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Bell 205 Huey


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Take a closer look...

Go on Joachim, time for a german cockpit in flightsim world. Very nice that the shot is from ETHS. A location near my home rolleyes.gif and for 4 years of my army time.

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Flight Sim has never been great at simulating Helo flight so I was suggesting that a simplified flight model that would make it easy to hold a precise hover and such be included to aid the newbies to helo flying. I remember when I first started flying helos it took quite a bit of getting used to. Then again, a lot of that was dependent on the realism settings.

I think you have to play a little bit with the FSX realistic settings. Try the Dodo 206 if you can and see what is possible.

Don´t panic Aerosoft, I buy your Huey, I promise!

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Hmm... Even with full right realism setting the stock FSX choppers hower almost hands and feet off. What could we do more easy? There is always the option to set them full left, though I never tried for choppers. I will do later this evening.

IF we would decide to do a more advanced flightmodel using an aditional system it surely can be switched off, so the standard model is used, but we are not sure about this at the moment.

Bests Joachim

I fly rotary in the sim 90& of the time and agree, the default FSX flight model is far to easy, so there is no need to dumb it down further. Looking forward to what you guys come up with. BTW the visual model is looking great!!

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It seems, we have to camps here. On the left side the guys, who want to get the chance to fly a decent looking chopper without the abillity to fly a more advanced one, and on the right the guys who want a decent looking chopper with advanced flight dynamics. I am pretty sure that this can't be matched.

So I am thinking about a splitted model, or better the abillity to switch off the advanced model or buy an extension maybe for a small fee for the advanced flight model, wich could be used as update for the basic thing (ALL "IF" WE DO SUCH A MODEL WHAT IS NOT SURE AT THE MOMENT)

There are some ideas in our heads, but it is all not that easy to decide.

Of course we want to pleasure as many people as possible, but you see, this is not easy, if you decide, to do a chopper for FSX :D

The technical note:

An advanced flight model would mean additional developement costs.

This is simply because FSX is not able to do some things I'd like to add.

So the only way, to get these things into the flight model is to program some kind of module or something, that simulates some effects into the simulation engine. This sounds complicated and it is. But this would give us the great advantage to add torque induces yaw for example, a very basic thing in a chopper. I don't want to add the really deep aerodynamic effects of a chopper, I just want to get a better feeling.

Cheers Joachim

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Make your thing Joachim, I´m sure it will be perfect for all.

Here my wishes to a helo model:

- realistic Start/Stop procedure

- realistic sound

- a not so simple up to realistic flight model

- a fantastic VC with many usable switches ( your screenshot show one ;-)

- a paintkit

- a detailed Model (cablecut and so on)

The new Cerasim 212 looks also interessting, love that model in FS9. In FSX the Dodo206 it at this moment my favored model.

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There already are "simple" models for FSX. I can only recommend the Nemethdesigns helicopters to those who whant to fly something simple, they look great and they are on a level of realism close to the standard FS choppers. Plus they already made a Huey. So I don't think Aerosoft needs to make another simple model, since there already are so many out on the market. However, what there is not, is a realistic flight model (except dodosim and maaaaybe cerasim), so this is where Aerosoft could and should fill the gap with their Huey.

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There already are "simple" models for FSX. I can only recommend the Nemethdesigns helicopters to those who whant to fly something simple, they look great and they are on a level of realism close to the standard FS choppers. Plus they already made a Huey. So I don't think Aerosoft needs to make another simple model, since there already are so many out on the market. However, what there is not, is a realistic flight model (except dodosim and maaaaybe cerasim), so this is where Aerosoft could and should fill the gap with their Huey.

I agree with this 100%. There are some very simple models out there, and although it may benefit Aerosoft to compete with those models, I doubt some people would buy it. On the other hand, if you offer something that no one else is offering, you are sure to get the custom of those people looking for that certain something. I've already bought the Cerasim Huey, why would I buy another Huey if it wasn't better than I already had?

