AN/APG-68 Radar

[mangold 0]

I wil report here

What I still not understand completely: does a moving Antenna Elevation Tic signal normal elevation antenna operation?

Mr Horten, here my report: excellent work !!! Thanks

1) I can control Antenna Elevation by key press and see the Tic moving accordingly.

2) when stationary on GND I can pic up targets and see interaction betw range and antenna elevation

3) I even observe the acquisition cursor sometimes automatically picking up a target

All this is absolutely breathtaking. Never saw that in any FSX software before.

What I am missing is a button to go throug the targetlist and select a target.

Regards mangold

[mangold 0]

Further Report

4) and I can see the antenna auto following a captured target in AZIMUTH. unbelievable !!!

[Horten229 0]

What I still not understand completely: does a moving Antenna Elevation Tic signal normal elevation antenna operation?

Regards mangold

Yes. The antenna can only see about 5 degrees of elevation by itself and only automatically scans a max of about 20 (4 bars). It has a total elevation range of 120 degrees (+/- 60 degrees from 0) but to get that you have to move the antenna (the Antenna Elevation wheel). I suppose they could make this automatic but it would take over a minute to make all of those sweeps (the antenna takes about 3 seconds to sweep one bar at 120 azimuth range), which would not be very useful.

So moving the antenna to the area of interest is normal. Note that the radar remembers where a target is and displays it on the screeen until the next sweep doesn't see it. That's why they sometimes disappear when you move the Antenna Elevation.

[Horten229 0]

Mr Horten, here my report: excellent work !!! Thanks

1) I can control Antenna Elevation by key press and see the Tic moving accordingly.

2) when stationary on GND I can pic up targets and see interaction betw range and antenna elevation

3) I even observe the acquisition cursor sometimes automatically picking up a target

All this is absolutely breathtaking. Never saw that in any FSX software before.

What I am missing is a button to go throug the targetlist and select a target.

Regards mangold

Sitting on the ground looking at targets from Andrews Air Force Base is how I usually test.

The way you go through the target list is with the cursor. The idea is to put it near a target of interest and it will snap to it then you can bug the target and gets its details (on the top of the screen and on the HUD). I remember you said you were using a game controller. If its like most, you should try to program the "cross" to be the cursor controls and use two of the other buttons for antenna elevation.

And for other cool effects, if you reduce the azimuth width (mouse near the A6 on the screen) the azimuth limits (blue lines) will contract. The azimuth with be centered on the cursor and move with an attached target.

I don't think anyone has ever called anything I did "breathtaking". Thanks

[stovall 1]

But if you comment out Engine.3 the analogue (axis) cursor controls shouldn't work because they are based on Engine 4 (which is Engine.3 because Engine.0 is Engine 1). Unless you are using digital cursor controls.

Are you shure you are mapping Cursor range and azimuth to Engine 4 Propeller and Mixture (and not Engine 3)? If I comment out Engine.3 I loose the cursor.

Horten 229, I have tried until blue in the face to program my Cougar to use the MicroStick to move my Cursor. Using Foxy and trying to assign the axis to my microstick. So far I have had no luck. If you have any idea of the assignment code to insert into my TMJ I would appreciate it. All my referances just do not show how to make the microstick axis programable to brake left and brake right.

Help, Thanks, Tom

[Horten229 0]

Horten 229, I have tried until blue in the face to program my Cougar to use the MicroStick to move my Cursor. Using Foxy and trying to assign the axis to my microstick. So far I have had no luck. If you have any idea of the assignment code to insert into my TMJ I would appreciate it. All my referances just do not show how to make the microstick axis programable to brake left and brake right.

Help, Thanks, Tom

That I can help with. It took me a long time to figure this out as well until I found it online somewhere. You don't actually use a TMJ but do it directly from the CCP. Here is my CCP screen.

You will note that Left and Right Toe Brake (which I don't actually have on this device) are now Axes 9 and 10 that DirectX doesn't read (limit of only 8 per device) and Microstick X and Y are reassigned to Axes 7 and 8 (where the Toe Brakes used to be). This only works if you are not using the Thrustmaster Peddals because they plug into the Joystick and Throttle and act like one device (with a limit of 8 axes). You can then assign axes 7 and 8 to the Engine 4 Mixture and Propeller Axes in the FSX Settings - Controls - Control Axes menus. They show up as Toe Brake Right and Left when you enter them.

And don't use Button and Axis Emulation On because it disables all of the DirectX access to the HOTAS system.

[stovall 1]

That I can help with. It took me a long time to figure this out as well until I found it online somewhere. You don't actually use a TMJ but do it directly from the CCP. Here is my CCP screen.

