Jump to content

CRJ not tracking ILS or any RNP approach


herky20
 Share

Recommended Posts

I try to get the CRJ to track an ILS or an RNP, EDDM 26R for example and it fails every time.

 

I am correctly aligned at 5000' at GUDEG on a course of 262. But the CRJ wont do a RNav GPS approach. Same with the ILS, it seems to adjust the vertical trim too far up, resulting in a pitch up and loss of airspeed. Inspite of the fact I am at VRef airspeeds according to the PFD?

 

Anyone else see this.

 

For a trial test I flew the same route in the CJ4 (WT mod .7) and it tracked the RNav GPS  and ILS perfectly at EDDM.

 

Thanks

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The CRJ is not capable to fly RNAV approaches. 
 

don’t know about your ILS thou. I’ve made several ILS approaches in Munich and had no issues. 
 

vRef should be reached at the end of the descent. You should try to capture the ILS at about 160kt and gradually decrease speed until you reach vRef when you are about over the zebra of the runway. 

  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Puuhbear said:

The CRJ is not capable to fly RNAV approaches. 
 

don’t know about your ILS thou. I’ve made several ILS approaches in Munich and had no issues. 
 

vRef should be reached at the end of the descent. You should try to capture the ILS at about 160kt and gradually decrease speed until you reach vRef when you are about over the zebra of the runway. 

RNP approaches... not all RNAV..

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Puuhbear said:

The CRJ is not capable to fly RNAV approaches. 
 

don’t know about your ILS thou. I’ve made several ILS approaches in Munich and had no issues. 
 

vRef should be reached at the end of the descent. You should try to capture the ILS at about 160kt and gradually decrease speed until you reach vRef when you are about over the zebra of the runway. 

Holy crap!  I did not know the CRJ can't fly an RNAV approach.  I wish I would have known that before flying a hundred of them.  Also Vref should NOT be reached at the end of the descent.  You may be 20 nm from the airport at the end of descent and going to piss someone off if you are tooling around at 136 or so knots.  You actually kind of got it right in the last sentence. The descent phase ends at some point before the approach phase begins.  Takeoff, Climb, Cruise,  Descent, Initial Approach, Final Approach, Landing/Go Around.

 

And yes, the CRJ is FULLY capable of flying an RNAV approach down to minimums on auto-pilot even.  You just have to know how to fly an RNAV approach and read a chart because unlike the 737, the CRJ won't do it for you.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Crabby said:

Holy crap!  I did not know the CRJ can't fly an RNAV approach.  I wish I would have known that before flying a hundred of them.  Also Vref should NOT be reached at the end of the descent.  You may be 20 nm from the airport at the end of descent and going to piss someone off if you are tooling around at 136 or so knots.  You actually kind of got it right in the last sentence. The descent phase ends at some point before the approach phase begins.  Takeoff, Climb, Cruise,  Descent, Initial Approach, Final Approach, Landing/Go Around.

 

And yes, the CRJ is FULLY capable of flying an RNAV approach down to minimums on auto-pilot even.  You just have to know how to fly an RNAV approach and read a chart because unlike the 737, the CRJ won't do it for you.

 

Why do you often reply sarcastic and derogatory? Please stop that as it is very unpleasant.

 

  • Like 3
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • CRJ Forum Moderator
vor 19 Stunden , herky20 sagte:

I try to get the CRJ to track an ILS or an RNP, EDDM 26R for example and it fails every time.

 

I am correctly aligned at 5000' at GUDEG on a course of 262. But the CRJ wont do a RNav GPS approach. Same with the ILS, it seems to adjust the vertical trim too far up, resulting in a pitch up and loss of airspeed. Inspite of the fact I am at VRef airspeeds according to the PFD?

 

Anyone else see this.

 

For a trial test I flew the same route in the CJ4 (WT mod .7) and it tracked the RNav GPS  and ILS perfectly at EDDM.

 

Thanks

 

 

Can you record a video for us for e.g. ILS 26R?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • CRJ Forum Moderator

The CRJ can definitely fly a standard RNAV approach. However the real CRJ is not capable of flying an RNP RNAV approach, and such approaches do not even appear in the FMS database of the real aircraft. Flying these types of approaches requires FMS and autopilot functions that neither the real (nor simulated) CRJ has.

 

RNP approaches do appear in the FMS of the sim version of the CRJ. At this time, there is no way to filter them out of the approach database as is done in the real aircraft.

 

The aircraft might follow a very simple RNP approach, but if there are multiple RF legs in the procedure, it will almost certainly fail to track correctly. If you see the letters “RNP” in the approach procedure name in the FMS or on the approach chart, “proceed with caution” and at your own risk. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/19/2021 at 5:37 AM, Danny Vincken said:

 

Why do you often reply sarcastic and derogatory? Please stop that as it is very unpleasant.

 

Because people make statements like "the CRJ is not capable fly RNAV approaches".  People don't read FAQs.  People don't read manuals.  People don't do simple Google searches.  People then ask questions that tee up a facetious or sarcastic response.  If that offends you, I don't care because only YOU can TAKE offense to something.  Also I would suggest you learn the difference between facetious and sarcasm.  If you take offense to anything here or in real life, I would suggest you discover why.  Normally people get all bent out of shape as a response to the truth that they can't handle like an adult. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Downvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 19.8.2021 at 12:37, Danny Vincken sagte:

 

Why do you often reply sarcastic and derogatory? Please stop that as it is very unpleasant.

 

It's not worth it...

 

People who are mean to others are often miserable themselves.

  • Upvote 4
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 19.8.2021 at 00:50, Puuhbear sagte:

vRef should be reached at the end of the descent. You should try to capture the ILS at about 160kt and gradually decrease speed until you reach vRef when you are about over the zebra of the runway. 

