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It's so LOUD!!


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First impressions:

 

Excellent aircraft all around, flies like a champ, looks great and everything...

 

 

But, those prop sounds....

All sounds seem to be at least 2x as loud as any other aircraft in the game. Even the ear-blasting Carenado C337 sounds like hush-hush bedtime whispers in comparison. 

I'm aware that the Twotter is a very loud plane IRL (I've flown in one IRL many years ago)  - But coming from the CRJ, I've had to lower my FS volume from 100 to 25% just to keep it short of uncomfortable.

 

And then there is the pitch problem:  As RPM changes, there are only 3 fixed "notes" one hears from the propellers.  They crossfade properly in (copious amounts of) volume through the RPM range, yet the pitch rate of the sound samples does not change in continuous proportion.  This results in the most unsatisfying overlap of propeller sounds at different RPMs going over each other as the props spin up and down. An absolutely incongruous audio experience that in a simulation of this level is quite simply unacceptable.

 

I cannot comment on the quality of any other sounds the airplane makes during flight, since for the most part, they are all but inaudible under the massive wall of noise from the engines...

 

Nevertheless, all sounds which can be heard while the engines are off seem quite nice, even if about 4x louder than their respective counterparts in any of the other planes in the sim. (that vent fan sounds louder than the engines on the CRJ at takeoff power)

 

 

I strongly hope that these issues are acknowledged and set to be resolved in a hotfix as soon as possible.  The overall quality of whole product is greatly detracted by this.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

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  • Deputy Sheriffs
1 hour ago, Moach said:

First impressions:

 

[...]

But, those prop sounds....

All sounds seem to be at least 2x as loud as any other aircraft in the game. Even the ear-blasting Carenado C337 sounds like hush-hush bedtime whispers in comparison. 

I'm aware that the Twotter is a very loud plane IRL (I've flown in one IRL many years ago)  - But coming from the CRJ, I've had to lower my FS volume from 100 to 25% just to keep it short of uncomfortable.

And then there is the pitch problem:  As RPM changes, there are only 3 fixed "notes" one hears from the propellers.  They crossfade properly in (copious amounts of) volume through the RPM range, yet the pitch rate of the sound samples does not change in continuous proportion.  This results in the most unsatisfying overlap of propeller sounds at different RPMs going over each other as the props spin up and down. An absolutely incongruous audio experience that in a simulation of this level is quite simply unacceptable.

I cannot comment on the quality of any other sounds the airplane makes during flight, since for the most part, they are all but inaudible under the massive wall of noise from the engines...

Nevertheless, all sounds which can be heard while the engines are off seem quite nice, even if about 4x louder than their respective counterparts in any of the other planes in the sim. (that vent fan sounds louder than the engines on the CRJ at takeoff power)

[...]

 

 

Please note that the sound reference is not 'the other planes in MSFS' but the recorded sounds from the real Twin Otter and the feedback from a real Twin Otter pilot that advised us on it.

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I mean the transitions between each "band" of audio for the propeller sounds. As you move the RPM lever or throttle up and down at low power on the ground, there is no gradual shifting of the pitch rate (Hz) on those sounds.  They all play at a steady monotone which can be clearly heard as steps from one tone to another.  

 

These sounds are all very high quality in themselves. There is nothing wrong with the audio samples individually, as they are indeed very nicely recorded.   

 

It is the mixing of the loops for propellers running at various RPM which appears incomplete or incorrect.  The transitions from low to high (and vice versa) RPM ranges is discontinuous, lacking the proportional shift in playback rate that would provide a seamless ramping up and down of the droning tone.

 

The volume at which each sample plays also appears to be out of sorts.   The difference in loudness from external to internal views is very marked, with the interior being the louder by many decibels (noticeable at 80% propeller RPM.) 

 

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I also found it to be quite loud.

 

However, once in cruise, and with power settings around 35 on the torque, 80% Prop RPM it gets a lot nicer, humming away like nothing else.

 

To add to what Moach said, I found the sounds sometimes to be 'not really mixed into each other and blended'. I sometimes have the feeling to get almost no audible feedback on prop/rpm settings, until I reach a certain threshold. Then the sound changes, but more in a pre-recorded way (as in not directly dynamic, linked to my inputs). It might be realistic, and I may be completely wrong on that, because I have never even seen a real Twotter in person. But I tried to give feedback on my feelings and what I expect (as in user experience/ user expectation).

