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Am 1.12.2022 um 11:12 schrieb Ha_Ma:

But the noise from moving propeller levers is relly horrible! There seems to be one short soundfile that sounds like moving the lever quickly from min to max. It sounds like someone is scratching over a surface. But when we pilots move our levers slowly, it seems that this one soundfile is playing repeadingly untill we stop moving our levers. It sounds like "scrtch-scrtch-scrtch....". For me it would be better to have noiseless levers in the VC as this one.

Many, many thanks for fixing this! 

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Ok, here we go:

 

Twin Otter Updated sound test 2.0 - Twitch

first 20 min is internal and external sound test, last 20 min is a test flight.

 

previous "negative points":

1) if you start engine 2 first, after starting up in non/feathered way, the engine sound goes mute after a couple of seconds while the engine just keeps spinning

Solved

2) I bound the prop-levers to a control-wheel on my joystick, while making adjustments it gives a non-smooth sound

Solved, I guess by just deleting that sound

3) when shutting down and putting the throttlelevers to the off position, they “start” a separate sound without a smooth transition from the current soundlevel

Partially solved, Sound has been turned down, but still no smooth transition

4) touchdown sound of the wheels are to loud and to artificial in my opinion.

Partially solved, Sound has been turned down, but still a quite artificial sound

 

New issues:

1) when shutting turning off DC master switch, lot of background noise 00.42.07 - 00.43.38

 

 

 

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb phjaap:

touchdown sound of the wheels are to loud and to artificial in my opinion.

Have you ever flown in a Twotter to compare with reailty? 

So far as i know the Twotter has quite poor noise cancelling in the cabin. So maybe the loudness of this sound is good.

I can not compare as i have never been flying in a Twotter.

I like the soundset as it is now.

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  • Aerosoft

As Ha_Ma said, we gladly take comments, but they have to be based on real experiences. And in this case we would also need to know what kind of tires are used as they differ a lot on the amount of sound. Our sound set is based on standard tires on a smooth runway. 

There is zero sound dampening in the floor of a Twin Otter. 

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I think this is great!  This is the meaty update that people have been waiting a year for!  After the Twotter was first released, I tediously developed a legacy FSX-style sound pack for myself while my family was sick with COVID.  I spent more time on that item than I would ever imagine I could spend on FS, but FINALLY I am happy to say I no longer need it.

 

I don't completely agree with the way you are choosing to qualify user feedback.....however I will offer the following: I have not been able to fly or fly in a twotter despite my best efforts (we planned a holiday in the Caribbean that included a segment on Winair...pandemic again) but I am a freelance corporate jet pilot IRL, but I have also flown King Air series, MU-2, Tucano T.1 and been a passenger in various turboprops.

 

-The pitch of propeller sounds is not matched between interior & exterior.   The interior sounds are lower pitch than exterior, but the EXterior pitch sounds more correct to me...except at 76% NP where I think both need to be slightly lower pitch.

 

-Transitions in/out of feather are not smooth.  OUT of feather is the least graceful.  The "flop-flop-flop" sound of a feathered propeller is proportional to RPM, as is any propeller-produced sound.  When you hear a prop unfeathering, the "flop-flop" speeds up and cross-fades with a pitch range where it is briefly pretty quiet, before reaching the idle speed.

 

-Turbine sounds could be about 15% lower during flight.  Prop sound should be strongly dominant in flight.

 

-There is no wind sound that I can perceive.  Twotter is unpressurized, minimally insulated, with big car doors in the and sliding windows in the cockpit.  There should definitely be wind sound in the cockpit.

 

-Beta-reverse sounds could be run through a low-pass filter.  The hissing quality of those samples hides the realistic reverse sounds.  Otherwise a good improvement.

 

-NP=76% sounds are not quite phase-synced...close but not exact.  If I had a 6-lever throttle device, it wouldn't matter (I could sync props manually) but unfortunately I & many others don't.  Creates a bit of ear fatigue during cruise for headphone users.

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6 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

Do you have actual experience on the aircraft? It is very specific in it's sounds.

No.  But I do not agree that a Twin Otter is "very specific" in it's sound.  I explained my qualifications in my post.  Is is a twin engine, PT6A powered turboprop, with 3-blade propellers.  It is unpressurized and minimally insulated so it is loud inside.  There is nothing I can not grasp about that.

 

Hopefully you can at least agree with my simple observations such as the pitch of the prop sound should not be different inside than outside...it's scientific principle.  And there should be wind sound in the cockpit.

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  • Aerosoft

Okay so how much experience do you have with PT6A engines with prop aimed directly at the cockpit?   I mean, you state there is not a lot specific, that indicates at least some solid experience with how other aircraft, with that engine,  sound in the cockpit.  You might not agree but you do so while stating that you have zero experience. 

 

For now this is the sound set we have and there are no immediate plans to update it.