Someone else has already said that their favourite at the moment is the Dodo 206. This is also true of myself. I love the realism of the Dodo, and believe it or not, once you get used to that realism, you're spoiled for anything else. I've bought about 4 or maybe 5 Nemeth helos, looking for that something special. I'm about to uninstall 3 of them today, because I simply won't fly them again. I like the Cerasim huey, but it doesn't "grab" me if you know what I mean. It has some very nice visuals, but the Aerosoft one looks better. If the flight dynamics are good, I'll will buy it, if you make it too simple, unfortunately I won't. I know I'm only one person, and I don't really count for much, but if you know what I want, maybe others will post they want the same.

Many times I have read in forums all over the place that people can't fly Helicopters because it's too hard, even the FSX default models. If you can't fly a Heli at full realisms, turn them down a bit, turn on "Auto rudder" that will help compensate for the Torque Yaw. You will always have to apply a slight forward pressure on the stick, that's the nature of Helos going forward. Holding a straight and level course still escapes me, but I'm not a Heli pilot for real. Check your gauges regularly, you'll see the turn coordinator is to one side most the time, use the rudder to keep it centred. Flying Helos is VERY hard on the wrists, make short flights and land often, give your wrists a break. I say wrists because I have a throttle with a rocker rudder so I use both hands constantly and my wrists ache something rotten after a while. But I love it, it's more fun to me than flying fixed wing. Newbies can cheat a little when landing, I did when I first started, land from an outside view so you can see what the heli is doing when you pull back to flare. Get your touch downs smooth and soft, then after a while try it from the cockpit, it's all a matter of practice at the end of the day.

Sorry going on a bit now, I'll stop right now.

Tony

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It´s the same discussion going on in the Airbus thread: hardcore (airliner) simmer vs. the rest. This discussion is absolutely senseless (in my eyes) because there´s no "right way" using FS.

Just my 2cents on this: if your Huey is just an easy to fly Huey (easier or as easy as the default FSX Bell 206) I won´t buy it (but many others will). If you´re going for a high realistic flight model, I´ll buy it for sure (but many others won´t). And if you´re going to make an easy to fly basic model with an additional small fee for more realistic flight dynamics, I´ll buy both parts (and many others a least the simple version). ;)

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Same for me, I will certain only buy your huey if I have this DODOsim feeling that it behaves right.

So here is my thought:

why not develop a software that will enhance the flight dynamic of your huey and all helos you will develop in the future?! What I mean is a kind of "heliforce" but that would work only with your helis. The "basic" helicopter product would then contain all the data necessary for this SW to compute the new flight dynamic. In this way, for each new heli that you'll develop, you won't be stucked with the limitations of FS X and you can concentrate on making both parts good. It is a little like the extra fees you proposed to get the enhanced flight dynamic, but generalised to the whole fleet. In my opinion, that's the only way you can go on to make profit of such a huge task.

Arnaud

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There is a very good third party programm which models some kind of real helicopter effects. It is called HeliForce by Simon Robbins. HeliForce is a software utility that augments Microsoft Flight Simulator’s helicopter flight

modelling to improve existing or add new flight dynamics qualities. I've never flown a real helicopter myself but I think this programm is really authenthic and I really like it.

Here is a video where you can see something about this programm.

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Hi there all,

First post here in this forums. I've been following it and just want to say a few things. I've been around helicopters all my life. I started on FS98 with the old Jetranger, that at the time was really difficult to control. Even harder then FS2004 or FSX default (being FSX default easier then FS2004). FSX rotorcrafts default are really a shame, talking about full realism. The only add-on that really gives some "close to" reality feeling about piloting a helicopter is DODOSim. I like CERA products a lot too. Obviously it's impossible ever (at least in my life era) to make a simulator that represents reality. Even professional simulations are not the same thing for much hydraulic pumps they have. With that said, obviously this Huey will not be the real thing, but it can be close to it. I guess my generation always thrill about the challenge there is in master a hard to control machine, like a helicopter. For that reason, in my time, we get some really good simulations. Things have evolved, and today, with all the tools, it's really hard to make a great simulation, but we have all we need to make it for the desktop PC.