You will note that Left and Right Toe Brake (which I don't actually have on this device) are now Axes 9 and 10 that DirectX doesn't read (limit of only 8 per device) and Microstick X and Y are reassigned to Axes 7 and 8 (where the Toe Brakes used to be). This only works if you are not using the Thrustmaster Peddals because they plug into the Joystick and Throttle and act like one device (with a limit of 8 axes). You can then assign axes 7 and 8 to the Engine 4 Mixture and Propeller Axes in the FSX Settings - Controls - Control Axes menus. They show up as Toe Brake Right and Left when you enter them.

And don't use Button and Axis Emulation On because it disables all of the DirectX access to the HOTAS system.

Ok have all the new axis set as shown, where is Button and Axis Emulation. I know I have seen it but where?

[stovall 1]

Ok have all the new axis set as shown, where is Button and Axis Emulation. I know I have seen it but where?

Ok, found it on the individual TMJ and made sure it was not checked. More to come. Now to set the micro stick to the proper axis.

Thanks, Tom

[stovall 1]

Ok, found it on the individual TMJ and made sure it was not checked. More to come. Now to set the micro stick to the proper axis.

Thanks, Tom

Horten 229, thanks for the help, I would have never figured that out. Years ago I had Falcon4 and used the microstick for just this function. She is working great now. I found the button emulation also in the main Cougar program at the bottom of the screen. Set it to off and all works well.

Thanks again, Tom

[timc 1]

Tim,

Here is a zipped Cab file ANAPG_68Debug.CAB.zip with a debug statement in it. Unzip it, put the cab in your panel folder, change the panel.cfg to reference ANAPG-68Debug!LMFD and run the F-16. it will print out the actual GENERAL ENG PROPELLER LEVER POSITION:3 in the upper left of the radar screen (kind-of between the blue radar scan limit line). So you can see what you controls are actualy doing. If nothing happens (i.e., it shows a 0), check your axis settings and make sure you have the propeller level position defined correctly. But let me know what it says.

Horten

Much appreciated - thanks for the debug file. I installed it into the panel folder and referred to it under guage 6 and 7 of the panel.cab. I've then assigned my axial controls to engine 3 propellor axis. But, unfortunately, no joy with the guage you added for me - it stays at 0. I've spent a few hours testing various things such as changing the assignent to other axial controls, changing the settings in my X52 profile configurator from axial control to bands and back again (just to be sure!) as well as changing the propellor axis to other engines. I'm really stuck as to why I get no movement yet had this working a while ago (before this latest version of the MFDs and the Event Driven Management Display.

Any suggestions would of course be gratefully received as I am keen to use axial control rather than buttons for antenna elevation as I'm running out of buttons but have a few spare axial controls kicking around!

I'd also be grateful to hear from any other X52 users as to whether/how they have got this working.

Timc

[JamesChams 108]

Horten 229, I have tried until blue in the face to program my Cougar to use the MicroStick to move my Cursor. Using Foxy and trying to assign the axis to my microstick. So far I have had no luck. If you have any idea of the assignment code to insert into my TMJ I would appreciate it. All my referances just do not show how to make the microstick axis programable to brake left and brake right.

Help, Thanks, Tom

Mr. Tom Stovall,

These are just the concerns that I've been addressing in the Manual for all of this.

I see Fred already posted this so your set but it will be in the manual.

************************************************************************

Gents/Ladies,

STATUS of MFD's: BETA 0.07

PS: Fred "Horton229", please check your PM tonight/tomorrow morning (time zone dependant).

Later!

[Horten229 0]

Horten

Much appreciated - thanks for the debug file. I installed it into the panel folder and referred to it under guage 6 and 7 of the panel.cab. I've then assigned my axial controls to engine 3 propellor axis. But, unfortunately, no joy with the guage you added for me - it stays at 0. I've spent a few hours testing various things such as changing the assignent to other axial controls, changing the settings in my X52 profile configurator from axial control to bands and back again (just to be sure!) as well as changing the propellor axis to other engines. I'm really stuck as to why I get no movement yet had this working a while ago (before this latest version of the MFDs and the Event Driven Management Display.

Any suggestions would of course be gratefully received as I am keen to use axial control rather than buttons for antenna elevation as I'm running out of buttons but have a few spare axial controls kicking around!

I'd also be grateful to hear from any other X52 users as to whether/how they have got this working.

Timc

The fact that the output stays at 0 indicates that the FSX variable is not getting the commands. Maybe the control is broken but it's probably something else. Have you defined the Engine.1, Engine.2 and Engine.3 in the appropriate aircraft.cfg file? Engine.3 (which is really Engine 4) isn't required for the elevation control but is required for the cursor axes. If those aren't defined, FSX ignores controls of just about all kinds for the undefined engine. And finding the right aircraft.cfg is sometimes difficult because there are so many of them. The livery description should be found in the aircraft.cfg file if you have the right one.

