Jujmental 6 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 I’ve tried so many different flights and am still having an issue of sudden altitude changes and glide slope inaccuracy. It drifts by as much a 2 dots on the GS indicator. I’m below the GS capture altitude to intercept, NAV source is set to LOC when captured, but it’s so inconsistent, it’s sucking all of the fun out of flying the CRJ for me. I have a video the GS variation happening, but the file size is above the maximum, is there anyway I could maybe send a link if I upload the video to YouTube first? Would that help identify the issue? I’m certain I’m doing everything correctly - I’ve watched countless videos and am following those instructions, just to make sure. I’m not a novice flight simmer - I think I know what I’m doing. I’m using Modern flight model, I’ve uninstalled (properly) and reinstalled the latest version 1.0.6.0 from scratch. I can fly the approach with any other aircraft without a problem - it’s only in the CRJ I’m having issues. Please tell me I’m not alone in having these issues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesOReilly 314 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Jujmental said: I’ve tried so many different flights and am still having an issue of sudden altitude changes and glide slope inaccuracy. It drifts by as much a 2 dots on the GS indicator. I’m below the GS capture altitude to intercept, NAV source is set to LOC when captured, but it’s so inconsistent, it’s sucking all of the fun out of flying the CRJ for me. I have a video the GS variation happening, but the file size is above the maximum, is there anyway I could maybe send a link if I upload the video to YouTube first? Would that help identify the issue? I’m certain I’m doing everything correctly - I’ve watched countless videos and am following those instructions, just to make sure. I’m not a novice flight simmer - I think I know what I’m doing. I’m using Modern flight model, I’ve uninstalled (properly) and reinstalled the latest version 1.0.6.0 from scratch. I can fly the approach with any other aircraft without a problem - it’s only in the CRJ I’m having issues. Please tell me I’m not alone in having these issues! What Airport? what approach? and yeah post a video to youtube and put the link here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujmental 6 Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 10 hours ago, LesOReilly said: What Airport? what approach? and yeah post a video to youtube and put the link here... Hi Les - thanks for getting in touch. I've attached a youtube link to the video of the problem. This particular approach is EGLL (ILS DME 27R) though I had the same problem on EGJJ (VOR ILS DME 26) - I've been flying this short hop since the latest update to try and familiarise myself with the new version. I should add that just before the video starts, I was established on approach at 135/140 knots and everything was stable - then the fun started. Sorry for the viewpoint moving around - I was trying to make sure that everything that needed to be seen was in the video, I placed the mouse pointer at specific issues to try and highlight what I was seeing as it unfolded - all of the time trying not to dump my lovely aircraft in the middle of a hounslow industrial estate directly under the approach. Yeah, the aviator in me took over and I was wrestling with the controls a bit! If you can spot anything that I'm doing wrong, do let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetNoise 56 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Hi, I am seeing the same things happen. Especially when you're getting slow, for whatever reason, or/and fast by correcting. The AP seems to never correct itself and catch the GS again, once that has happened. Even when you're back on VRef (and GS). With maintaining VRef all the time the AP is following the GS nicely though. Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujmental 6 Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 53 minutes ago, JetNoise said: Hi, I am seeing the same things happen. Especially when you're getting slow, for whatever reason, or/and fast by correcting. The AP seems to never correct itself and catch the GS again, once that has happened. Even when you're back on VRef (and GS). With maintaining VRef all the time the AP is following the GS nicely though. Oliver Hi Oliver Understood on that, though everything was stable before the GS drifted. I was at a steady 135/140 knots in full landing config before it drifted. It never used to ‘chase’ the GS like that for me before ASOBO launched SU5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetNoise 56 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 vor 3 Minuten, Jujmental sagte: Hi Oliver Understood on that, though everything was stable before the GS drifted. I was at a steady 135/140 knots in full landing config before it drifted. It never used to ‘chase’ the GS like that for me before ASOBO launched SU5. I consider this a new/old bug which may have come back with SU5. As I said, it mostly happens when I am not spot on speed the hole time while being on the GS.