Aerosoft DHC-6 Twin Otter final 1.11 update

[aguiar 3]

Thanks guys

[fushi 0]

Dear mathjiskok,

The 1.11 update is great!

I'm particularly much pleased that the throttle animation has been corrected.

How can I drug the throttle lever E1+E2 together with a mouse?

Sincerely,

Kan-ichiro Fushihara

[Daniel Roethlisberger 0]

What about the frames? If it is as manageable as e.g. the DC-10 (JF), I'll buy it this evening.

But I have e.g. problems in the vc of the A320 (wilco).

Regards.

[Andy B. 40]

It far better than anything Wilco has ever done and especially FPS wise.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

What about the frames? If it is as manageable as e.g. the DC-10 (JF), I'll buy it this evening.

But I have e.g. problems in the vc of the A320 (wilco).

Regards.

Yes, can understand that as they got most gauges not in the MDL. This VC has gauges with screen updates equal to the framerate and is about as fast as the more complex default aircraft. See the two images I attach.

[Daniel Roethlisberger 0]

Wow, thank you!

Together with Lord Howe, this will be woderful!

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Wow, thank you!

Together with Lord Howe, this will be woderful!

Yes, but it is a 3 hours flight to Brisbane, on the edge of what you should do with a Twotter. I done it a few times recently to check fuel flow on new versions of the Twin Otter.

It's more a DHC-8 route, we really should do that one, even though I consider it the most boring and fugly aircraft is service at this moment.

[Daniel Roethlisberger 0]

For God's sake, no, I love the Dash 8!

I think I'll have to do from Zurich to Lord Howe on a A318.

However, I'm really looking forward to this scenery.

[JAL 0]

Hi all,

Nice to hear that you guys are enjoying the Otter so much. I gotta say I had a blast working on it too.

Ken, really glad you were happy with the update. Just wanted to check with you that you can get the prop to feather. I had Steve verify it for me, and it worked fine for him (using the key stroke or button after pulling the prop levers all the way back).

It is unfortunate that you can't accomplish the feather using your prop levers on your hardware add on. Is there any plane (default or add on) that you have managed to do it? If so I could have a look at it and see how it has been done.

I suspect that the problem though is a basic FS bug similar to the throttle/reverse thrust problem. FS understands the throttle and reverse thrust as two different things, when of course they are just one. Using FSUIPC I understand it is possible to map both onto the throttle lever so it actually works.

Similarly FS basically understands the governed range of prop rpm as one thing, and feathering as a completely separate function. I wonder if Peter Dowson could solve your prop problem in FSUIPC if you asked him, or maybe it is already possible.

Cheers,

John

[Ken Stallings 1]

Oh yeah, many.

The Eaglesoft Twin Comanche is a blast to feather! Just do the classic EP response and she'll stand tall and straight every time just from the controller's movements.

The Digital Aviation Piper Cheyene requires that I "pull" the prop lever from the normal stop just a bit further back from the detent into feather. A realistic aspect since this aircraft has a detent stop that the pilot has to manually move the lever to get past. But the Digital Aviation designers accepted the feedback from actual pilots and changed the model to let you take your mouse and put the "hand" over the VC prop lever, and slide the mouse to the rear to pull the prop lever into the final feather detent.

Once that is done, voila, she feathers and stands tall pretty as you please.

So, it can be done without a keyboard command.

Cheers,

Ken

[JAL 0]

How about any of the default ones? (I don't have the twin comanche).

When you feather in the twin comanche does the governor function all the way down to feather? I mean when you feather is there any point where the prop just jumps to feather after gradually coming down? This would tell me something.

In the cheyenne (which I also don't have) this sounds like a similar situation to the twin otter where the prop levers are mapped only in the governed range of the prop, and then you have to execute a separate function to feather (whether it be a key stroke, button push, or grabbing the prop levers in the vc). Unfortunately, I couldn't help you with this type of mod (it would require changes in the model files which is completely beyond my skills).