As to other controls, look at the first post in the series. There is a button for just about everything at this point (elevation was just added).

As to what has changed, the older versions of this gauge used engine 1 propellor axis which doesn't require an "engine" update - propeller axis controls just don't seem to do anything for jets.

[JamesChams 108]

Mr. Fred "Horten229",

You may need to modify the (HOTAS) Target Management Posting of the gauge which is listed it as...

// Event Driven Target Management

gauge14=DispMgmt!DispMgmt, 0,0,1,1

and should be ...

// Event Driven Target Management

gauge14=ANAPG-68!DispMgmt, 0,0,1,1

This might be the reason for some of the confusion.

Thanks!

[mangold 0]

I have updated the code (new cab file) in the original post of this thread and added some additional installation instrunctions.

However, if you are using "digital" controls (or no controls at all for Antenna Elevation) I have added some new capability for Antenna Elevation.

If you would like to implement Antenna elevation, you can now use Engine 3/4 failure (on/off) controls.

If you don't have the extra buttons, the Antenna Elevation will default to 0 and the Scan Bars to 24 allowing you to view the entire elevation range of the radar.

Thanks Mr horten. I think I understand that your AN/APG-68 extension serves the HOTAS concept (Hands on Stick...)

I know that some radar functions can be controlled by keypress, like antenna elevation or azimuth scan width.

What about remaining functions like moving acquisition cursor, target bugging/locking.

I have zero designing/coding experience nor ever used Falcon 4 software, I just try to understand.

regards mangold

[JamesChams 108]

Thanks Mr horten. I think I understand that your AN/APG-68 extension serves the HOTAS concept (Hands on Stick...)

I know that some radar functions can be controlled by keypress, like antenna elevation or azimuth scan width.

What about remaining functions like moving acquisition cursor, target bugging/locking.

I have zero designing/coding experience nor ever used Falcon 4 software, I just try to understand.

regards mangold

Yes, I see the problem; We (Fred & I) have already resolved these: Check it out BETAv0.08 [Current Modification]

But until you receive this please follow these instructions (Fred sent me).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Target Management

The TMS is a four-position, spring-loaded to center switch which controls target designation and data for the radar, electro-optical weapons, and various navigation/attack modes:

RWS: Command SAM

TWS: Designate Target

ACM: Boresight Scan

A2G: Designate Target

However, it should still work. And it works for me, but then maybe I know how its supposed to work and am not commicating it.

You are supposed to be able to move the cursor near the target and it will snap to the closest target near it (after you stop moving it for about 1/2 second). Then you can TMS-fwd (CABIN_SEATBELTS_ALERT_SWITCH_TOGGLE) to designate the target. Also, if you TMS-right (CABIN_NO_SMOKING_ALERT_SWITCH_TOGGLE) when there is no bugged target, it will auto select the closest target to the aircraft (not necessarily inside the cursor). You can move the cursor off of the target or unbug it by TMS-aft (TOGGLE_STRUCTURAL_DEICE). TMS-right in the original implementation cycled through the available targets and bugged them much like the original Aerosoft Radar mouse function. But that is not how the targeting on the AN/APG-68 works.

Enjoy!

[Horten229 0]

Thanks Mr horten. I think I understand that your AN/APG-68 extension serves the HOTAS concept (Hands on Stick...)

I know that some radar functions can be controlled by keypress, like antenna elevation or azimuth scan width.

What about remaining functions like moving acquisition cursor, target bugging/locking.

I have zero designing/coding experience nor ever used Falcon 4 software, I just try to understand.

regards mangold

As james said, there are already buttons for target bugging, unbugging and cycling bugged targets. But its somewhat more realistic and complex than the original Aerosoft implementation.

And there are buttons for cursor control (see the original post at the front of the topic). They are:

• Autobreak (increase) with repeat - the button for cursor right (azimuth)
• Autobreak (decrease) with repeat - the button for cursor left (azimuth)
• Governor beep (increase) with repeat - the button for target cursor up (range)
• Governor beep (decrease) with repeat - the button for target cursor down (range)

[mangold 0]

As james said, there are already buttons for target bugging, unbugging and cycling bugged targets. But its somewhat more realistic and complex than the original Aerosoft implementation.

And there are buttons for cursor control (see the original post at the front of the topic). They are:

• Autobreak (increase) with repeat - the button for cursor right (azimuth)
• Autobreak (decrease) with repeat - the button for cursor left (azimuth)
• Governor beep (increase) with repeat - the button for target cursor up (range)
• Governor beep (decrease) with repeat - the button for target cursor down (range)

Thankyou Mr Horten thankyou Mr Chams

I am lucky to report beeing able now

1) to move Acqisition curser in all directions by keypress

2) to designate a selected target

3) to go through the list for autoselecting nearest target

A giant leap forward in making use of AN/APG-68 radar by using keyboard.