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You are perhaps a little bit confrontational Mathijs... 😉 However as you state the Twin Otter is a very different animal compared to other turboprops. On the same trip I was once a passenger on a King Air and then on several flights with a Twin Otter and they are as different as can be. The King Air is a comfortable experience that feels luxurious while the Twin Otter is a gritty, noisy experience. Personally I could not compare the two.

 

From what I remember of the real thing (as a passenger) the current Twin Otter sound set is very good, and if it became more "real" then it would be really uncomfortable to fly it and we don't want that. The pilots experience is of course different since they also wear noise cancelling headphones, so it would be difficult for me to compare properly.

 

I am happy now though. 🙂

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54 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said:

Okay so how much experience do you have with PT6A engines with prop aimed directly at the cockpit?   I mean, you state there is not a lot specific, that indicates at least some solid experience with how other aircraft, with that engine,  sound in the cockpit.  You might not agree but you do so while stating that you have zero experience. 

 

For now this is the sound set we have and there are no immediate plans to update it.

That's too bad that you've just decided to give up on this after a year's work.  This is the most requested update for the Twotter, you asked for feedback, and now you're arbitrarily shutting it down because you won't consider reasonable feedback from a person who understands the scientific principles that explain how an aircraft generates noise. 

 

So what if I had just made a new account, told you that I am an astronaut and DHC factory test pilot who flew the DHC-6 on its first flight, wrote the same post, you would have accepted the same feedback?  Do you see what I'm saying?

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I must agree with C525B here.

For me: I dont have any rl experience in the Twin otter.

That being said, I do have experience in other aircraft and even with that put aside, I found in my first testing of the new sound set, very basic flaws and bugs (some still not solved) that even a non pilot can pick out.

I have full confidence you guys work with a dedicated team that tries their best to get the best out of it.

But when you depend on a pro, real life experience, testteam that can't even filter out these kind of bugs, I would seriously reconsider the requirements of the testers or at maybe include members who don't have the rl experience and apparently focus on other items than the real pro's.

 

But hey, Iam not in the dev/beta/management team from aerosoft, and you know probably best how to run your own team/company.

We are just here to provide you with our honest experiences (in testing and real life flying), and if that doesnt match your/the teams opinion feel free to let us know.

And yes, you are completely right if you think that a non rl experienced pilot cant give you the feedback that a rl pilot can.

But in that case please dont underestimate the power of the internet with all her data, audio and video recordings and most of all the experience and knowledge of all the people that is shared on this and other fora.

 

I can imagine this twin otter has been a bit of a headache file for the team, and you want to close this case asap.

But please keep in mind, that a lot of us deeply care about this product and would love to see it finished the same way you see your (testing)team: 

Professional

 

 

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I do agree with C525B; I saw the first video dropped here of the updated sounds, and my immediate first take was the difference in pitch (frequency) of the sound between the inside and outside. For this to happen, the prop would have to spin at different RPMs depending on whether the user is inside or outside (Schrödinger’s Propeller)

 

There’s the subjective part to the sound design that I know I can’t judge because I’m not a Twotter pilot. Then there’s the objective part of it which is based in scientific principle. Different sound pitches is non-physical; it doesn’t require experience in a Twotter cockpit to understand that the propeller can’t generate one frequency inside and one outside unless they’re modes of each other  (and in this case they are not)

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  • Deputy Sheriffs
14 hours ago, C525B said:

So what if I had just made a new account, told you that I am an astronaut and DHC factory test pilot who flew the DHC-6 on its first flight, wrote the same post, you would have accepted the same feedback?  Do you see what I'm saying?

He would simple ask for a proof that can be verified. That's why he asked several pages ago for people flying the Twotter in real life.

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On 12/19/2022 at 11:12 AM, C525B said:

So what if I had just made a new account, told you that I am an astronaut and DHC factory test pilot who flew the DHC-6 on its first flight, wrote the same post, you would have accepted the same feedback?  Do you see what I'm saying?

You would somehow be accused of copyright infringement lol 

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I have this "crackling sound" (like a door opening) when airborne that I think was mentioned before using the new updated sound set. But I couldn't find out what the solution is. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

Apart from that I love the Twinotter :)

 

Best regards Jan

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  • 1 month later...

Now that the new sound set is availible, I could hear in some youtube videos, that (for me) the main problem still exists: The pitches of the sound files STILL don't blend into each other at all, not even nearly!! I hardly bought it now on sale in a confidence that it must have been fixed with the long awaited and needed sound update. But then I resisted after learning that all turbine and rpm chances sound so bad. But how can it be that such simple things still don't work? And is that please being fixed anytime?

In the FSX and P3d versions, this DID work with the sound of the Twin Otter. There was even a person who fixed that at flightsim.to, but for the "old" sound version. He said he won't upgrade it anymore because it's the job of those who earn the money with the sales. And I can really understand him. So, I can't even be sure that it works with the new sound set.

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19 hours ago, BudSpencer said:

The pitches of the sound files STILL don't blend into each other at all, not even nearly!!

 

It's hard to know what you're referring to unless you post some examples. I think the new sound is much improved. I posted a link to a test flight earlier.