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesOReilly 314 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 the closer you get the "smaller" the corrections need to be an the "greater" the deviations will display... When you were trying to get back up you had to put in a lot of thrust.... As it picked up speed and reduced the descent rate you would have needed to start the power reduction a little earlier... We don't see the approach from when you were level and capturing the glide --- though many like to say people here blame the user that not what I am saying -- There very well could be an issue that is getting you off the GS on the start... In addition to that the Reaction of Decrease or Increase in thrust might need to "anticipate" and wait for the LAG of the engine spool... ie once the speed is coming back up and descent is arresting try to reduce the power to get to the level needed to control your descent but so that it aligns with the "dot" coming back in... Otherwise you will have too much and again it can't nose over fast enough that close in and with that much thrust when coming over it looks like it floats a bit as the angle of attack is changing... I will have a go with one of those approaches later this week when I have some time but I am sure others might get to it first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEK_the_Reaper 233 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 vor 5 Stunden , Jujmental sagte: I've attached a youtube link to the video of the problem. Hi @Jujmental this video shows that you are well below VRef and already sinking below the GS. Can you please retry the APPR and capture the GS at about 160Kts and SLOWLY reduce the speed to reach VRef just before TD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetNoise 56 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 vor 47 Minuten, GEK_the_Reaper sagte: Hi @Jujmental this video shows that you are well below VRef and already sinking below the GS. Can you please retry the APPR and capture the GS at about 160Kts and SLOWLY reduce the speed to reach VRef just before TD? But what about getting out of the situation with reasonable power changes, coming back to your VRef, Stable, approaching GS slowly from below ? I did not see the AP catch GS ever again, while the FMA still indicates GS green. I always had to disconnect and fly manually for the rest. There might be still an issue !! (Usually I fly the last part of my approaches manually anyway). I am talking about the initial and middle part of the ILS GS. Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujmental 6 Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, LesOReilly said: the closer you get the "smaller" the corrections need to be an the "greater" the deviations will display... When you were trying to get back up you had to put in a lot of thrust.... As it picked up speed and reduced the descent rate you would have needed to start the power reduction a little earlier... We don't see the approach from when you were level and capturing the glide --- though many like to say people here blame the user that not what I am saying -- There very well could be an issue that is getting you off the GS on the start... In addition to that the Reaction of Decrease or Increase in thrust might need to "anticipate" and wait for the LAG of the engine spool... ie once the speed is coming back up and descent is arresting try to reduce the power to get to the level needed to control your descent but so that it aligns with the "dot" coming back in... Otherwise you will have too much and again it can't nose over fast enough that close in and with that much thrust when coming over it looks like it floats a bit as the angle of attack is changing... I will have a go with one of those approaches later this week when I have some time but I am sure others might get to it first... Thanks Les - hand on heart, I can't recall what speed I would have been carrying when I captured the slope, but I'm guessing at around 160 kts From what you're saying, maybe I'm bleeding off the speed a little early and then I end up amplifying the problem by chasing it. I'll try what you suggest and see how I get on. Thanks for taking the trouble to review my issue and help to resolve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujmental 6 Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, GEK_the_Reaper said: Hi @Jujmental this video shows that you are well below VRef and already sinking below the GS. Can you please retry the APPR and capture the GS at about 160Kts and SLOWLY reduce the speed to reach VRef just before TD? Hi @GEK_the_Reaper thanks for your help. I'll give it a try and pay more attention to my airspeed when initially capturing. I believe it was around 160kts when I originally captured GS (but I wouldn't bet my house on it ) and only started the video once things started to go out of control. I'll pay particular attention to that and give it another go. I'll report back. Thanks for taking the time to help me out with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujmental 6 Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, JetNoise said: I did not see the AP catch GS ever again, while the FMA still indicates GS green. I always had to disconnect and fly manually for the rest. You're right Oliver, it didn't capture properly once I lost it. The green GS stayed constant too, I'm not sure at what deviation from the correct slope that would go out. Maybe someone else knows the answer to that. Thanks for your help with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEK_the_Reaper 233 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 vor 30 Minuten, Jujmental sagte: Hi @GEK_the_Reaper thanks for your help. I'll give it a try and pay more attention to my airspeed when initially capturing. I believe it was around 160kts when I originally captured GS (but I wouldn't bet my house on it ) and only started the video once things started to go out of control. I'll pay particular attention to that and give it another go. I'll report back. Thanks for taking the time to help me out with this. No problem. The CRJ had a custom GS implementation which did no longer work after SU5. There were some changes and none of the testers encountered issues with the new GS (of corse we did not test 200 APPR on 50% of all airports ) so there might be hickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEK_the_Reaper 233 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 vor 1 hour , JetNoise sagte: But what about getting out of the situation with reasonable power changes, coming back to your VRef, Stable, approaching GS slowly from below ? I did not see the AP catch GS ever again, while the FMA still indicates GS green. I always had to disconnect and fly manually for the rest. The CRJ does not do Autolands IRL and you should take control below 500ft. vor 1 hour , JetNoise sagte: There might be still an issue !! Correct. Some things changed with SU5 therefore please report to us any findings (best with videos to rule out missconfigurations of the ACFT). Give us also RWY and APPR where things go wild so we can try to reproduce (mostly flying circuits). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetNoise 56 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Vor 1 Stunde, GEK_the_Reaper sagte: The CRJ does not do Autolands IRL and you should take control below 500ft. I know ;-), I usually take over MUCH earlier - not letting the aircraft have all the fun. Vor 1 Stunde, GEK_the_Reaper sagte: Correct. Some things changed with SU5 therefore please report to us any findings (best with videos to rule out missconfigurations of the ACFT). Give us also RWY and APPR where things go wild so we can try to reproduce (mostly flying circuits). You can take the route from the "North Bug" thread I opened 3 days ago... GCFV/01 VASTO4Z VASTO UN858 AKUDA DCT IXOLI DCT EVURA DCT INBOM DCT ABLEG ABLEG6C LPPR/30 (ILS Z) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEK_the_Reaper 233 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 @JetNoise I think this is another issue...or are we still talking about ILS and GS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetNoise 56 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 vor 1 minute, GEK_the_Reaper sagte: @JetNoise I think this is another issue...or are we still talking about ILS and GS? That thread is a different subject, but you can test the same route as well, because it happened there, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujmental 6 Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 @GEK_the_Reaper @LesOReilly @JetNoise Thanks for your help gents. After trying a couple more approaches, your suggestions about keeping my airspeed up at 160kts at GS intercept - the CRJ absolutely nailed it. The bug never wavered from the central point on the glide slope - I found myself having to be continually ‘tweaking’ the throttle to keep Vref - but that what’s so enjoyable about flying this aircraft, you actually feel in control Thanks again gents, I really appreciate you all taking the trouble to help me out like that, you’ve made an old man very happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetNoise 56 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 vor 6 Minuten, Jujmental sagte: @GEK_the_Reaper @LesOReilly @JetNoise Thanks for your help gents. After trying a couple more approaches, your suggestions about keeping my airspeed up at 160kts at GS intercept - the CRJ absolutely nailed it. The bug never wavered from the central point on the glide slope - I found myself having to be continually ‘tweaking’ the throttle to keep Vref - but that what’s so enjoyable about flying this aircraft, you actually feel in control Thanks again gents, I really appreciate you all taking the trouble to help me out like that, you’ve made an old man very happy Glad it worked out for you, BUT the aircraft should not behave like this, if you do sensible corrections to get it back on GS. @GEK_the_Reaper, basically that issue may be present on all the ILSs, just let the aircraft get below VRef and try to correct back to GS with reasonable power changes.... I'll try tomorrow to reproduce a similar situation... Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujmental 6 Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, JetNoise said: Glad it worked out for you, BUT the aircraft should not behave like this, if you do sensible corrections to get it back on GS. Oliver I think @LesOReilly had a point that I was maybe being a bit heavy handed with the power inputs and ended up chasing the GS bug. I agree with you that you should really be able to return to the correct GS with subtle corrections. I’m going to continue to experiment to see what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEK_the_Reaper 233 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 vor 1 minute, JetNoise sagte: just let the aircraft get below VRef and try to correct back to GS with reasonable power changes.... I'll try tomorrow to reproduce a similar situation... Please don't let the ACFT go below VRef. No pilot IRL will do it. I know how you want the ACFT to behave (and it probably does behave like this IRL) but the CRJ will not simulate "piloting errors". Following GS is a sensitive thing that might get better further in development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetNoise 56 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Vor 1 Stunde, GEK_the_Reaper sagte: Please don't let the ACFT go below VRef. No pilot IRL will do it. I know how you want the ACFT to behave (and it probably does behave like this IRL) but the CRJ will not simulate "piloting errors". Following GS is a sensitive thing that might get better further in development. Dann ist ja eigentlich alles gesagt. I hope that it will be improved in the near future. Again, and as you said, you should never go below VRef, nevertheless the simulation should be close or equal to the real thing. I have never seen this behaviour in many study level aircrafts I fly in the "other" Sim. GA and Tubes, old and new. CRJ 200 included Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEK_the_Reaper 233 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Because we believe this topic has been answered we have closed it. If you have any more questions feel free to open a new topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.