 

EDIT: Btw, I base my expectations on my experience with SWS's Kodiak, which I really adore, which should be quite similar (aside from the two engines instead of one)

 

Also, these observations are REALLY hard to put into words :)

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I confirm that the volume of the engine sound is pretty high - I also have to turn down the volume knob considerably, compared to other planes like the CRJ, but that is not really a problem for me. The problem are the transitions which are clearly perceptible in steps when moving the throttle lever.

When I set the thrust reverser, there is also a short interruption during which there is only silence. This is a bit of an immersion breaker in my opinion, therefore I avoid to use the reversers for now.

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I also find the engines noise too loud. I just compared it with the CRJ (yes, I love your aircrafts !!! :)) and other propeller planes. For me, the engines sounds are really quite loud in this twin.

Anyway, thank you for this aircraft ! :) 
 

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Have to agree with Moach, the sounds themselfs seem good but there is no gradual transition. Simply put if i had to judge by ear alone where the throttle is

i couldnt. Also going from idle into beta the sounds seem to go from nice idle sounds to BAM! full reverse even if i cross the threshold into beta/reverse slightly

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3 minutes ago, jeberl said:

 

I found the sounds sometimes to be 'not really mixed into each other and blended'. I sometimes have the feeling to get almost no audible feedback on prop/rpm settings, until I reach a certain threshold. Then the sound changes, but more in a pre-recorded way (as in not directly dynamic, linked to my inputs). 

 

My point precisely.  Take up any other PT6A powered aircraft in the sim, then move the propeller levers to different RPMs. You will hear a continuously ascending/descending note droning from the propellers.  This is perfectly natural, as any process which produces a sound which repeats faster than 60 time per second will be perceived by the human ear as a musical note.

 

As RPM increases, the pitch of that note should increase in direct proportion. A propeller spinning at 2X a given rate will always sound exactly one octave higher than it will at said rate.  In between, the frequency (or pitch) of that sound will shift linearly with respect to changing RPM.

 

This does not happen in this airplane, however.  It is possible to identify each individual recording of the propeller at different speeds, playing at constant rates in discrete steps across RPM variations.

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Moach said:

 

My point precisely.  Take up any other PT6A powered aircraft in the sim, then move the propeller levers to different RPMs. You will hear a continuously ascending/descending note droning from the propellers.  This is perfectly natural, as any process which produces a sound which repeats faster than 60 time per second will be perceived by the human ear as a musical note.

 

As RPM increases, the pitch of that note should increase in direct proportion. A propeller spinning at 2X a given rate will always sound exactly one octave higher than it will at said rate.  In between, the frequency (or pitch) of that sound will shift linearly with respect to changing RPM.

 

This does not happen in this airplane, however.  It is possible to identify each individual recording of the propeller at different speeds, playing at constant rates in discrete steps across RPM variations.

 

 

 

I suspect the issue is not really the sounds but the fact that the beta range is not actually simulated. It is just using reversers. I doubt that the prop pitch is actually moving through the beta “range”. Just a suspicion.

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2 minutes ago, John2 said:

I suspect the issue is not really the sounds but the fact that the beta range is not actually simulated. It is just using reversers. I doubt that the prop pitch is actually moving through the beta “range”. Just a suspicion.

 

Exactly. The sounds by themselves are superb. They are just less dynamic and flexible as in other aircraft. for example, If I use the reversers in the Kodiak 100, I also just use a reverse_hold button mapped in AAO. Still, the sound is blended in and out nicely, regardless of how long I hold the button, and the sound exactly matches the forces I observe on the aircraft. The way the otter does it is more like this:

- I engage the reversers. The sound does not change.

- I observe the plane braking because of the reversers, still no sound change.

- The reverser sound kicks in

- I let go of the reverser, throttle idle, the plane rolls in idle without braking

- some time later, the reverser sound stops and switches back to normal, long after the actual reverser braking stuff is over

 

I will check for a good way to visualize my inputs and game footage, then I will see if I can record something after work

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Hey guys. I just bought it and I'm super impressed with the flight dynamics and handling but the sound is an immersion killer for me too. Start up: no smooth transition to flight idle after light off. It's just start spool, light off, BAM! idle. Takeoff: idle, BAM! full throttle sound. No smooth spool up transition. Climb: Pulling props back to climb power, Full throttle sound, BAM! Cruise sound. No transition. I'm around multiple Twin Otters literally everyday where I'm from as ATC, ride them frequently and I must say I'm quite disappointed with the sounds. Also the prop blades not feathering is a bit of a peev but I understand that's being worked on so I can forget about that one. The aircraft on a whole though is a superior piece of the work and besides my peevs, I'm super duper content to have it and fly it. Thanks Mathijs and team! 