What I see today is that if you don't master a thing in the first few "minutes" you just quick and pass to another thing that gives you the instant emotion until you get bored and pass to another thing. All this to say that in this days I refuse to pay for something that I already saw in the freeware world. So I really think that the payware world should give costumers a realistic simulation. It is possible to make it for FSX some great things using some external tools, so why bother making some really good visuals, 3D, sound, systems if you have a dumb flight model... That is why we have a realism bar on FSX, you just have to make a line saying, "if FSX realism bar equals 100% then use custom external FM programming else use internal FM".

Now about the time/money that you need for make that advance flight model. Well... Either you release one package with a higher cost justified by the higher quality or you release a low cost product with the non advance flight model.

As some guys said, DODOSim marked the advance, the turn around the corner of the payware helicopters flight model/system model and they can't "fly" anything else because only DODOSim get them the flight feeling they want. I just want to see more and more developers to go further to improve helicopter simulation and trick our brains to believe they are actually flying a helicopter. I know it's a niche, and maybe sometimes it doesn't payoff... But it's just a pleasure when you master the thing and just feel good that I am ready to pay more and get just that instead of just visual/3D/textures... And I just want to feel this with your Huey too.

Don't be too disappointed. My opinion is just that. My opinion. I know it is shared with most of the people I fly with but I'll not speak for them.

I like realism as much as the next simmer. I love it when something looks and behaves like the real aircraft/chopper (for sure you got the looks part right!), but when I can't handle it I will just steer clear of the project. We all know that flying a helicopter is a bit more complex then flying an aircraft. I love the Aerosoft Seahawk because of it's SAS, when I want it to hover somewhere I tell the system to handle that for me. I am more or less able to hover that one manually. As I said I can hover the default Bell in FSX moderatly well, but let me tell you that I am seen as some hot shot pilot amongst the friends I fly online with because I can. On sites like Hovercontrol one of the best comments a new chopper can get is that it is stable. That means more stable then the default helicopters. In fact the keyword to get good downloads there seems to be 'stable'.

I would love a good looking, full featured Huey. But if I can't fly it, it's just a static model. And honestly I can not handle anything more complex then the default choppers. I am sure there are people willing to invest the time to learn. So that's just my opinion.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you. I have been a Hovercontrol member for a long time and have been helping the community over there. And in my humble opinion you are not right about the "stable" thing. There are a lot of people over there that want the ultimate realism helicopter. There are always those guys that just want to fly and see the views, and yes, those guys want a easy to handle helicopter. And you will always have people that just like helicopters with the realism side, but this does not reflect by a bit the Hovercontrol community. So you cannot assume that in general Hovercontrol community wants "stable" helicopters. It's just not true. You have all kinds of opinions over there, but if you ask there what helicopter you should get, you always have the same answer. At least for now.

About HeliForce, it was made by Simon Robbins which was the same guy that programmed DODOSim 206 FSX. There is a tool that is being developed by Fred, it's like a helicopter physics library, the name is Helicopter Total Realism and it's in version Beta 0.5. More about HTR.

Sorry for the long post, just my ideas. Hope to see your add-on complete and be amazed with it.

Regards.

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I bet you will not find two Hueys with exactly the same instrumentation, not even in the highly organized and standardized German army. And even if it is dead standard flight crews will find ways to change it.

Hi,

congrats to your nice Cockpit.

There's one point I have to state though.

Currently there are 4 different instrument panel layouts in German Army and Air Force Hueys. The layout and instrumentation dependend on the version of each machine.

They're called NDV (both Army & Air Force), NTF (Army), FSM (Air Force) and IFR. Within those versions the instrumentation is identical. EXACTLY identical. At least since 71+19 has crashed which had a prototype panel installed.

If you need more information, fell free to contact me.

Cheers,

ROB

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No they aren't exactly the same. Sometimes one panel is at another location than the other, or there are instruments of other companies, or like in the past the change to the Mode S transponder.

