Approach to EDDH | no DME information on ILS23 | wrong distance to RWY/airport in FMS | CRS 000 instead of 228 | using Navigraph Ultimate (2108)

[Moridin 85]

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Flying the ILS23 to EDDH approach today on VATSIM (was vectored to DH655 on the BOGM1P STAR). Using the latest AIRAC (2108 IIRC), verified.

 

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Please note no distance information on HUD. CRS was 000 - I had to manually turn the CRS knob to set it properly to 228.

PFD shows 11 NM when in reality I was at PISAS which is 9.3 NM from RWY.

 

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A closer look at the FMS and HUD at the same time. Please note ILS frq 111.50 was set correctly (automatically).

At this point I was around 5 NM from EDDH, while the FMS is showing 9 NM to RWY23 and EDDK.

 

Please let me know if you need anything else on the topic.

[Puuhbear 114]

not sure if that's the issue but all you pictures show EDDH (Hamburg) and not EDDK (Köln) :X

[KuntaKinte 210]

3 hours ago, Puuhbear said:

not sure if that's the issue but all you pictures show EDDH (Hamburg) and not EDDK (Köln) :X

 

That's it

 

And the DME readout was missing, because ILS 23 requires ALF in DME-H.

[Moridin 85]

4 hours ago, Puuhbear said:

not sure if that's the issue but all you pictures show EDDH (Hamburg) and not EDDK (Köln) :X

Ugh, typo. I get my EDD’s all mixed up. Flight was to EDDH indeed.

[Moridin 85]

1 hour ago, KuntaKinte said:

And the DME readout was missing, because ILS 23 requires ALF in DME-H.

I see now! Thanks, that makes sense. So I just set it as NAV2 in the CRJ? I’ve never configured an approach with 2 navaids.

 

Do you perhaps have a link handy, which goes into ILS in more detail with cases such as this runway? Is that small “DME required” note the only indication on the Jeppensen charts that I need to also tune ALF? And the CRS data is from ALF then?

 

I was re-configuring the approach pretty close to the airport (runway change) and it was all hectic.

 

Last question: why is the distance data in the FMS (legs page etc) inaccurate? I’ve had it be wrong by 20-30 NM on a straight path. I’ve also seen 100+ NM distance to airport on the LEGS page when in reality I was less than 20 NM away. Don’t recall which airport now, will check my videos. Does it calculate the full approach distance and if I get a shortcut from ATC, it’s not recalculated?

[KuntaKinte 210]

Setup for both RTU: First tune ALF as active frequency, then push the DME-H button (right side of the RTU). You will see the frequency appearing in the middle of the screen with a yellow "H" appended (to delete it lateron, just push the button again). Now you can tune the ILS as active frequency. For a complete setup you should also tune HAM as preselected frequency, because you might need it in case of a go-around.

 

Concerning DME requirements of approach procedures: My company uses LIDO charts. They have a "Designator Box" where you can easily see, if the DME distance is independent from the localizer frequency or not. Two examples:

 

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When you look at the Designator Box "ILS or LOC ...", you see the letter "D" in front of the frequency. This tells you that the DME distance is linked to the localizer frequency. No other station is necessary for the approach - unless the DME portion fails. In that case ALF is a backup. The waypoints/fixes on the map and the vertical profile show both distances (IHHS, ALF).

 

 

 

 

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The ILS/LOC 23 does not have a linked DME - which is obvious, because of the missing letter "D". So, in this case ALF has to be in DME-H as stated at the beginning.

 

 

FMS distance: It could very well be a bug within the FMS. Unfortunately, the AS CRJ does have several - some of them have already been reported. If you clean-up the FMS it should always recalculate and show the correct remaining distance. On the other hand, the FMS can only be as precise as the data you provide. E. g. when you program a STAR with a surplus of 60 NM you should always have an alternate means of distance measuring (direct distance to airport, threshold etc.) and arrange your descent according to both values. If the controller cancels the STAR and clears you direct 10 NM final, you will be prepared ... EDDM with its butcher hook arrivals is a good example for that. As a rule of thumb, your descent should be planned so as to reach 10.000 ft AGL at a distance of 30 NM from the airport with a speed of 250 KIAS. Just enter the airport name on the FIX INFO page of the FMS and create a 30 NM circle around it (DIS CROSS).

 

 

[Moridin 85]

On 8/17/2021 at 4:37 PM, KuntaKinte said:

Setup for both RTU: First tune ALF as active frequency, then push the DME-H button (right side of the RTU). You will see the frequency appearing in the middle of the screen with a yellow "H" appended (to delete it lateron, just push the button again). Now you can tune the ILS as active frequency. For a complete setup you should also tune HAM as preselected frequency, because you might need it in case of a go-around.

 

Just tested this at LIEO on ILS23 and it worked like a charm. Thank you for explaining exactly how this works.

[GEK_the_Reaper 233]

Thank you @KuntaKinte for this nice explanation!

 

Because we believe this topic has been answered we have closed it. If you have any more questions feel free to open a new topic.