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In reality the airplane at takeoff power and with RPM above 91% is very loud... This is why at 500Ft AGL roughly and above 87KIAS you bring the torque to 40PSI and slowly bring the props to 75%. This result in a slight increase in the torque PSI to 45 (Cruise climb power) 45/75. Other climb power settings you can use are anywhere between 40-50PSI Torque and 91-75% RPM.

 

Once at these settings which you will use for most of the flight its very representative. 

 

 

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Yesterday evening Hans and I had a long teams meeting in which we smooth out the sounds even more then they already were.
Unfortunately it wasn't possible to add these changes and adjustments in the release version as everything was set and ready.
These adjustments will come in the first update that's rolled out.
The sounds are tested, provided and confirmed working as should, by real Twin Otter pilots who have hundreds of hours on the left or right seat.
Also note that if you don't change the settings during climb/cruise you'll indeed go deaf :) but that's how loud the plane is according to the real world Twin Otter pilots, so we followed that advise :)
40TQ and 75% NP should be the power settings while climbing and cruising.

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Good to know that tweaks are on the way!

 

It would seem to make sense that the Otter would be MUCH louder than a CRJ for pilots in real life - after all, the engines in the CRJ are as far away from the pilot as you can get on the airframe - and the direction of airflow / exhaust is away from from the cabin. Whereas in the Otter, the props are mere feet away from your eardrums as a pilot - and the vortex / turbulence created by the props buffets up against the cockpit.

 

The Otter is somewhat known as a ludicrously loud aircraft - wouldn't it make sense that it would be louder (the engines at least) than other MSFS aircraft?

 

Agree on the transitions and modeling of pitch changes though and its good to see that is already being addressed.

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Hi Peeps! First post on this forum (as far as I can remember anyway)

 

The problem witrh the engine sounds is that they seem slike they are a bunch of recordings of RPM settings. When you apply throttle or reduce it, it sounds like it's corssfading between those recordings, instead of a fluid treansition of engine pitch. The CRJ has the same issue, to a certain extent.

 

The samples need to change pitch according to RPM (independent for the engine itself and the prop, preferably, as these are 2 separate entities which can have different RPM depending on power setting, spool up time, airflow etc) and the samples need to flow into eachother to represent the characteristics of the sound according to that setting. So you do need to crossfade between settings, but you also need to adjust PITCH, and mould it into a fluid experience. Right now it's crap.. you hear that hight RPM noise just fading in and out suddenly as you move the trottle.. lol. 

 

I hope someone will fix this! it's so annoying, and really takes away from my fun with the Otter, which is an otherwise great looking and fun to fly plane!

 

 

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Hoi Matthijs!

 

I will admit that I haven't read the entire thread yet. If my concerns have been addressed, then I apologize. I did want to point out what i thought was the issue though :)

 

Dank voor je aandacht :)

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I agree regarding the transition between sound pitches. However I have another concern. While the sound is great from inside the cockpit, it does not sound anything like the real deal from the outside view. It's so much quieter in the outside view than inside the cockpit -- has anyone else noticed this? 

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  • Aerosoft
3 minutes ago, Payt Laros said:

Dank voor je aandacht

 

Geen probleem.

The comments are being looked at very seriously, to some degree they are caused by users using the aircraft different to what our advisory pilots do. If you check the sounds video Jeroen did, you notice that, while not perfect, the issue is far less obvious.

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  • Aerosoft
2 minutes ago, rootLucus said:

I agree regarding the transition between sound pitches. However I have another concern. While the sound is great from inside the cockpit, it does not sound anything like the real deal from the outside view. It's so much quieter in the outside view than inside the cockpit -- has anyone else noticed this? 

 

At the same distance from the engines? Keep in mind that you are damned close to the props in the cockpit and almost in line with the propblades and with a door made of 2mm aluminum, single pane glass. The noisiest place you can be. 

 

If you have serious experience from the flight deck we like to talk to you however.

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