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Please, don't let this aircraft die!


Martín Agua

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Hi, I am a huge CRJ lover in real life and I am VERY concerned about Aerosoft's CRJ for MSFS. The lack of improvements and upgrades needed for the aircraft is horrible, and its current overprice is totally absurd....

 

Let's review the current 3rd party airliner market for MSFS; PMDG has their DC-6 for 55€ and their 737NG for 65€, Just Flight has their 146 for 60€, Leonardo has their MD-80 for 90€ and Fenix has their A320 for 59€. All of them offer a service and product that is light years above what Aerosoft offers for their CRJ, forcing you to buy the 550/700 for 50€ in order to have access to buy the more popular 900/1000 for another 20€. An armed robbery if you ask me.

 

The current popularity of the CRJ is practically zero; if you search "Aerosoft CRJ" on Twitter you will see that there are barely a dozen tweets in the last 6 months, nobody streams it on Twitch or uploads videos on Youtube, it is practically unseen on flying networks like IVAO or VATSIM, on all Discord servers it is recommended to avoid buying it and the aircraft and Aerosoft are mocked... The plane is practically dying.

 

This is very simple, you want to sell the CRJ at 50+20€? Well, then offer a service and product on par with what PMDG, Just Flight, Leonardo or Fenix offer for similar prices. If not, just offer your product at a reasonable price like DC Designs did with their Concorde (35€). Paying more than 40 or 50€ for the whole CRJ pack (550/700/900/1000) is a bad joke. While other developers understood that MSFS represents a much larger market than all the previous ones that preceded it in flight simulation and brought out their high fidelity aircrafts at a reduced price, it seems that Aerosoft only cared about bringing out their aircraft first and forgot about everything else. Now their reputation will hardly recover in this market if they don't take action.

 

And don't tell me "upgrades are on the way”. We have heard that for centuries, it's too late for that! Aerosoft has to react and make the CRJ competitive again in today's market or the aircraft is doomed to die in oblivion.

 

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Yes I am going to say we are testing a rather large update, it is simply not ready.

 

Pricing wise, keep in mind that the CRJ was released quite a while back, if we would release it now we would probably price it different and we will discuss if the price needs to be changed to match the current market. As sales are still very good (certainly on the marketplace) it might just be we need the update, not a change in pricing.  When it was released the price seemed to please almost everybody and was most certainly not seen as 'armed robbery'. For weeks on end it was the best selling product on the Marketplace (where everybody does most sales). 

 

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2 minutes ago, jstnj said:

(deleted to let Mathijs give AS's plans. we shall see..)

 

The plan is simply to get the update done as soon as possible.  It is being worked on every day but competes with other projects. I can only say that we are doing everything we possibly can to speed this up.

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5 minutes ago, jstnj said:

AS released some fixes yes, but then ~6-8 months ago this project clearly got de-prioritized. It's a shame because it had such a head start, and great potential. It appears to me as though AS were only interested in porting this from their P3D CRJ, adding PBR textures, and finally putting it on life support, selling as many copies of it with no updates

This has backfired actually, if you read any recent discussion about the CRJ on forums/social media, the community is well aware that the plan has been virtually abandoned (until that long promised update that is ;)) and discourages people from buying it.

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5 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

Pricing wise, keep in mind that the CRJ was released quite a while back, if we would release it now we would probably price it different and we will discuss if the price needs to be changed to match the current market. As sales are still very good (certainly on the marketplace) it might just be we need the update, not a change in pricing.  When it was released the price seemed to please almost everybody and was most certainly not seen as 'armed robbery'. For weeks on end it was the best selling product on the Marketplace (where everybody does most sales). 

Not that my vote counts for anything, but I'd much rather you continue to charge a premium price but improve the quality and depth to match. I think the market has demonstrated that people are willing to invest in high-fidelity aircraft.