I'm trying it with a constructive comment: Since the ILS at EDDM is captured relatively high (3500ft AGL), I actually suggest to intercept it at a higher speed. For my, something like 190kt with flaps 1 works pretty well. Then lower the gear at 2000ft AGL but keep speed above 170kt and flaps at 20 until 5NM before touchdown. At this point, continue to slow down to Vref and increase flaps accordingly.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a fault, I have observed, with my version of the CRJ (latest .6 update that fixed the MSFS U5 shenanigens)

 

On approach, either ILS or RNP approach mode, the trim starts to over compensate. This makes vertical guidance impossible.

 

Additionally, I see Lateral guidance wide of the mark.

 

I am initiating Approach at the FAF at the correct altitude and 200 knots prior to slowing to reference speeds. The GS/GP indices are centered when approach is initiated. After that the system fails.

 

Speed control is as per reference speeds, set up from the EFB and inputted via EFB into the FMS.

 

I have flown the same test routes, EDLP to EDDM and EGLC to EGKK, many times. Each approach, in either ILS or RNP fails.

 

I have repeated these routes (identical routes from Sim Brief) in the WT CJ4 and that aircraft tracks ILS or RNP approaches perfectly. Since the WT CJ4 has a similar manual thrust regime and I fly with the CJ4 reference speeds, I can only assume my version of the CRJ has a trim problem. 

 

Therefore either my install of the CRJ is corrupt, or there is a problem with the CRJ code. 

 

If this is an issue with my install, well then unfortunately, I can not use this aircraft as I would like.

 

The P3d version performs normally.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@herky20 I haven't observed this problem. It has been reported that the CRJ interferes with certain third-party mods (PMS GNS 430/530, PMS GTN750, WT G3000 and GX😞

If you have one of those installed, I suggest to remove them when flying the CRJ. Furthermore, you are supposed not to touch (or even open) the MSFS load manager, since this can mess up the CG. You may also try to reinstall the CRJ.

 

If this doesn't help, please make a video of the issue. Maybe we can spot possible causes.

 

Finally, note that the CRJ has only limited RNP capabilities, which has most recently been discussed here:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK. Problem solved!

 

I uninstalled the CRJ.

I deleted all the add on liveries from the community folder.

I re downloaded the CRJ.

Reinstalled.

ILS working as expected.

I dont think the AS Updater had actually updated the simulation.

A reinstall was necessary to fix things!

May be the add on liveries from Flightsim.to caused a malfunction?

 

Thanks for the help.

Best regards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it even possible to update the CRJ using the AS updater? I thought you need to redownload it anyway. In theory, a livery can cause a malfunction depending on what files are changed. But I had no issues so far.

 

Anyway, good to hear that it is working now. Have fun flying!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Deputy Sheriffs
1 hour ago, SinusJayCee said:

Is it even possible to update the CRJ using the AS updater? I thought you need to redownload it anyway.

 

Depends on the complexity of the update. Major updates for the CRJ, as well as most products, require a complete reinstall with the new files. This is the best way to ensure users have a solid baseline for future updates. Of course that also means more work for users to update, but that's the cost of reducing help requests resulting from files modified by other sources.

 

I don't remember how many CRJ updates required a full reinstall, but I'm pretty sure a couple of them were able to be done just with ASUpdater.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies.

 

I think one or more of my Flightsim.to liveries nay have caused issues. Not all are tested with U5. I have deleted them.

 

I am just testing the test flight again. EDLP to EDDM.

 

I see the CRJ completely ignores the SID. WRB1W.?

Or WRB9W?

 

Using FMC Nav mode.

 

It omitted the LP201/LP202 and flew direct to ANANO even omitted WRB?

 

I really dont understand why it can not fly the SID using the FMC?

 

Perhaps it was the weather?

 

The ILS appears to function, but I can not achieve an RNP approach.

 

Also the engines appear under powered. Maintaining a good climb rate at 185-200 Knots was difficult?

 

Thanks.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 27.8.2021 at 20:00, Herman sagte:

 

Depends on the complexity of the update. Major updates for the CRJ, as well as most products, require a complete reinstall with the new files. This is the best way to ensure users have a solid baseline for future updates. Of course that also means more work for users to update, but that's the cost of reducing help requests resulting from files modified by other sources.

 

I don't remember how many CRJ updates required a full reinstall, but I'm pretty sure a couple of them were able to be done just with ASUpdater.

Thanks for information! I don't have to CRJ for that long and had only one update so far, which needed to be redownloaded. So I assumed this applies to all updates.

 

vor 16 Stunden , herky20 sagte:

I think one or more of my Flightsim.to liveries nay have caused issues. Not all are tested with U5. I have deleted them.

 

I am just testing the test flight again. EDLP to EDDM.

 

I see the CRJ completely ignores the SID. WRB1W.?

Or WRB9W?

 

Using FMC Nav mode.

 

It omitted the LP201/LP202 and flew direct to ANANO even omitted WRB?

 

I really dont understand why it can not fly the SID using the FMC?

I had no major issues when I did the flight as tutorial. Can you provide more details? I video would be great, but some screenshots of the exact situation and e.g. how the route looks in the FMC may work as well.

 

vor 16 Stunden , herky20 sagte:

Perhaps it was the weather?

This may have an influence on the performance, but not an the nav capabilities unless there weather is really extreme.

 

vor 16 Stunden , herky20 sagte:

The ILS appears to function, but I can not achieve an RNP approach.

Did you read the discussion I linked in my previous post? The CRJ has only limited RNP capabilities.

 

vor 16 Stunden , herky20 sagte:

Also the engines appear under powered. Maintaining a good climb rate at 185-200 Knots was difficult?

We need more information here as well, including GW, CG, weather, plane's configuration, altitude, etc.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...