who choose to bank the MS buck, surely they need to know just what they are getting themselves into, a situation created entirely by their Lords and Masters?

It's a bit rich asking to give MS time. They gave us short shrift, and as I remarked before our allegiance is nothing more than rudimentary Pavlovian response, when they've got no `bone` to feed, is it any wonder we lose interest and walk away?

I read as much into the MS decision as I want. The simple fact is that MS is changing the business relationship without asking first.

Time to find a new Player in town...

Have you guys seen the screenies of Oleg Maddox's new Battle of Briain sim, due sometime this year?

imgc.jpg

A VC that shames anything FS or XP

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Michelangelo painted a quite nice ceiling, but someone else built the chapel. A cockpit is not the world. Let Oleg declare his intentions for the planet. That could be of interest.

-Doug

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Michelangelo painted a quite nice ceiling, but someone else built the chapel. A cockpit is not the world. Let Oleg declare his intentions for the planet. That could be of interest.

-Doug

Absolutely right. But before the Sistine could be built they had to tear down the old chapel first. It didn't fall down all by itself after the builder crashed his own cart into it... One swallow does not a summer make, but what this does show is that there is a wealth of talent out there, and now MS have created a void there's more than one way to put an `X` in the box.

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Hey Everyone,

This was posted on the front page of Avsim.net and for those who havent seen it, here is the transcript:

The Facts Emerge - The future of MS Flight Simulation

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Posted: Sunday, February 8, 2009 - 20:01

There has been a lot of speculation, rumor and simple guesses as to what Microsoft is going to do with the Flight Simulator “enterprise”. Through a number of sources, some of whom are former ACES members, we have been able to get to the bottom of where our hobby is heading, at least as far as Microsoft is concerned. Our sources will remain anonymous, for obvious reasons. Here are the hard, cold, and very disappointing facts:

FACT: Microsoft Flight Simulator for the PC is dead. There are no plans to continue the FS series in a form that we would recognize. The wholesale dispatch of the ACES team speaks volumes to this.

FACT: ESP is dead. Boeing, Raytheon and presumably Northrop Grumman (ESP’s first adopters) received notification that the ESP franchise is done and that, in effect, they are on their own. We have seen some discussion putting hope in the emergence of ESP as the next "engine" for flight simulator. That is not going to happen.

FACT: Some developers in our hobby approached Microsoft to purchase the MSFX code. Microsoft rebuffed that offer in total. We presume that this is because having the FSX code out there would “diffuse” their future intent and model for a flight simulator “replacement”.

What is Microsoft’s future intent as regards flight simulation? Simple really… Create a flight simulation system for Windows Live, and sell applications for it much like Apple does for their IPhone / Ipod family. Third party developers will have to submit their applications, as do Apple developers, for approval by MS and they in turn would earn a percentage from the sales of those applications. Vendors that we have talked to are extremely upset about this. It also brings back memories of the infamous Papa Tango attempts to hijack freeware.

Imagine for a moment a “live” simulator that has as its core a “Flight Unlimited” like virtual world. You can fly around a very small part of the world in the default system, but to add to your simulation world, you have to purchase the additional scenery from MS. You want more than a 172, a Baron, or a 737? Simple, purchase it via the Live system.

Imagine for a moment the availability of liveries that would be made available. Without approval by the airlines, you can imagine the lack of variety in the “live” modeled aircraft. Under the present arrangement, freeware is seen as free advertising for the United’s, American’s, Lufthansa’s and others of the world. Insert the dollar into the equation, and it is reasonable to expect that our current arrangement with carriers would evaporate. Would MS consider providing freeware via its live system? Don’t hold your breath – too many liability concerns, copyright infringement risks, product support and management issues to take on for free.

What about VATSIM, IVAO and the plethora of other peripheral attractions that we now benefit from? Imagine paying to connect to VATSIM for an hour or two of supervised flight. Spend some time thinking about the ramifications of this, and it only gets scarier.

We have a simple new reality to face up to; Microsoft has changed their business model as regards the flight simulation genre and we are seeing the first steps of that new model taking hold. We can assume that a “live” version will entail online subscription costs per month or year, and additional add-on’s will cost us.

I think we all better run out and get ourselves coipes of fs2004 and fsx while they are still available from the stores and stock as many paywares addons as possible.

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And even in that MS reveal that they haven't got a clue.

What better option than to license the code to third party developers who can develop a separate `sim` as opposed to `game` project, still under the ultimate control of MS..? You could identify and develop synergies, cross-fertilisation and common development modules that might substantially decrease development and production costs, while still allowing MS to maintain a standing with a foot in both camps.

Instead, they effectively leave the market wide open to the opposition - an opposition who can be relied upon to market against any future flight simulation product MS can be expected to produce. X-Plane is already talking about integrating FSX designs, so the concept is already Out There, rather than `way out there`!

They really aren't very clever, are they..? You eviscerate the heart of the core product, alienate the community, demand their compliance, then apparently set out to compete instead of co-operate with those who could have been valuable assets.

Just who do they think is going to develop the aftermarket for the `game`..? The irony is this could end up costing MS a fortune, for a drop in sales. Oh I do hope the beancounters are accountable...

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This is sad news we hear but the flight community has got come to terms that the simulation would end someday.

We just have to accept it and use what we have. Nothing lasts forever.

Regards

Mo

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This is sad news we hear but the flight community has got come to terms that the simulation would end someday.

We just have to accept it and use what we have. Nothing lasts forever.

Regards

Mo

I don't think there's any need to be pessimistic. With MS stepping out of the way there is absolutely no way that flight simulation is `ending`. Quite the opposite is probably true. With MS releasing their grip on the market-dominating position there are potential markets ripe for exploiting. Flight simulation doens't die until no-one wants it, no-one makes it, and no-one cares about it.