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congrats on the continued work with the CRJ.  Like others, I have no problem with the a/c.  I thought it was priced at the time quite reasonably, but I too welcome updates to improve its performance, handling etc...... NOW.....FOR THE TWOTTER?   is the same happening there?  This DOES interest me a lot. I really admire the work that went into this one. It flies well, it looks fantastic....as far as I'm concerned, it's ONLY the sound problems that I'd like to see fixed. Maybe others will want more....but the essence of the fix is just the sound.

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3 hours ago, Transair27 said:

congrats on the continued work with the CRJ.  Like others, I have no problem with the a/c.  I thought it was priced at the time quite reasonably, but I too welcome updates to improve its performance, handling etc...... NOW.....FOR THE TWOTTER?   is the same happening there?  This DOES interest me a lot. I really admire the work that went into this one. It flies well, it looks fantastic....as far as I'm concerned, it's ONLY the sound problems that I'd like to see fixed. Maybe others will want more....but the essence of the fix is just the sound.

That seems like a topic for a different thread in a different subforum.
 

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3 hours ago, Transair27 said:

congrats on the continued work with the CRJ.  Like others, I have no problem with the a/c.  I thought it was priced at the time quite reasonably, but I too welcome updates to improve its performance, handling etc...... NOW.....FOR THE TWOTTER?   is the same happening there?  This DOES interest me a lot. I really admire the work that went into this one. It flies well, it looks fantastic....as far as I'm concerned, it's ONLY the sound problems that I'd like to see fixed. Maybe others will want more....but the essence of the fix is just the sound.

It adds nothing to a conversation to say it has no problems when a quick glance at the forums would immediately show otherwise.  This applies to both planes equally.

 

The CRJ is still a very serviceable and enjoyable aircraft as it currently is, but there are many things that need adjusting and the cost of being one of the early arrivals to a new platform is the increased time spent supporting it as it grows and evolves around you.

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Am 25.5.2022 um 14:05 schrieb Martín Agua:

Let's review the current 3rd party airliner market for MSFS; PMDG has their DC-6 for 55€ and their 737NG for 65€, Just Flight has their 146 for 60€, Leonardo has their MD-80 for 90€ and Fenix has their A320 for 59€. All of them offer a service and product that is light years above what Aerosoft offers for their CRJ, forcing you to buy the 550/700 for 50€ in order to have access to buy the more popular 900/1000 for another 20€. An armed robbery if you ask me.

Well not quite...so let me share my 2ct:

PMDG 737-700 has a promo launch price of 65€ (+800 variant +900 variant + ... variant),

all others offer you 1 ACFT roughly at 70€.

 

With the CRJ you get 4 variants for 70€....so let's be fair in comparison.

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On 5/30/2022 at 8:04 AM, GEK_the_Reaper said:

Well not quite...so let me share my 2ct:

PMDG 737-700 has a promo launch price of 65€ (+800 variant +900 variant + ... variant),

all others offer you 1 ACFT roughly at 70€.

 

With the CRJ you get 4 variants for 70€....so let's be fair in comparison.

Math and logic are lost on many in today's world. 

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On 5/30/2022 at 2:04 PM, GEK_the_Reaper said:

Well not quite...so let me share my 2ct:

PMDG 737-700 has a promo launch price of 65€ (+800 variant +900 variant + ... variant),

all others offer you 1 ACFT roughly at 70€.

 

With the CRJ you get 4 variants for 70€....so let's be fair in comparison.

 

Not really true, is it - the 146 comes with three different sized passenger variants ( ignoring the cosmetically different military ones - I haven't found any new cockpit systems for those ) , effectively two freighters which I suspect are using the same FM but I haven't tested - and why wouldn't they - and  a partially implemented FMS. It shouldn't actually have *any* FMS really :). I don't know if they've promised the Avro RJ versions ( which have a more modern cockpit ), but those might be an additonal cost like the bigger CRJs were if they're happening at all. JF did try and price higher until there was some backlash, but now they look quite well placed. So, basically, they offer an equivalent to the CRJ if you've got all the CRJs.  Price is not massively dissimilar. The aircraft *are* quite massively dissimilar.

