Push buttons hard to press - Legacy Mode

[JEP795 17]

Hi I’m noticing that after SU5 it’s very hard to press the center of the scroll knobs like the heading button to align the heading with current track. It’s very fidgety and most of the time you only get the option to scroll left or right but not press.

 

I’m using legacy mode. Is this a known issue? 
 

Thanks

Jonathan 

[Dross 7]

Same here, can't push scroll knobs anymore. No issues on other planes.

[Aplato 133]

It's a [poorly designed] change made by Asobo. I've only used Legacy mode rather than the new system designed for Xbox, but even then you have to right click on the knob buttons before you can left click them. It's really a pretty minor annoyance but hopefully that gets changed in the future.

[Dross 7]

I'm currently flying the TBM and I can push knob button without issues. It's not a global regression, it's only on the CRJ on my side.

[GEK_the_Reaper 233]

@Dross  @JEP795 look here:

 

[JEP795 17]

4 hours ago, GEK_the_Reaper said:

@Dross  @JEP795 look here:

 

Thanks for the response, but I think that only refers to the new lock control method. Please correct me if I’m wrong. I did not like that new mode  since I feel it takes a way from the realism and I switched back to legacy mode for controlling knobs and switches so that I can control it the same way I did in the past. 
 

Looking forward to a response.

 

Respectfully,

Jonathan

[Puuhbear 114]

vor 12 Minuten, JEP795 sagte:

Thanks for the response, but I think that only refers to the new lock control method. Please correct me if I’m wrong. I did not like that new mode  since I feel it takes a way from the realism and I switched back to legacy mode for controlling knobs and switches so that I can control it the same way I did in the past. 
 

Looking forward to a response.

 

Respectfully,

Jonathan

It doesn't matter if you are on lock or legacy mode. you have to rightclick the button first to do a leftclick to the center button on those switches

[JEP795 17]

Oh ok didn’t think that applied to legacy. Will give it a try! Thanks! 

[zenit_swe 90]

Well, I have issues with this as well. I'm using legacy mode but a right click doesn't do anything. If I want to press the button on a knob (e.g. HDG knob) I have to move the mouse cursors in from a position below and to the right of the knob with a certain speed and it usually takes like 10 tries before I get it. I haven't tried it, but someone mentioned that you need to use the default mouse profile. If you have a copy of that profile it doesn't work even though you haven't changed anything.

 

I have a copy if the default mouse profile for two reasons. The first is that I got tired of constantly zooming in and out while turning knobs so I changed that assignment so that I need to press the right mouse button while scrolling in order to zoom. The second reason is that I have the PMDG DC-6 which have a custom mouse interaction style that requires users to map cockpit view lock to something other than the default binding.

 

However, I don't think this is something Aerosoft can do anything about. Unfortunately

[Dross 7]

10 hours ago, GEK_the_Reaper said:

@Dross  @JEP795 look here:

 

 

I'm indeed able to click with a right click/left click sequence, but I still don't agree with the "it's the new interaction system" argument, please see the following examples:

 

All those gifs has been taken with the last version of MSFS.

 

Asobo TBM930:

Please login to display this image.

 

FlyByWire A32NX:

Please login to display this image.

 

Aerosoft CRJ:

Please login to display this image.

 

If it was really a new paradigm, I would not have those behaviors on Asobo and other team's planes.

 

 

[Aplato 133]

3 minutes ago, Dross said:

 

I'm indeed able to click with a right click/left click sequence, but I still don't agree with the "it's the new interaction system" argument, please see the following examples.

 

 

It's definitely not something that affects all aircraft as your images conclusively demonstrates, but it is the result of a change Asobo made, not Aerosoft. I believe Hans said the controls would be reworked to avoid this annoying behavior, but said it's a significant task so we shouldn't expect this anytime soon.

[Tom A320 4915]

FYI

 

 

[Dross 7]

Oh ok, we'll have to wait then.

[GEK_the_Reaper 233]

vor 11 Stunden , zenit_swe sagte:

Well, I have issues with this as well. I'm using legacy mode but a right click doesn't do anything. If I want to press the button on a knob (e.g. HDG knob) I have to move the mouse cursors in from a position below and to the right of the knob with a certain speed and it usually takes like 10 tries before I get it. I haven't tried it, but someone mentioned that you need to use the default mouse profile. If you have a copy of that profile it doesn't work even though you haven't changed anything.

 

I have a copy if the default mouse profile for two reasons. The first is that I got tired of constantly zooming in and out while turning knobs so I changed that assignment so that I need to press the right mouse button while scrolling in order to zoom. The second reason is that I have the PMDG DC-6 which have a custom mouse interaction style that requires users to map cockpit view lock to something other than the default binding.