None of that applies here. The only ones who don't care are MS. ;)

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What is Microsoft’s future intent as regards flight simulation? Simple really… Create a flight simulation system for Windows Live, and sell applications for it much like Apple does for their IPhone / Ipod family.

I'd rather fly FSX in 2020 than jump onto that waggon ... :angry:

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Microsoft from my part can simply burn in hell. As much as I love Flight Simulation, I will never pay 1000 dollars to have the full scenery of FSX, and basically I do not own the game, I simply rent it/subscribe to it.

Simply stupid.

I hate Microsoft. About time I said it myself.

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Mircosoft as far as I heard has not sold the rights or code to Flight Simulator so if the economy improves we may hopefully see FS-11 someday! ;) one hopes!

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Mircosoft as far as I heard has not sold the rights or code to Flight Simulator so if the economy improves we may hopefully see FS-11 someday! ;) one hopes!

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Mircosoft as far as I heard has not sold the rights or code to Flight Simulator so if the economy improves we may hopefully see FS-11 someday! ;) one hopes!

Well Microsoft never owned the full rights (think of Jeppesen, Boeing, Cessna etc) so things are not simple. They can't sell what they don't own.

In the end it is all not very important up tot he moment until we would all expect the new version and that is (was) at least 18 months from now. That's a lot of time for companies like Aerosoft to come up with an alternative. And yes, that's being looked at very seriously. So sit down, enjoy the right for the next 18 months.

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Microsoft from my part can simply burn in hell. As much as I love Flight Simulation, I will never pay 1000 dollars to have the full scenery of FSX, and basically I do not own the game, I simply rent it/subscribe to it.

Simply stupid.

I hate Microsoft. About time I said it myself.

Now that's a rant that asks for more explanation...

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They pulled the plug on the best game they ever made, and now they're basically asking us to contribute with cash so they can continue the series!

It's unfair!

Plus Windows Vista is a catastrophe, I even made the mistake and bought it 64-bit Ultimate. Not a waste of money, but severely overpriced for what it's offering.

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Michelangelo painted a quite nice ceiling, but someone else built the chapel. A cockpit is not the world. Let Oleg declare his intentions for the planet. That could be of interest.

-Doug

Very true but this is a interview with Oleg Maddox just after the demise of the aces studio.

storm of war interview

Some pretty intersting stuff in there about what he's doing and where he's trying to take the new sim,the of the most exciting bits of infomation i think

Q: You’ve stated many times in previous interviews that BoB will be drastically different from the Il-2 series. What do you mean by that?

A: Not a very easy question to answer, but I’ll try to respond the best I can without divulging some secret information.

1. The engine and the system we’re developing is built from the ground up to allow future expansions. Each new product can be stand-alone, or it can plug in with the others starting with BoB, following the success of Pacific Fighters which proved that this model can be viable.

2. We’re developing a system that is more than just a flight sim, but can be a sub sim, PT boat sim, tank sim, helicopter sim, etc. By the way, we just might have a flyable autogyro in BoB.

3. We’re also writing a completely new, drastically improved online code with multiple modes and features. It can even support a server-based MMO with a monthly fee. This of course won’t happen with BoB itself, but is possible on its engine, possibly made by other teams that further develop into this direction.

4. Quality level for ground and air objects is ages beyond what was one with Il-2. I don’t think that such a huge leap will be possible after BoB; the only changes that can happen is increase in polycount or texture size, or more detailed interior details. Even Il-2 was often used as a reference by other developers, and BoB will even have uses for movies.

5. We’re working on an add-on and expansion module that will not affect the online playing field. After BoB is released we plan to publish a set of tools that will allow end-users to:

* Create new planes;

* Create new vehicles, tanks, ships, etc;

* Create new static objects, such as building, bridges, equipment, etc;

* Create new maps, with limits on total size. We’ll leave large maps for ourselves, for our own new sims.

Of course, to do any of that end users will need to have experience with other 3rd party software, such as 3D modeling suites. There are a lot of people that have the required skills around the world, of course, including right here in this country.

Even just the few details I’ve listed above should give you an idea of all the possibilities we have with BoB. One of the consequences is that a whole industry can pop up around BoB similar to that around Microsoft Flight Simulator, creating add-ons for it, also considering the online fairness with BoB. We can also expect a large number of new aircraft to become available soon after BoB’s release, including Soviet planes. One Russian plane will even ship with BoB, the Su-26. We’ve built it following many requests from pilots around the world. Many in the West are also asking for the Yak-52. You can see how different BoB will be from Il-2 in this respect. In Il-2 we had to develop or insert all new objects ourselves, specifically for the purposes of maintaining cheater-free online gameplay. Remember that we’ve released a huge number of these add-ons for free.

And

Q: And now Oleg, please go into more details on your thoughts of the future of Storm of War compared to Il-2, given the potential you’ve built into the engine from the start.

A: Considering what I’ve said already, and given an initial commercial success of BoB, here’s what I see:

1. Some number of developers internationally that worked with MSFS, and probably a large part of them too, will convert to our side. This is especially to be expected considering the recent closing of Aces studio. So these add-on developers might just start making add-ons for Storm of War. I think this might even include jets, including modern ones. At the very least I would expect someone to do Vietnam, not to mention WWI. This should happen too. Generally WWI aircraft are easier to model and program, since they don’t have such complex aerodynamics, no retractable landing gear, propeller pitch, and other advanced devices. There’s also no radio, which means there’s no need to develop and record radio chatter.

Maybe there's some hope yet,from what I'v read the storm of war series is going to have a lot of great fetures and if they can pull it off as planned could be the next great flight sim franchise for a lot of ppl.

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