 

PMDG offer you a plane, and then they're going to offer you a slightly different length plane for the same price again, and so on. The other two only offer one airframe right now. I think Fenix is the only one of all the developers ( including Aerosoft ) who offer a completely new product?

 

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@Richard Dastardly I don't realy understand what you are trying to tell me...

I argued with the OP because he put other DEV in comparison forgetting to sum up their price tags.

As you said here: 

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Richard Dastardly:

PMDG offer you a plane, and then they're going to offer you a slightly different length plane for the same price again, and so on.

was exactly what I tried to explain in my post because the OP compared 4 CRJ variants to ONE PMDG variant so I added 65 (for the 700) + the price for the 800 + the price for the 900 + ... (because we don't exactly know the price tags on those). So you will definately end up paying more then 70€ for 4 variants.

Also the 146 comes in 3 (not 4 variants) and has the same price tag as the CRJ.

...

So I think you missunderstood the point I was trying to make.

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5 hours ago, GEK_the_Reaper said:

@Richard Dastardly I don't realy understand what you are trying to tell me...

I argued with the OP because he put other DEV in comparison forgetting to sum up their price tags.

As you said here: 

was exactly what I tried to explain in my post because the OP compared 4 CRJ variants to ONE PMDG variant so I added 65 (for the 700) + the price for the 800 + the price for the 900 + ... (because we don't exactly know the price tags on those). So you will definately end up paying more then 70€ for 4 variants.

Also the 146 comes in 3 (not 4 variants) and has the same price tag as the CRJ.

...

So I think you missunderstood the point I was trying to make.

 

Call it elaboration then - and if you're going to call the CJR550 & 700 functionally different aircraft, then JF give you more than three. This is quibbling about nothing though. Ironically for all the complaints about the CRJ's FMS, it - after testing - seems tunctionally better than the 146s ( other than holds, cough ) as well as having more features.

 

I want to drop in that *of course noone is streaming the CRJ right now* - in the last month there's been four new full-featured airliners, and some people have been flying the CRJ for over a year! you'd have to be wedded to it to not want a change for a while.

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16 hours ago, Richard Dastardly said:

 

Not really true, is it - the 146 comes with three different sized passenger variants ( ignoring the cosmetically different military ones - I haven't found any new cockpit systems for those ) , effectively two freighters which I suspect are using the same FM but I haven't tested - and why wouldn't they - and  a partially implemented FMS. It shouldn't actually have *any* FMS really :). I don't know if they've promised the Avro RJ versions ( which have a more modern cockpit ), but those might be an additonal cost like the bigger CRJs were if they're happening at all. JF did try and price higher until there was some backlash, but now they look quite well placed. So, basically, they offer an equivalent to the CRJ if you've got all the CRJs.  Price is not massively dissimilar. The aircraft *are* quite massively dissimilar.

 

PMDG offer you a plane, and then they're going to offer you a slightly different length plane for the same price again, and so on. The other two only offer one airframe right now. I think Fenix is the only one of all the developers ( including Aerosoft ) who offer a completely new product?

 

I was unaware that when Fenix releases an A321 or A319 it will be included with the purchase of the A320.  I sure hope so that way I can get a slightly smaller and slightly larger aircraft without paying slightly more money.  I highly doubt this will work that way.  

 

Every product is completely new when it is new.  I am not sure when the modifier "completely" should be dropped.  I would be ok if about 6 hours after release, it was called new instead of completely new. 

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9 minutes ago, Crabby said:

I was unaware that when Fenix releases an A321 or A319 it will be included with the purchase of the A320.  I sure hope so that way I can get a slightly smaller and slightly larger aircraft without paying slightly more money.  I highly doubt this will work that way.  

 

Every product is completely new when it is new.  I am not sure when the modifier "completely" should be dropped.  I would be ok if about 6 hours after release, it was called new instead of completely new. 

Was I implying anything about marketing decisions? I was merely stating what is. If you want to use it as a platform to take umbrage at others, leave me out of it.

 

"Completely new" as in "not ported in from other platforms" - irrespective of how much work there is involved. JF's 146, the CRJ, the 737, the MD-80 were not created from scratch for MSFS.