Regards mangold

[Geraki 10]

Very cool ....lets see some A-A BVR and A-G symbols keep walking...!!!!!!!

[Geraki 10]

Where is the released patch for APG-68 Real HSD real APG-68 radar? i checked in the morning and it was somewhere here!!!??????

[timc 1]

The fact that the output stays at 0 indicates that the FSX variable is not getting the commands. Maybe the control is broken but it's probably something else. Have you defined the Engine.1, Engine.2 and Engine.3 in the appropriate aircraft.cfg file? Engine.3 (which is really Engine 4) isn't required for the elevation control but is required for the cursor axes. If those aren't defined, FSX ignores controls of just about all kinds for the undefined engine. And finding the right aircraft.cfg is sometimes difficult because there are so many of them. The livery description should be found in the aircraft.cfg file if you have the right one.

Fred

Well, its official: I am an idiot!

I've been flying the Nellis Aggressor bird and had changed the aircraft.cfg in a folder which contained Aggressor sub folders. As it turned out I had made changes to the wrong Aggressor! So, changes now made to the correct file and it all works perfectly. Many thanks for your assistance and for helping me on track to making the most of your (and James') enhancements.

One question, which is probably best directed at James; does the real F-16 have multicoloured symbology in the HSI?

Thanks again,

Timc

[JamesChams 108]

...One question, which is probably best directed at James; does the real F-16 have multicoloured symbology in the HSI?

Thanks again,

Timc

Mr. Timc

Yes, for many modes the HSD uses color symbology. You can see it in their manual; which I took screenshots of here:

**************************************************************************

Where is the released patch for APG-68 Real HSD real APG-68 radar? i checked in the morning and it was somewhere here!!!??????

Mr. Geraki,

FYI: No, there is NO release patch, at this time; It is ONLY in "BETA" status by ME ALONE and is NOT an Aerosoft Product in anyway. I posted pic's for you to see what I'm working on with Fred. When we are finished, we hope to give it to Mr. Finn (Aerosoft) for use in a Patch; if they decide to use it (for legal reasons) then they will release it accordingly. I CANNOT release their code freely and some of my work uses their code so, I hope this clears the matter.

EDIT: Here are some Pic's, you asked for, of what we've been able to achieve; Enjoy!

MFD's COLOR:

HSI (DUAL) in COLOR:

TCN/NAV1:

TCN/NAV2:

ILS:

GPS:

Authentic AN/APG-68 & HSD:

That's all folks.

[mangold 0]

Mr. Timc

Yes, for many modes the HSD uses color symbology. You can see it in their manual; which I took screenshots of here:

There are many F-16 manuals. Please a precise link to the manual you are referring to.

Regards mangold

[timc 1]

Gents

Testing last night (now that I've got the right aircraft.cfg file amended!) and the target cursor in the LMFD tracks to the top right corner of the screen with no input from me. I can move it down and left with my controls (button defined rather than axis) but on control release the cursor tracks its way back up to the corner.

I reinstalled the Debug version of the LMFD, RMFD and DisplayMgmt files that Fred kindly linked to in a previous post (to help with my antenna elevation issue). This worked fine and the cursor behaved as intended - ie, only moving on control input. Possibly an issue with the latest version of the CAB file?

timc

[JamesChams 108]

... Testing last night (now that I've got the right aircraft.cfg file amended!) and the target cursor in the LMFD tracks to the top right corner of the screen with no input from me. I can move it down and left with my controls (button defined rather than axis) but on control release the cursor tracks its way back up to the corner.

Mr. timc,

If you are using it as an Axis; Check your HOTAS CCP to make sure that the Microstick X and Y's Axis CENTER is set at 0 and NOT at the default 5 value. This should resolve this issue.

Good Luck!

[Horten229 0]

There are many F-16 manuals. Please a precise link to the manual you are referring to.

Regards mangold

The only real and useful manuals on the avionics I have found are the F-16 A/B Mid-Life Update, The Pilot's Guide Parts 1 and 2. I also have MCH 11-F16 Vol 3, PILOT OPERATIONAL PROCEDURES--F-16 and Vol 5, F-16 COMBAT AIRCRAFT FUNDAMENTALS which are mostly operation procedures and not avionics descriptions (but still good reading).

There also are a few Falcon4 manuals and presentations out there but I question their authenticity with respect to the real F-16. However, they seem pretty close.

If you have any other recommendations, I would be interested in knowing what they are?