John

[JAL 0]

Oh yeah, please, please let me know if you can get the prop to feather using the key stroke.

John

[JAL 0]

HI!

I've figured out the prop feathering problem and surprisingly it has NOTHING to do with engine shut downs. The good news is there are easy work arounds.

Problem: Ken, Steve and I have experienced that sometimes feathering works with CTRL-F2, and sometimes not. Here's how it happens.

Keep your engines running and put your hardware away here, I can recreate this problem just using the default keys:

CTRL - F1 = Propeller (low RPM)- prop rpm jumps to minimum governed

CTRL - F4 = Propeller (high RPM)- prop rpm jumps to highest RPM

CTRL - F2 = Propeller (decrease RPM quickly) - prop rpm reduces with each key stroke and goes into feather

CTRL - F3 = Propeller (increase RPM incrementally) - prop rpm increases with each key stroke and comes out of feather

If you just keep your engines running and you do this sequence you will find that CTRL-F2 does NOT feather the props:

Step 1: press CTRL -F1

Step 2: press CTRL -F2 (props now feather)

Step 3. press CTRL -F4 (props start to come back up)

***IMPORTANT*** do the next step before props have completely come up to 100%

Step 4: press CTRL- F1 (wait till props settle down to 76%)

Step 5: press CTRL -F2 (PROPS DO NOT FEATHER- but they should)

SOLUTIONS: If you want to get feathering working again...

1. Press CTRL-F3 until props levers move a bit

or

2. Press CTRL-F4 again and go back and feather them

or

3. Move the prop lever with your mouse (just a little will do)

The next time you press CTRL - F2 it will feather as long as the prop lever is right at the end of its travel (the CTRL -F1 position).

When you use the hardware (and this may only apply to certain brands) the hardware cycles between what FS sees as CTRL- F4 and CTRL- F1. The hardware may be implementing the equivalent of the key strokes.

Ken: The hardware does not recognise CTRL - F2 unless you use FSUIPC. Finn is able to get the props to feather just using his prop lever hardware, it just takes some programing in FSUIPC (which I understand is a bit tricky).

There may be other key combinations which prevent CTRL -F2 from working for the feather, but I imagine the solutions I listed above always work.

This is a problem that will only arise when trying to feather the prop a number of times in succession (e.g., repeatedly practicing engine failures). Something that will rarely be done.

Cheers!

John

[JAL 0]

Ken,

Here are some instructions to configure ch products in FSUIPC so that you can feather your prop with them:

http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=67409

I don't know if you have to do something different with the Twin Otter (in the post they hint that settings may have to be different for different aircraft- I wonder if you may be able to solve your Cheyenne problem at the same time). Maybe Finn can help you out if there's still problems, since he can get his to work.

John

[Finn 873]

Hi Ken

I have a CH Throttle Quadrant and it works flawless.

Here is my controller setup for FSUIPC. Do mind that all axises processed by FSUIPC should be disabled in FSX's own controller setup:

[JoystickCalibration]

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

ApplyHeloTrim=Yes

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=66731

RudderTrimControl=66732

CowlFlaps1Control=66162

CowlFlaps2Control=66163

CowlFlaps3Control=66164

CowlFlaps4Control=66165

SteeringTillerControl=0

MaxSteerSpeed=60

Aileron=-16159,0,0,16096

Elevator=-16255,0,0,16320

Rudder=-15993,0,0,16000

ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes

ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes

ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes

Reverser=0,0

Throttle1=-16384,-14433,-11182,15232

Throttle2=-16384,-14433,-11312,15616

PropPitch1=-16384,-16384,-16384,16383

PropPitch2=-16384,-16384,-15863,16383

LeftBrake=-9472,16384/16

RightBrake=-9472,16384/16

[buttons]

1=R1,12,C65966,0

2=R1,14,C65971,0

3=P1,16,C66006,0

4=P1,18,C66011,0

5=P1,20,C65986,0

6=P1,22,C65991,0

7=P1,5,C66080,0

8=P1,4,C66079,0

9=P1,13,C65967,0

10=P1,15,C65972,0

[Axes]