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2 hours ago, Richard Dastardly said:

Was I implying anything about marketing decisions? I was merely stating what is. If you want to use it as a platform to take umbrage at others, leave me out of it.

 

"Completely new" as in "not ported in from other platforms" - irrespective of how much work there is involved. JF's 146, the CRJ, the 737, the MD-80 were not created from scratch for MSFS.

Completely new.  Another thing in the eye of the beholder. 

1. Why is it perceived as "wrong" if something exists that can be used on a new platform?  Is there then an inherently implied "it's not good" philosophy? When my company develops a new radio, we utilize as much proven successful components and code as possible.'

2. What Fenix did new was to use an older than MSFS simulation system, ProSim, and then inject what is basically visuals into MSFS.  I guess it could be called a new approach.  Good?  Depends.  For me yes, it runs very smoothly.  However, using the Fenix has tripled the number of total CTDs I have experienced since MSFS release. For others it is a CPU nightmare.  Instead of new, I would call this "different". 

 

Improving an existing system for use in a different application is actually a smart move and the implication that it is somehow wrong, does not pass the logic test. 

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20 hours ago, Richard Dastardly said:

 

Not really true, is it - the 146 comes with three different sized passenger variants ( ignoring the cosmetically different military ones - I haven't found any new cockpit systems for those ) , effectively two freighters which I suspect are using the same FM but I haven't tested - and why wouldn't they - and  a partially implemented FMS. It shouldn't actually have *any* FMS really :). I don't know if they've promised the Avro RJ versions ( which have a more modern cockpit ), but those might be an additonal cost like the bigger CRJs were if they're happening at all. JF did try and price higher until there was some backlash, but now they look quite well placed. So, basically, they offer an equivalent to the CRJ if you've got all the CRJs.  Price is not massively dissimilar. The aircraft *are* quite massively dissimilar.

 

PMDG offer you a plane, and then they're going to offer you a slightly different length plane for the same price again, and so on. The other two only offer one airframe right now. I think Fenix is the only one of all the developers ( including Aerosoft ) who offer a completely new product?

 

RJs are coming but they will be separate purchases.  However, JF have said several times they are working on a custom FMS for the 146 that will be coming in an update.

 

Not to start us going down a rabbit hole, just for the purposes of making comparisons.

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I hope Aerosoft are willing to put the necessary time into the CRJ update(s) because the potential to be the best regional airliner currently available is certainly there IMHO. The visuals are superb, performance is great, and she's super fun to hand fly. She just needs the rough edges smoothed out and a few features tacked on (such as terrain radar, which I know is coming.)

 

This is one of those products where I'm about 2 steps away from constantly offering gushing recommendations to people who are curious about buying a new addon aircraft, but I can't because it just has those few issues holding it back. It's so close to being on the level of what I consider to be the absolute top tier of payware addons available for any sim, not just MSFS.

 

Please, Aerosoft, give the CRJ the attention it deserves, and I'm sure you'll reap the rewards! :)

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I am astounded that anyone thinks that AS is somehow going to abandon the CRJ.  I have been simming since before AS was even dreamed of and I have not once seen them abandon a product.  Folks need to realize that they don't control the timelines, no matter how much crying, begging or witching they do.  Frankly it's almost pathetic.  If you need drama go watch the Depp verdict. 

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I am also looking forward to a CRJ update. It's quite a nice airplane but it needs some polishing here and there and it is some shame that it is behind its potential. I would like to fly it but specially the "knob-issues" drive me crazy.

Therefore it's good to hear that this plane is not "dead".

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What this plane needs is more than what the divided attention of one lone developer seems to be able to provide unfortunately.

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3 hours ago, CRJay said:

What this plane needs is more than what the divided attention of one lone developer seems to be able to provide unfortunately.

Yes, I've been thinking for some time that Hans needs an apprentice.  From what I can tell Digital Aviation has a long history in flight sim and it's obvious Hans knows what he's doing, but is MSFS too complex for a single, mortal man?

 

Magic 8 ball says: Try Again Later.

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