CaptCherrie 6 Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Since Asobo's World Update, aircraft flaps and spoilers deploy to 50% when returning from the menu. This happens with the CRJ700 and Asobo aircraft. However behave differently in the CRJ. When returning from the menu, flaps will deploy to Flaps 8 (50%) which is shown on the EICAS, external flight model but not on the flaps lever in the cockpit. The spoilers deploy to 50% (as observed on other Asobo aircraft), but do not show they are deployed on the external flight model, EICAS or spoilers lever. They will sometimes show on the external flight model but only at approximately 1/8th deployed. I noticed the spoilers were deployed when at MAX thrust I was only climbing at 900fpm after takeoff in SPD mode set to a climb of 180 knots. After deploying and then retracting the spoilers, I needed to stay at MAX thrust to climb at more than 900fpm. CLB only provided less than 300fpm which could indicate that the axis is not reaching its dead zone. Upon landing after resetting the spoilers to the retracted position with joystick axis showing 0% and the cockpit lever showing 0, the Master Caution intermittently kept flashing FLT SPLR DEPLOY every 3 seconds. Fuel & Payload was done via SimBrief with a payload of 11,700lbs and 7,500lbs of fuel and are typical of the 80 or so flights I have done since the release of the CRJ700. I repeated this on a second flight and have the same issue. I have only tested this with the 700 and not the 550. Screenshots show what cockpit shows v the external model on a separate test flight with debug window. At this point in time the spoilers were not showing as deployed in debug or animation or indication however the Master Caution debug kept going from 0 to 1 every 3 seconds. Also when resetting the spoilers to be at 0 via the joystick axis, only 1 out of 3 times does the ASCRJ_SPOILER_SET variable reach 0. The other 2 out of 3 times, the value will stop anywhere from 5-20 which explains why I was unable to climb effectively in the CLB gate and had to use MAX. Please login to display this image. Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexvv 1 Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 I've been having the same problem with spoilers not retracting, even before the update. I find that I have to very slowly move the spoiler lever for them to fully retract in the plane. If I quickly move it to 0, the spoiler lever in the plane shows 0, but they are not retracted. I can see them still slightly up on the flight controls page in the eicas. My axes are all fully calibrated and I haven't had this issue with any other plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted April 16, 2021 Aerosoft Share Posted April 16, 2021 check this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCherrie 6 Posted April 18, 2021 Author Share Posted April 18, 2021 On 4/17/2021 at 3:11 AM, Mathijs Kok said: check this: This isn't the issue. When pressing escape and returning back into the simulator, the simulator is receiving a phantom value of 50% for the flaps and spoilers. This is fine on Asobo aircraft because their systems register this phantom value and alert the user. The issue is that the CRJ does not reflect the flaps value in the lever change but does on the EICAS and model animation, but in no way registers that the spoilers are deployed on the EICAS, spoilers lever or animation. To fix this as a user, all you do is move the spoilers and flaps levers a tiny bit and they will re-register with what they are actually at. On 4/17/2021 at 2:45 AM, alexvv said: I've been having the same problem with spoilers not retracting, even before the update. I find that I have to very slowly move the spoiler lever for them to fully retract in the plane. If I quickly move it to 0, the spoiler lever in the plane shows 0, but they are not retracted. I can see them still slightly up on the flight controls page in the eicas. My axes are all fully calibrated and I haven't had this issue with any other plane. I'm starting to realise this too. Have only had the TCA Addon for 3 weeks and moving it too quickly will not register the movement in the CRJ. You have to slowly move the lever to its extremes for it to register 0 or 100%. Otherwise move the lever at a normal pace, it doesn't reach its extremes and leaving the flaps deployed still at 5-25%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCherrie 6 Posted April 18, 2021 Author Share Posted April 18, 2021 5 hours ago, CaptCherrie said: Otherwise move the lever at a normal pace, it doesn't reach its extremes and leaving the flaps deployed still at 5-25%. Meant spoilers deployed still at 5-25%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpian007 5 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Same issue for me too with WU IV. Previously the issue happened when I had the TM Quadrant, without the Spoilers/Flaps add-on so I unbound those and it worked fine. Now I have the add-on, I added them back in which was working OK until the latest WU. Happens on all aircraft, annoying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft SimWare 729 Posted April 19, 2021 Aerosoft Share Posted April 19, 2021 If needed in the meantime, use the INCREASE FLAPS and DECREASE FLAPS functions assigned to buttons: These are not axis dependant : Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCherrie 6 Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 1 hour ago, SimWare said: If needed in the meantime, use the INCREASE FLAPS and DECREASE FLAPS functions assigned to buttons: These are not axis dependant : It's not a major issue if you know what is happening. But with those people out there who haven't figured out that the CRJ has 50% spoilers out after coming form the menu or starting a flight will think something is seriously wrong with the aircraft since the update. I know the CRJ is built different to Asobo aircraft, but would be good for the CRJ systems to register that the axis had a phantom input with the spoiler like it does with the flaps until the problem is fixed by Asobo would be good and that the spoiler inputs reach their extremes no matter what speed you move the axis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft SimWare 729 Posted April 19, 2021 Aerosoft Share Posted April 19, 2021 We will check this. Thanks Captain.☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT_Pilot 0 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I was having a similar issue with the FBW A320 (using the TCA quadrant), although it started happening before WU4. When I paused the flight (using escape) and then resumed, full flaps and spoilers would extend. I found a solution through the MSFS forums which worked for me so it is worth trying. It was to do with the default button bindings for the TCA quadrant, and to work it will require that you do not also use the additional Thrustmaster Airbus quadrant peripherals which control the flaps and speed brakes amongst others. If you don't you'll probably notice that all the commands for the buttons and levers on these addon units will be listed for the throttle unit profile regardless. The advice I found was to delete all the assignments that apply to the add on units so all that you are left with are those that solely apply to just the throttle unit. This solved the issue for me on the A320 and having done the same for my CRJ throttle profile, I have not experienced the problem with the CRJ. I guess those extra unnecessary assignments are somehow sending these phantom commands. Hope it offers a solution for you all having the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCherrie 6 Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 3 hours ago, SimWare said: We will check this. Thanks Captain.☺ Have done a video showing the issue. Scenario is climbing at 250 knots in CLB SPD as you can see on the PDF. I then go to the menu and back into flight where then you will see on the left EICAS that the flaps have been deployed to Flaps 8 but the lever is not shown to have moved. I reset the flaps by moving my Thrustmaster axis from the 0 to 1 to 0 position and you'll see the flaps fully retract and the indication disappears from the EICAS. As I said above, this animation is shown in the external model. I then let the plane settle and you will see that the spoilers lever is in the retracted position like the flaps. There is no EICAS message (the dash is blocking the top but I guarantee there is no message) nor is it shown in the outside model animation however I am only climbing at 1000fpm. I then move the Thrustmaster spoiler axis into the 1/2 position and you will see that the climb rate fluctuates for a second but then returns to 1000fpm after it settles. I then retract the axis to 0% and then the plane begins to climb at a normal rate of +3000fpm. 3 hours ago, JT_Pilot said: I was having a similar issue with the FBW A320 (using the TCA quadrant), although it started happening before WU4. When I paused the flight (using escape) and then resumed, full flaps and spoilers would extend. I found a solution through the MSFS forums which worked for me so it is worth trying. It was to do with the default button bindings for the TCA quadrant, and to work it will require that you do not also use the additional Thrustmaster Airbus quadrant peripherals which control the flaps and speed brakes amongst others. If you don't you'll probably notice that all the commands for the buttons and levers on these addon units will be listed for the throttle unit profile regardless. The advice I found was to delete all the assignments that apply to the add on units so all that you are left with are those that solely apply to just the throttle unit. This solved the issue for me on the A320 and having done the same for my CRJ throttle profile, I have not experienced the problem with the CRJ. I guess those extra unnecessary assignments are somehow sending these phantom commands. Hope it offers a solution for you all having the issue. This issue is with the TCA Throttle Quadrant with the attached TCA Addon. I know if you didn't have the TCA Addon, by default those were mapped and would get phantom inputs when going from the menu into the simulator so you would need to unmap all the axis and keys you didn't have but this is with the final product all connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft SimWare 729 Posted April 19, 2021 Aerosoft Share Posted April 19, 2021 By phantom inputs, do you mean the virtual buttons ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesOReilly 314 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Yes he means the Virtual buttons... But also that for those that don't have the TCA Addons --- well they are just extensions of the main throttle... Their buttons and Axis are still part of the Standard HID Device... This is why I map all my stuff in external applications... I find the MSFS bindings to be limiting ... and then yes they assign stuff to be "helpful" but not everyone has the Add On Pack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCherrie 6 Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 7 hours ago, SimWare said: By phantom inputs, do you mean the virtual buttons ? By phantom inputs, I mean the computer is making inputs out of nowhere that is not made be the user through devices. I have the entire TCA Quadrant with TCA Addon aka with the flaps and spoilers controls. The main issue is the CRJ shows no indication that a phantom input has been made with the spoilers leaving the user unknown to the fact that the spoilers are now halfway deployed after returning from the menu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesOReilly 314 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I went in and out of them menu multiple times last night with the TCA Add ON which has Spoilers and Flaps assigned to the Axis via NON MSFS bindings... Same as my throttles and I experience none of the issues... so in and out of menu No flaps or spoilers deployed.... moving throttles ... No surging.