The version I photografed for example still had the old transponder. I guess today the new one is build in.

Regarding flight physics:

I don't want to go to Dodos level. This is not possible. You would be charges with 70€ and need to wait at least 1 year longer for the bird. Only a handful people would buy it.

No I just want to have a flight model that feels like a chopper. As well as dodo does, but without all the advanced stuff around Dodo simulates very accurately. They have done a great job, and you can't reproduce it in five minutes. You know what I mean? If we had the realism depht of the Dodo Jet Ranger you could easily add the price of their Bird to ours. Of course some of you say, OK I would buy it, but it is simply too much for the majority.

I will report on this when we got a decision.

Best regards Joachim

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No they aren't exactly the same. Sometimes one panel is at another direction than the other, or there are instruments of other companies, or like in the past the change to the Mode S transponder.

The version I photografed for example still had the old transponder. I guess today the new one is build in.

Regarding flight physics:

I don't want to go to Dodos level. This is not possible. You would be charges with 70€ and need to wait at least 1 year longer for the bird. Only a handful people would buy it.

No I just want to have a flight model that feels like a chopper. As well as dodo does, but without all the advanced stuff around Dodo simulates very accurately. They have done a great job, and you can't reproduce it in five minutes. You know what I mean? If we had the realism depht of the Dodo Jet Ranger you could easily add the price of their Bird to ours. Of course some of you say, OK I would buy it, but it is simply too much for the majority.

I will report on this when we got a decision.

Best regards Joachim

Hi Joachim,

Please check PMs...

Cheers,

ROB

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It gets more and more likely, that we will get a more advanced flight model.

I can't say, what will be includet now, but it will be better than FSX standard for sure.

Attached a little screen I made while flying.

Joachim

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Hi Joachim,

I follow this project almost from the beginnig and I must say that you' re doing a great job! Your Huey looks mouthwatering. However when your screenshots show the cockpit and especially the instrument panel I get the impression that the black chosen might be a bit too much on the dark side. The deepest black (RGB 0, 0, 0) usually suppresses depth, whereas a very dark grey - for example 15, 15, 15 - also appears as black but still allows three dimensional structures to show up.

In the screenshot you posted this evening I can' t spot any structures at all ...

edit:

I wouldn' t have said so if your screeny was a night shot. As it is a shot taken during daylight I would expect some light on the panel as well so that the area around the instruments would appear textured. But in my eyes it appears like a plain black area.

Please correct me if I' m wrong!

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It IS dark, yes.

But it is intended to be. However it always depends a bit on monitor settings.

The screenshot is rain in late noon hours against the sun. It is normal that the planel appears dark then. You also see that the green light comes up rather strong. In daylight it is much weaker.

But I agree with you, it is dark.

The last word is not spoken in this yes, maybe I will do it a little bit brighter, but I am not sure. It looks great in action in my opinion. Screenshots show always only a bit of what you will get later.

Don't worry, I will do my best to make it as good looking as possible. :-)

Best regards Joachim

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The panel is dark, but not so dark that you can't tell the difference between objects on the panel and I can say that it looks perfectly fine in the simulator.

If you see no definition in the picture that was posted above, I'd strongly suggest reviewing your monitor settings. I've checked that image from my PC at work today and my iPod, on both it looks fine with plenty of definition.

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Wow, this bird is turning out really well! I've been following it pretty much since it started, and I must say, I'm really excited about this one. And an advanced flight model to go with the stunning visuals? WOOHOO!! I will DEFINITELY be buying.

If I may make one suggestion, I think it would be really cool if you made an Air America version of it. Their paint job looked really good, and they did some amazing flying.

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The last word is not spoken in this yes, maybe I will do it a little bit brighter, but I am not sure. It looks great in action in my opinion. Screenshots show always only a bit of what you will get later.

Don't worry, I will do my best to make it as good looking as possible. :-)

I didn' t ever worry :) - and I am very much looking forward to the release of it!

@ Nick C: I' ll purchase an iPod and double check that B)

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