Question for RL CRJ Pilots

[jay jay 93]

I hope the mods will permit me to post this, since we have a few real life CRJ pilots on this forum.   I'm trying to replicate my CRJ flying as close as possible to the real thing.   I still have a long ways to go but I had a couple of questions - 

 

When flying a "visual" approach, do you still utilize the ILS (when available) / auto pilot or do you hand fly the entire approach with no ILS guidance?

 

If you find yourself floating down the runway, how do you get the jet onto the ground?  Just throttle back and wait?  Or am I the only person who consistently flies well past the ideal touchdown location.

 

Last - do you have any approaches you find to be particularly challenging (or enjoyable)?   Always looking for something new to fly.

 

Thank you!

[Herman 1591]

Your questions are good ones and you're welcome to post them. I'm not a RL CRJ pilot (Gulfstream II and III only) but I can suggest a partial answer for your first question. It's considered good practice to "back-up" a visual approach with any nav guidance available. See this reference to the (US) FAA Aeronautical Information Manual, which states, "When conducting visual approaches, pilots are encouraged to use other available navigational aids to assist in positive lateral and vertical alignment with the runway." Here's a link.

[jay jay 93]

7 hours ago, Herman said:

Your questions are good ones and you're welcome to post them. I'm not a RL CRJ pilot (Gulfstream II and III only) but I can suggest a partial answer for your first question. It's considered good practice to "back-up" a visual approach with any nav guidance available. See this reference to the (US) FAA Aeronautical Information Manual, which states, "When conducting visual approaches, pilots are encouraged to use other available navigational aids to assist in positive lateral and vertical alignment with the runway." Here's a link.

Thank you sir!   

[RF pilot 35]

I have found after a lot of trial and error, the best way to land the CRJ and avoid floating or having a hard landing. Very important to be stabalised on approach, and to keep the speed precisely on the VREF.  As soon as you cross the runway threshold, slightly bring the throttle back, but not all the way. Keep a bit of throttle until you are around 20ft or so above the runway and only then bring the throttle back to idle. Keep the aircraft pitched level, if you bring the nose up it is likely to float.  This seems to work with me.

[Richard Dastardly 108]

From general piloting advice I've had ( and a tiny amount of GA flying ), if you're floating & it doesn't look like the a/c is going to imminently settle, actively fly it onto the runway. If you're a little too fast on the runway at least you can use brakes/dump lift etc. As for visual approaches, at least use the PAPI, that's why they're there! but as the proper pilot up there said, use everything you can.

 

I'm curious how airline pilots ( and given the only pretend airliners I fly are the CRJ and the Islander, that really means CRJ pilots ) manage lateral deviation though - for some reason in airliners I end up weaving a little side to side. It's a little aleviated by using the hud with the path marker ( I've flown a lot of DCS & I'm comfortable with HUDs ) but with head tracking so the camera is not fixed & little reference over the nose of an airliner, it's not easy to stay lined up.

 

Don't need to pitch much in the flare - in the -900 I just twitch it up slightly & barely noticeably, I haven't flown the 700 in ages but that probably needs even less. Wings are pretty low to the ground.

[Crabby 28]

1. EVERY approach, visual or not, should be flown anticipating a go-around.  Landing is just another acceptable outcome.

2. If you are floating DO NOT "fly the plane on the runway"!!  GO AROUND.  I repeat GO AROUND.  You should never land without flying a stable approach and floating is not stable.

3. The only way to get proficient is flying it by hand.  Do pattern work until you are dizzy.

4. Visual approaches can be flown with guidance from the ILS.  Many times, in real life, you will be vectored to intercept a localizer then cleared for the visual approach.  This is done primarily for traffic control.

5. A visual approach means that, as the pilot flying, you are responsible for traffic separation.  You may get, should get, traffic advisories, but you have to maintain that separation.

 

"Runway behind you and sky above you is the leading cause of aviation accidents and death."  Both of those situations are normally preceded by a fair amount of stupid.

 

[Richard Dastardly 108]

There are too many qualifiers I'd need to make to clarify what I meant, and that would seem like I'm disagreeing when I am absolutely not, so ignore me & go with Crabby. Just, like any situation in a vehicle, stay in active control of the situation rather than sitting around. If you're past your LZ you're not landing anymore.

[Raptor05121 84]

20 hours ago, Richard Dastardly said:

 

I'm curious how airline pilots manage lateral deviation though

Rudder for small corrections. If its off by an amount needed to use ailerons beyond a few degrees- go around. Wingtip ground strikes arent as rare as you would think.

 

On 1/25/2022 at 10:11 PM, jay jay said:

I hope the mods will permit me to post this, since we have a few real life CRJ pilots on this forum.   I'm trying to replicate my CRJ flying as close as possible to the real thing.   I still have a long ways to go but I had a couple of questions - 

 

When flying a "visual" approach, do you still utilize the ILS (when available) / auto pilot or do you hand fly the entire approach with no ILS guidance?

 

If you find yourself floating down the runway, how do you get the jet onto the ground?  Just throttle back and wait?  Or am I the only person who consistently flies well past the ideal touchdown location.

 

Last - do you have any approaches you find to be particularly challenging (or enjoyable)?   Always looking for something new to fly.

 

Thank you!