0=0X,256,D,1,0,0,0

1=0Y,256,D,2,0,0,0

2=1X,256,D,9,0,0,0

3=1Y,256,D,10,0,0,0

4=1Z,256,D,17,0,0,0

5=1R,256,D,18,0,0,0

6=1U,256,D,14,0,0,0

7=1V,256,D,13,0,0,0

8=2X,256,D,7,0,0,0

9=2Y,256,D,8,0,0,0

10=2Z,256,D,3,0,0,0

I don´t know if it is of any use, but if You have trouble setting up FSUIPC, I might be able to help.

Finn

[Ken Stallings 1]

OK, I think the vexing feather issue is finally solved. It did involve using FSUIPC, but not in the way I think many here thought it might.

I simply used FSUIPC to calibrate the two throttle levers, prop levers, and mixture levers. Inherent in the FSUIPC menu was the ability to set min, max, and feather values for the prop levers, and also set min, max, and reverse settings for the throttle levers.

Surprisingly, it seems the most critical of these setting were the throttles!

Here is what I discovered...

The props will not feather if the throttles are put into reverse.

Eureka!

Even if the prop lever is pulled to feather, and the mixture control is pulled to idle cutoff, if the throttle is in the reverse setting then the prop windmills. But soon as I move the throttle into the min (idle) range, the prop feathers immediately. I don't even have to toggle the fuel shutoff switch, which is realistic since the mixture at idle cutoff should do the trick.

I went up and practiced a half dozen times with each engine and every single time provided I put the throttle precisely into ground idle, the prop condition lever in feather, and the mixture condition lever to idle cutoff, the prop feathered and stood tall within a few seconds.

Restarts were an interesting discovery. Twice I was able to successfully go through a air restart on the left and right engine. However, despite using the same procedures, the third effort on the left engine resulted in an out of control engine, meaning the torque and ITT went to max values even though the throttle was set to ground idle.

Once this happened, every subsequent shutdown and restart effort for the left engine produced the same result, even on the ground.

For the fun of it I once shut down and feathered both engines. Got rather quiet! LOL!!!

Found that the Twin Otter glided very nicely with both engines shut off, achieving with flaps up about a 500 FPM rate of descent at blue line 80 KIAS. That's very respectable. Nearly on par with a Cessna Skyhawk and a very safe speed to plan a forced landing.

I wonder if those numbers are accurate as Steve may relate for us.

Hope this feedback helps to plan future releases. For me personally, it restores a lot of the joy of flying virtual multi-engine aircraft. However, in a quest to forever nitpick I wonder why the air restarts are causing the out of control torque and ITT?

Cheers,

Ken

[pbearsailor 9]

Found that the Twin Otter glided very nicely with both engines shut off, achieving with flaps up about a 500 FPM rate of descent at blue line 80 KIAS. That's very respectable. Nearly on par with a Cessna Skyhawk and a very safe speed to plan a forced landing.

I wonder if those numbers are accurate as Steve may relate for us.

Cheers,

Ken

Hehe, not ever having the occasion to do it for real, I can't really say. I do remember doing some spot landing stuff on checkrides where we'd pull the power to idle abeam touchdown spot and in those situatiions it dropped like a rock. For sure, feathering the props would make a lot of difference, the airplane does have a bunch of lift, but I'd doubt that it could do 500 fpm descent. My guess would be more like 1000 fpm.

Used to do it pretty often in the simulator at Flight Safety in King Airs and they were going down hill pretty fast with both feathered, probably 1500 fpm or so, but doable if you had some altitude to start with. :shock:

Interesting, though, I was doing a mission that had a double engine failure in the virtual one yesterday and it did just fall out of the sky until I managed to get them both feathered. Then it really did go down slowly, not sure of the fpm, but I was too high for my spot and had to circle.