 

However, I don't think this is something Aerosoft can do anything about. Unfortunately

It works. As already posted several times you have to assign the actions to your Mouse buttons!

 

I bet your Mouse Profile is not DEFAULT.

I bet that if you choose the DEFAULT profile of the Mouse, it will suddenly work 100%.

[GEK_the_Reaper 233]

vor 10 Stunden , Dross sagte:

I'm indeed able to click with a right click/left click sequence, but I still don't agree with the "it's the new interaction system" argument, please see the following examples:

 

The CRJ shares code between P3D and MSFS. Due to the fact that basic interaction in MSFS changed (no right click - see FAQ), some adaptation had been done.

This adaptation worked flawlessly prior SU5 or didn't it?

 

Nevertheless it is getting looked at: some do like this behaviour because they turn knobs by holding mouse click (and don't accidentaly press the middle button) some don't.

[zenit_swe 90]

48 minutes ago, GEK_the_Reaper said:

It works. As already posted several times you have to assign the actions to your Mouse buttons!

 

I bet your Mouse Profile is not DEFAULT.

I bet that if you choose the DEFAULT profile of the Mouse, it will suddenly work 100%.

Man, I mean no disrespect but did you even read my post before replying to it? In the second half of the first section I explain that one seem to have to use the default profile. And the rest of the whole post is an explanation of why I use a slightly modified copy of the default profile.

[GEK_the_Reaper 233]

vor 27 Minuten, zenit_swe sagte:

Man, I mean no disrespect but did you even read my post before replying to it? In the second half of the first section I explain that one seem to have to use the default profile. And the rest of the whole post is an explanation of why I use a slightly modified copy of the default profile.

Sorry mate...reading my answer to your post again, I figured out I was not realy clear in my response (sorry for that).

 

So I read your post and I understood why you created the new profiles (I also have new profiles because I deleted the ZOOM thingie and other assignements).

 

What I am missing is that you did not specify IF it works on DEFAULT!!!

 

 

Vor 1 Stunde, GEK_the_Reaper sagte:

so I changed that assignment so that I need to press the right mouse button while scrolling in order to zoom

This could be the reason why your newly created profile does not work (you assigned the right click to another action).

 

 

PS: IIRC you can set up different Profiles with different ACFT and the profile will automaticaly load upon ACFT selection....

[Dross 7]

9 hours ago, GEK_the_Reaper said:

 

The CRJ shares code between P3D and MSFS. Due to the fact that basic interaction in MSFS changed (no right click - see FAQ), some adaptation had been done.

This adaptation worked flawlessly prior SU5 or didn't it?

 

Nevertheless it is getting looked at: some do like this behaviour because they turn knobs by holding mouse click (and don't accidentaly press the middle button) some don't.

 

You know, I'm a developer too. And when I have a bug due to a dependency, sure I can explain "why" it has broke, but I would not tell my customers that the strange behavior they are observing is "normal" or is "the new way to do thing" especially when it's obvious it's not the case (this behavior is not normal since all the other planes behave differently, as I've shown previously).

 

Personally I do turn knobs by holding mouse click and I don't like the idea to have to click two buttons instead of one, especially on the heading one since it occurs a lot on a single flight.

 

It's OK to have your product broken by a dependency.

But having those posts and documents stating that "it's not a bug" when your product got a regression and is not behaving like the other planes in the sim anymore is an another story, that's just not respectful of your customers, since - for a lot of people - a regression will be reported as ""a bug"".

 

I understand that it can't be fixed due to your actual implementations and codebase. I really do.

But state it as it is, the new behavior (like it or not) is due to an incompatibility with your product and SU5 and it can't be fixed easily for now. And that would be honest and totally acceptable.

 

[Puuhbear 114]

not sure why nobody noticed, but it's because of the type of button in the crj, that I haven't seen in any other aircraft so far.

there ARE buttons in the CRJ that in legacy mode behave like they have been before SU5. the DH/MDA button for example. but that is not a button where the middle part is sinking inside of the rotary.

 

claiming "no other aircraft does this" seems to be pretty unfair, when no other plane has controls like that. 

 

so I guess this is either a designchange by asobo or a bug in the MSFS that can not be solved easyly outside of the sim.

but blaming each other is not helping anyone here, the only thing we users can do is tell what is happening and wait

BTW stop compairing aircrafts... it's as if you're comparing a F1 car with a GT car... both racecars, but completely different. 

[GEK_the_Reaper 233]

vor 1 hour , Dross sagte:

 

You know, I'm a developer too. And when I have a bug due to a dependency, sure I can explain "why" it has broke, but I would not tell my customers that the strange behavior they are observing is "normal" or is "the new way to do thing" especially when it's obvious it's not the case (this behavior is not normal since all the other planes behave differently, as I've shown previously).