 

 

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Well, I mean the transition from idle to full thrust...

 

...which is audible in the following video from 1:50 (inside) and from 2:23 (outside):

 

 

And here is the same situation with the mod by a flightsim.to member for the old sound set: Outside from 2:26 and inside from 3:34

 

And the latter one spools up the sound by transitioning the sound file in a way that the following file corresponds with the tone pitch of the previous one, so that they seem to melt into each other - like they do in reality. At the same time, also the volume of such 2 files crossfade into each other.

At your sound, ONLY the volumes fade into each other, the tone pitch slightly changes, but is nowhere near transitioning into each other. That makes the impression that several sound files are just "played" after each other, instead of creating a smooth spool up sound. The consequences are also, that there are rpm ranges where two sounds with two tone pitches (instead of one) sound together. Judging from the videos, this happens at rpm ranges shortly above idle. That mainly counts for the prop sounds. The turbine sounds are less of a problem, as they seem to run smooth.

 

In FSX/P3d, this could be solved by clever seettings of the "rparams" in the sound.cfg. Here's en example:

 

[PROP.1.04]
filename=XXX
flags=4
viewpoint=1
rparams=0.070650, 0.425500, 1.000000, 1.212700

(...)

 

...which would translate like this:

At 7.0650% of the prop rpm, the sound file "XXX" is played at 42.5500% of its original pitch.

And at 100.0000% of the prop rpm, the file "XXX" is played at 121.2700% of its original pitch.

 

So, you had 2 defined points to tell the sim the ratio on how fast or how slow to increase or decrease the tone pitch of the corresponding file, depending on the defined rpm setting. If you ignore the fact that the "heard" and the "measured" tone pitches are logarithmic (which doesen't matter at all here), there was a simple linear function between rpm and tone pitch. Now since FS2000 or so, I believe, you don't have only one file that can be changed in pitch, but usually 4 or 5 files, which are the recordings of the real engine at different stages of thrust / rpm. And to make it sound like one engine spooling up and down, and not like 4 or 5 engine records, it's vital to get the sim merge them together again. And this is done by setting the second and the fourth value of the rparams in a way that the pitch of the tones of one single file exactly match to the one of the next sound file. It might be possible that there are programs for that, but it can be made by simply trying out again and again, and always analyse the interval between the two files that should merge into each other, until there is no more interval. So, quite a bit of patience is needed, but I don't have to tell that to a software developer ;) That's at least what I found out this logic to be, and it has worked so far in all cases.

 

The only problem now is, that I don't know the exact structure of those configuration files in MSFS. And I've seen that in many cases of aircraft addons, that there is no "editible" sound folder or sound.cfg at all. But it would make me wonder if the principle would be much different in MSFS. At least the developer of the sound mod must have done something exactly like this.

 

I and also some other users have already commented this problem shortly after release in these forums. But as none of our comments have been picked up, I didn't follow the threads any further, but hoped that this problem would have been solved with the sound update. And that was not the case.

 

Best regards,

Dominik

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1 hour ago, BudSpencer said:

Well, I mean the transition from idle to full thrust...

 

Well okay, I can hear small differences in the examples you give, but I can't say if it's right or wrong. I can see that the change of tone in the first vid is a bit faster, but it matches the rate at which the prop RPM spins up. And it's not that dissimilar to what you see in this real world video at 1:26. Maybe it's just a reflection of how fast you add the power.

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vor 35 Minuten schrieb MarkHurst:

 

Well okay, I can hear small differences in the examples you give, but I can't say if it's right or wrong. I can see that the change of tone in the first vid is a bit faster

 

It isn't faster, but abrupt. The tone hardly changes, but a new tone begins. That's the point.

 

vor 35 Minuten schrieb MarkHurst:

but it matches the rate at which the prop RPM spins up.

Sorry, but simply no!

 

vor 36 Minuten schrieb MarkHurst:

And it's not that dissimilar to what you see in this real world video at 1:26. Maybe it's just a reflection of how fast you add the power.

Yes, it is dissimilar by sounding "unnatural", because it doesn't spool up, but it just fades in. And no, it does not depend on how fast you add power.

 

It's just like trying to slide up or down a staircase instead of a slide.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So, it it possible at the new sound set to edit the values of the sound configuration file as a customer? Or is it coded in a way that customers can't access any configuration files?

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  • Aerosoft
On 3/5/2023 at 1:59 AM, BudSpencer said:

So, it it possible at the new sound set to edit the values of the sound configuration file as a customer? Or is it coded in a way that customers can't access any configuration files?

 

Depends on where you bought it.

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So I should ask it the other way: Where should I buy it, so that I can access the config file? I didn't buy it so far, not until I can make sure I can fix the sounds for myself.

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vor 10 Stunden schrieb BudSpencer:

So I should ask it the other way: Where should I buy it, so that I can access the config file? I didn't buy it so far, not until I can make sure I can fix the sounds for myself.

Eehm. So you don't own the Twotter yet and know that you will change the soundset before you have heard it?

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