The aircraft manual calls for 10 degrees of flaps with one engine out as it has more lift, so I'd suspect that would be the best setup for a double engine out as well. I know it climbs better with a little flap.

Sure makes sense on your feathering stuff with FSUIPC. I gotta get a throttle quadrant.

cheers,

steve

[JAL 0]

Hi guys,

Glad to hear that you got your prop feathering issue worked out Ken. I've been working on a fix for the engine restart problem, and it looks like it can be corrected. I got Steve to verify my findings and it looks ok. If you want to try it out let me know and I'll show you how to do the changes.

The rate of descent with engines out is an interesting one, and got me interested in trying to figure out how realistic the flight model is again.

In my real world manual (if you want a copy go to rareaviation.com and download the twin otter pilot training manual) there is a performance chart called 'time, distance and fuel in a power off descent' for the 300 model (100 model chart is a bit different). Obviously, this is with engines on, but it still tells us something about glide performance.

For a weight of 12,500 and a descent from 5000ft to sea level it should take 7.5 minutes with 10 degrees of flap, engines at idle and airspeed 86 KIAS. Prop setting is not mentioned, although I think its safe to assume it is 75%. A quick calculation based on those numbers gives us an average rate of descent of about 660ft/min. I tested that in the sim and came up with the about 650-700ft/min. So very close to the real numbers.

By the way it is interesting in the emergency procedures for one engine landings they recommend that all approaches be done at 86 KIAS with 10 degrees of flap regardless of weight of the aircraft.

Cheers!

John

[JAL 0]

Hi again,

I was just thinking that your problem Ken may have originated with some strange behaviour in the beta range. (the aircraft actually first moves forward when the power lever is just over the gate into reverse)

To fix this go to your aircraft cfg and change the entry that says:

minimum_on_ground_beta = 11.0

to

minimum_on_ground_beta = 5.0

At the same time you can do the fix for the surge at startup:

Find the entry that says

fuel_flow_gain = 0.08

and change it to

fuel_flow_gain = 0.02

Save the cfg file and reload the airplane in FS

Let me know if this solves your problems...

John

[Ken Stallings 1]

I'm not sure that it solved the problem entirely.

I managed a half dozen air restarts without issue. But then I did a two engine out approach and landing and attempted a restart on the runway. The right engine started great. But the left engine then started up and surged to max torque and ITT without response to throttle. So go figure!

But the other thing I noticed was slower engine response overall to throttle commands, and that's undesirable since Aerosoft worked closely with Steve to nail the response of the PT-6 engines.

Thanks for the effort, however. That is sincerely appreciated.

Cheers,

Ken

[Ken Stallings 1]

I'm thinking that in the aggregate I'm satisfied with what the situation is right now. I mean the plane flies great! The engine responds great. And now I can feather by proper procedure 100% of the time.

To be honest, you really don't shut down these engines for training. Even in pistons it abuses the engines, which is why twin engine trainers rarely meet the TBO limits and why most folks don't desire to purchase twins that were used as trainers their whole career.

Cheers,

Ken

[Iron.Eagle 0]

The version 1.11 of the Aerosoft DHC-6 Twin Otter X is the version that will be used shortly for the boxed distribution. (...)

shortly?

c'mon mathjis, how long until we can find her in the stores??

[mickoleen 0]

Please help me!

I have successfully downloaded update 1.11, and have deleted every file I could find pertaining to the original models. Still I get a halt saying that the plane is still installed and must be uninstalled before running installer again. What am I missing? I have deleted files in:

Sim Objects

Effects

Gauges

Aersosoft, etc

Where elso do I need to look for files to delete?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance. Milke L.

[Andy B. 40]

You are supposed to remove the Twotter using "Add Remove Programs" in the control panel, not delete the files and folders manually.

[mickoleen 0]

Thanks, I finally figured it out, of course then I had a heck of a time finding my serial number, but finally found in in my deleted e-mails, so updated edition is up and funning.

Sorry for my ignorance, Mike L.