 

All  approaches are flown with an approach loaded as guidance. Hand flown/AP flown are all PF preference. Most seem to go hand flown during vectors to final

Go Around. If you are not stable (on speed -0/+10) sink rate (aiming 700, not to exceed 1,000fpm), and on glideslope/localizer, you go around. If you retard the throttle at 50 and idle by 30 and just pitch a couple degrees, the aircraft should hit where you aim it. If you float, go around.

 

Check out the DCA LDA 19. You have to be on your toes to avoid the Prohibited areas


Mark hit everything square on the head

[Richard Dastardly 108]

1 hour ago, Raptor05121 said:

Rudder for small corrections. If its off by an amount needed to use ailerons beyond a few degrees- go around. Wingtip ground strikes arent as rare as you would think.

It's not so much how to correct them but how to even tell you're drifting off before you need more than just a little squeeze of a pedal. In a GA a/c, or if we're talking virtual stuff pretty much any combat a/c, you've got plenty of airframe parts in front of you to line up. In an airliner especially without using VR & getting stereo vision, there's basically the window frame & that's it, and if you're using head tracking your head isn't necessarily  going to stay still enough. I guess you could pop a wiper blade down & try and line it up with a dash button but that does seem a bit awkward.

[Crabby 28]

23 hours ago, Richard Dastardly said:

It's not so much how to correct them but how to even tell you're drifting off before you need more than just a little squeeze of a pedal. In a GA a/c, or if we're talking virtual stuff pretty much any combat a/c, you've got plenty of airframe parts in front of you to line up. In an airliner especially without using VR & getting stereo vision, there's basically the window frame & that's it, and if you're using head tracking your head isn't necessarily  going to stay still enough. I guess you could pop a wiper blade down & try and line it up with a dash button but that does seem a bit awkward.

Lining up.  A trick I learned a long time ago was to make sure my monitor/tv was centered on my view.  Obvious I know but you would be surprised by what I have seen.  Then, I always fly with my main view having the PFD centered in my monitor.  Now I am "sitting in the cockpit" as I would in real life.  My feet are on the rudders of course too.  Now, I aim to have the runway hit me in the nuts for alignment.  I am not kidding.  I want the runway, in any aircraft I fly in the simulator to bisect my body.  I find that even if I am crabbing, this thought process puts me on center line in the sim with no issues.

[Richard Dastardly 108]

I like that visualisation

 

I was talking to a commercial pilot earlier who's been doing a lot of sim training recently, and he was saying he struggles to stay lined up even in a full motion sim - so I feel a little less terrible.

[ken staske 1]

1. Yes we always loaded the ILS when flying a visual approach.

2. This Sim IMHO does not do landing the CRJ well. At our airline, we never trained nor flew power off landings. Power went to idle after mains touched down.

Chopping the power in the CRJ was a no no.

3. The expressway visual into KLGA is fun and challenging!

[CRJay 428]

9 hours ago, ken staske said:

2. This Sim IMHO does not do landing the CRJ well. At our airline, we never trained nor flew power off landings. Power went to idle after mains touched down.

Chopping the power in the CRJ was a no no.

 

Power on landings on a CRJ... not a very common technique in my experience. Most common technique seems to be to reduce from 30ft and idle no later than 10ft. Power on landings increase risk of bounced landings, increase landing distance required etc. I have had more than one occasion where I had to intervene to prevent long landings due to power on for too long. Personally, I pull thrust to idle at 30ft in about 90% of landings and slightly earlier or later depending on weight in the other 10%.

 

[ken staske 1]

I guess I meant to say, don't chop the power to get down. Yes, at around 30 Feet start walking the power back.

At ten feet, pull to idle.

[Raptor05121 84]

On 1/29/2022 at 2:45 PM, ken staske said:

I guess I meant to say, don't chop the power to get down. Yes, at around 30 Feet start walking the power back.

At ten feet, pull to idle.

We walk at 50, in the stops at 30

[key-z659 7]

I would like to know about the trim setting on landing!

 

When i'm not trimming during final approach the landings are often bad....when i trim the nose down the trim gets often out of the green band but with backpressure on the yoke the landings are better.When i trim the nose up the landings are also good but i really have to push the yoke down after landing to get the nosewheel on the surface.

 

In another post i read that the landing trim should be around the value of take off trim?

[amahran 603]

On 3/10/2022 at 12:10 PM, key-z659 said:

I would like to know about the trim setting on landing!

 

When i'm not trimming during final approach the landings are often bad....when i trim the nose down the trim gets often out of the green band but with backpressure on the yoke the landings are better.When i trim the nose up the landings are also good but i really have to push the yoke down after landing to get the nosewheel on the surface.

 

In another post i read that the landing trim should be around the value of take off trim?

Green band has nothing to do with in-flight trim; there's no connection between both. Set the trim such that - if you take your hands off the throttle and joystick for a second - your plane maintains the glidepath and speed without any intervention. If you let go of the stick and your aircraft suddenly jerks nose up, that means you haven't applied enough nose down trim, and vice versa if you let go and your nose drops.

 

Generally, the combination of ground effect and tail-mounted engines means your aircraft will want to pitch up when you idle the engines and start the flare. Generally, I find myself applying some back-pressure to start the flare and then once the aircraft is in the flare I apply a touch of nose down pressure to make sure that it flies into the runway and doesn't float too long.