How are you guys landing the CRJ?

[jay jay 93]

I'm having difficulty getting this thing on the ground.   I'm flying a stabilized approach, on GS and speed.   I click off the AP around 100' and shortly thereafter, I get Sink Rate warnings.   If I try to correct those, I end up floating down half the runway, even with the throttles at idle.  If I don't correct, I land (impact?) pretty hard.   It almost seems like I need to land this thing carrier-style, ie - maintain speed and attitude all the way to the deck.    Any advice from simmers (and also from any actual pilots on how they do it in RL)?

 

Do you precisely fly the calculated V-speed or do you add a few knots in for a safety factor?  With a V-speed of 134 or so, if I flare,  I still find myself floating down the runway at 20'-30' at approx 120 knots.  I'm wondering if the calculated V-speeds may be off?

[mopperle 4162]

Have you watched this series of videos?
https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/forum/1061-come-fly-with-me-by-the-dude/

 

[BobbyFuzzy 88]

First I'd recommend turning the AP off well above 100ft. The CRJ isn't really designed to fly that close to the ground with the AP engaged to my knowledge. This will give you a bit more of a feel for the sensitivity of the aircraft to the hand along with the pitch/power couple from the high, rear mounted engines.

 

Try and hit the Vref speed as you cross the threshold at around 50ft. Then you will be set up for a nice touchdown.

 

You hardly need to flare in the CRJ, talking around 1-2 degrees. When you pull back the power you should notice the nose naturally pitches up a bit also making it very easy to overdo it and end up floating.

 

Whether you add any margins to the Vref speed is going to be dependant on the weather conditions of the day.

[KuntaKinte 210]

 The flight dynamics are not comparable to the real aircraft. It is an approximation at best. Another good example is the excessive climb performance of this addon.

 

On 12/18/2021 at 5:02 PM, jay jay said:

Any tips you can share?

 

As @BobbyFuzzy already said. Try to fly as close to the Flight Director commands as possible while keeping an eye on the speed. The AS CRJ flares (floats) too much before finally touching down - any excessive speed will increase this tendency. Overhead the RWY treshold you should have reached V_REF. At 50 ft retard the thrust levers and at 20 ft pitch up just a tiny amount in order to break the descent. Keep this pitch until touchdown.

[jay jay 93]

15 hours ago, KuntaKinte said:

 The flight dynamics are not comparable to the real aircraft. It is an approximation at best. Another good example is the excessive climb performance of this addon.

 

 

As @BobbyFuzzy already said. Try to fly as close to the Flight Director commands as possible while keeping an eye on the speed. The AS CRJ flares (floats) too much before finally touching down - any excessive speed will increase this tendency. Overhead the RWY treshold you should have reached V_REF. At 50 ft retard the thrust levers and at 20 ft pitch up just a tiny amount in order to break the descent. Keep this pitch until touchdown.

Final question and I'll stop bugging you.  Since you fly this thing in RL, how common is the HUD in the 550 / 700 series.   Is it a standard fit or an option?  I've been avoiding using it because I'm trying to challenge myself and also, I didn't think it was very common in those jets.    If you have used it, do you feel it enhances your ability to make good landings?

[KuntaKinte 210]

Well, it is also an option, but I think here in Europe it's almost standard. It was installed in all three CRJ models I have flown so far.

 

On our CRJ fleet it is used almost exclusively for approaches in low visibility conditions, because it makes the aircraft CATIII capable. Other than that it is a very helpful aid for TCAS resolution advisories.

 

3 hours ago, jay jay said:

If you have used it, do you feel it enhances your ability to make good landings?

 

That's not the purpose of the HGS. In CATIIIa conditions (= AIII) the system has to guide you to touchdown, since your decision height is only 50 ft. This guidance is good and the only way to successfully complete such an approach, but it does not enhance your landing technique - you simply follow the FD commands with reduced outside reference.

[Crabby 28]

Every approach should be flown expecting a go-around.  Landing is just an acceptable outcome.  This is especially true when flying an approach to known minimums.  Now, if you are flying on a VFR day to 100 feet above the ground and hoping to click off the AP and just flare, you are mistaken with any aircraft.  This is no different than being on a stabilized approach with one pilot flying then having another one take over last second.  Adjustments will have to be done and that low to the ground QUICKLY. 

 

You learn to control an aircraft with pattern work and flying that pattern MANUALLY.  That is the only way you will learn yoke, rudder and throttle manipulation to achieve good landing results.  Also remember, a good landing is NOT one that is sub 50 fps and three quarters of the way down the runway.  Sky above you and runway behind you is a waste.  You must learn to set any aircraft down in the landing zone while arresting the descent.  Good landings in the CRJ are the ones you set down in the landing zone and are able to taxi your plane to the gate and get your passengers off and on and start the next leg. 

 

There is no magic cure to what ails your landings.  You have to put in the manual hours to become proficient.  

[CRJay 428]

7 hours ago, KuntaKinte said:

Well, it is also an option, but I think here in Europe it's almost standard. It was installed in all three CRJ models I have flown so far.

 

I am going to take a wild guess that you are with LH CL . As far as I am aware, that's the only European carrier with the HGS equipped on (nearly?) every CRJ. Maybe some of the HOP! ones as well, I think Brit Air had the HGS installed. But places like Air Nostrum or CityJet mostly do not have them as far as I know.

 

Air Nostrum was flying around with AHRS and single FMS CRJs... less options less cost. Keeping crew current on the HGS is extra training, keeping it maintained and in the documentation is extra cost. The benefit of the CATIIIa capability vs CATII is not a worthwhile tradeoff for most airlines as the weather conditions that absolutely require CATIII are (relatively) rare. I would even guess the biggest benefit might be for planning purposes, as I suppose you can plan your alternate for CATII instead of having to drop down to CATI.

[KuntaKinte 210]

You are right about my employer And I can even confirm that all our CRJs have the HGS installed (the ERJ fleet has it too). The other aircraft of the LH Group are equipped with autoland and certified up to CATIIIb. Furthermore, many airports in my route network have upgraded their approach system to CATIII in recent years. They wouldn't have done that if it wasn't necessary. And believe it or not, there were days when we had RVR values < 300 m on every single approach. When you need it, the gain of 50 ft/200 m over 100 ft/350 m is substantial.

[Richard Dastardly 108]

On 12/19/2021 at 4:45 PM, jay jay said:

I'm wondering if the calculated V-speeds may be off?

If you're using the tablet to set them for landing, make sure you recalculate them on approach... when I was starting quite a lot of the time I'd forget to do that, and of course it hadn't taken fuel burn into account.

 

Seems very easy to land in general, does like to complain about glideslope a lot - usually when I'm flying the PAPI rather than the FD, which I guess is either a MSFS thing or occasionally a mod author hasn't got something right. Once or twice I've hit what's felt like a microburst ( I don't think they're deliberately modelled? given what the live weather gets up to sometimes they might well have accidentally done it! ) and just started sinking rapidly - "I've more or less stalled" rapidly -  but that's very rare. Fortunately the landing gear seems to be made of happy smiles & good will & lets you get away with an awful lot...