 

Personally I do turn knobs by holding mouse click and I don't like the idea to have to click two buttons instead of one, especially on the heading one since it occurs a lot on a single flight.

 

It's OK to have your product broken by a dependency.

But having those posts and documents stating that "it's not a bug" when your product got a regression and is not behaving like the other planes in the sim anymore is an another story, that's just not respectful of your customers, since - for a lot of people - a regression will be reported as ""a bug"".

 

I understand that it can't be fixed due to your actual implementations and codebase. I really do.

But state it as it is, the new behavior (like it or not) is due to an incompatibility with your product and SU5 and it can't be fixed easily for now. And that would be honest and totally acceptable.

 

Dear @Dross,

 

I read a bit of a tone out of your writing and I hope I'm mistaking.

 

1. Did you have any issues before SU5?

2. Did this "issue" started after SU5?

-more important-

3. Have you read this statement of mine?

vor 10 Stunden , GEK_the_Reaper sagte:

Nevertheless it is getting looked at

 

Again and for the last time: This worked before SU5 and "changed" after SU5. We (and the DEV) are looking into this to find solutions. In this state for example, VR is not usable with the CRJ.

Would you have prefered to keep the launch of the update until a solution is found or are you glad that the update is out and (at least for time beeing) you have to use right click to push 4 of the buttons?

[Dross 7]

I'm not criticizing the current state of the plane: but the communication done about the current state of plane.

 

In your first response to the thread you're redirecting to a pinned post, that is linking to a PDF, that is stating "However, this is not a bug. It is just a part of the new cockpit interaction system". The underlying message is "it's totally normal, nothing wrong here" (a "it's not a bug, it's a feature" equivalent). 

 

But in other threads the dev himself acknowledge the issue and is stating that he will be working on it and it will take time since it's not trivial to fix.

 

My point: your pinned and more visible communication should acknowledge there is a behavior regression (because there is) that is due to something out of your control and that there is currently a workaround to make it work. Not trying to push the idea that "oh well, it's better anyway" when people are explicitly complaining about it.

 

 

 

[GEK_the_Reaper 233]

vor 3 Stunden , Dross sagte:

In your first response to the thread you're redirecting to a pinned post, that is linking to a PDF, that is stating "However, this is not a bug. It is just a part of the new cockpit interaction system". The underlying message is "it's totally normal, nothing wrong here" (a "it's not a bug, it's a feature" equivalent). 

And again: this statement is absolutely correct! As you can read in the document the interaction system changed due to the release of the XBOX version. So no, it is not a BUG of the CRJ but a new interraction system!

At that point nobody (not even you) knew that the system (as in current state) does not work in VR! This is why the team is looking for a solution (and not because its a workaround or BUG). If it would have worked in VR, it would have probably remained untouched or moved down the list until other higher priority stuff gets attention.

[Dross 7]

You seem to forgot that your product is not alone and isolated on its remote little island, its part of a simulator and ecosystem where the common behavior to set a course is this one:

 

Please login to display this image.

 

And this was the previous behavior on the CRJ as well.

 

People will be puzzled by the current behavior you are having on your side and they will either consider it's a bug, that the CRJ is dysfunctional, or even come here to post the same bug report as this one, and honestly that will be highly understandable.

 

Let me ask you something: what is preventing you to get rid of the animated knob (the animation doesn't add much, it's a nice to have feature) to a fixed one and get the generally used behavior back? A behavior every one is expecting since it's the behavior we have in the other planes and also was the old one in the CRJ?

[LesOReilly 314]

28 minutes ago, Dross said:

You seem to forgot that your product is not alone and isolated on its remote little island, its part of a simulator and ecosystem where the common behavior to set a course is this one:

 

Please login to display this image.

 

And this was the previous behavior on the CRJ as well.

 

People will be puzzled by the current behavior you are having on your side and they will either consider it's a bug, that the CRJ is dysfunctional, or even come here to post the same bug report as this one, and honestly that will be highly understandable.

 

Let me ask you something: what is preventing you to get rid of the animated knob (the animation doesn't add much, it's a nice to have feature) to a fixed one and get the generally used behavior back? A behavior every one is expecting since it's the behavior we have in the other planes and also was the old one in the CRJ?

currently even with the CJ4 you have to Hold Left Mouse button and click with the Right Button on the -- HDG/BARO/REF knobs that are similar style to the CRJ.

 

I am not sure why you keep going at this?  Are you looking for someone to tell you "you are right?"....  

 

You were answered and linked to information but you keep on going.......

 

[Dross 7]

I'm right as much as GEK_the_Reaper is right on his own perspective.

 

I'm just sharing another perspective, that's all. If it can help the team (since I wont be the only one to think this way, for the reasons I've developed) that's great. If not, I lost my time and that's it.