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCherrie 6 Posted April 21, 2021 Author Share Posted April 21, 2021 4 hours ago, LesOReilly said: I went in and out of them menu multiple times last night with the TCA Add ON which has Spoilers and Flaps assigned to the Axis via NON MSFS bindings... Same as my throttles and I experience none of the issues... so in and out of menu No flaps or spoilers deployed.... moving throttles ... No surging.... What do you mean "via non MSFS bindings"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesOReilly 314 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 11 hours ago, CaptCherrie said: What do you mean "via non MSFS bindings"? Using things like Spad.Next, AAO or FSUIPC ... In my case I use SPAD.neXt and an example: I drive throttle 1 with -- THROTTLE1_AXIS_SET_EX1 -- Simconnect controls that were added to the MSFS SDK. These Allow the external applications to drive the bindings so nothing is bound inside of MSFS for me.... Also makes it easy since when I change planes the assignments all change automatically for me... Anyway it seems like if you drive those then everything seems to work fine and I don't see these surges or control issues like others. Now I am pretty sure it has been posted a few times that the devs have a solution and will deal with it in an update..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCherrie 6 Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 10 hours ago, LesOReilly said: Using things like Spad.Next, AAO or FSUIPC ... In my case I use SPAD.neXt and an example: I drive throttle 1 with -- THROTTLE1_AXIS_SET_EX1 -- Simconnect controls that were added to the MSFS SDK. These Allow the external applications to drive the bindings so nothing is bound inside of MSFS for me.... Also makes it easy since when I change planes the assignments all change automatically for me... Anyway it seems like if you drive those then everything seems to work fine and I don't see these surges or control issues like others. Now I am pretty sure it has been posted a few times that the devs have a solution and will deal with it in an update..... I use SPAD.neXt as well for my Logitech panels but people shouldn’t have to have third party custom software just so their planes work perfectly with plug and play devices into the Simulator. As I said the issue isn’t that Asobo have stuffed up again with sending phantom inputs when returning from the menu. The issue is for Aerosoft that the CRJ in no way displays the spoiler phantom inputs so users have no in dictation that the spoiler is deployed to 50% like it does with the flaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesOReilly 314 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 If they don't display it.... then it sounds like MSFS does not update the SDK events that they have access to... I would love to see MSFS to enable the SDK to the levels we have with P3D or better with how they are with XPLane.... The Sim also should not be firing events ... that is a bug... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCherrie 6 Posted April 25, 2021 Author Share Posted April 25, 2021 On 4/23/2021 at 6:02 AM, LesOReilly said: If they don't display it.... then it sounds like MSFS does not update the SDK events that they have access to... I would love to see MSFS to enable the SDK to the levels we have with P3D or better with how they are with XPLane.... The Sim also should not be firing events ... that is a bug... Yes, it shouldn't be firing off events, but it does... and there is a subsequent issue that severely affects the performance of the aircraft without alerting the user. If we don't deal with the bugs after updates, then we might as well walk away from developing add-ons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesOReilly 314 Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 9 hours ago, CaptCherrie said: Yes, it shouldn't be firing off events, but it does... and there is a subsequent issue that severely affects the performance of the aircraft without alerting the user. If we don't deal with the bugs after updates, then we might as well walk away from developing add-ons. okay your "frustration" is not invalidated or "wrong".... But if the Simulator does not provide the level of SDK integration like we get with P3D or XPlane... I don't understand how laying the issue at the feet of the 3rd party developer to fix. I actually have started to feel bad for Aerosoft... Many of the other 3rd party devs have stayed on the sideline while waiting for changes and improvements to the SDK... as stated. Aerosoft have jumped in (and yes there is a financial benifit...) and taken on the task of being the first "real" 3rd party Dev to put a study level sim into the mix ... even WT with the CJ4 has stated that they "hack" things to make the VC present once set of data while under the hood they drive the Sim Auto Pilot. Which also means that peoples Saitek panels dont really work... Heading and VS was used...etc.. I mean FBW did not even enable turning on the Battery from external source until just recently in the Dev/Exp builds.... They are slowly exposing a custom autopilot that works in the same way of exposing extra LVARs to control the FBW which then under the hood is controlling the "stock" autopilot... Jean-Luc from Reality XP has posted numerous submissions and solutions for MSFS to be more like XPlane or even just the workaround that they can implement in FSX/P3D that are now blocked.... Thousands of extra "customers" are now available due to the launch and release of MSFS... If the SDK is not updating the "sandbox" then I don't understand how we yell at the wall and demand that the wall open the door.... If you have read this far thank you... We need to collectively pressure Asobo to care about the "real simmer"... Currently the drive is for getting this title to XBOX and a launch that will sell millions and millions of units.... To people using an XBOX controller :(.... we are in a very niche market in the view of the greater "video gamer" industry... I am not attacking you or anyone... I am just as frustrated about stuff as I was years ago... Though I would just like more LVARS and direct access to all of their data... Thanks for your time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCherrie 6 Posted April 26, 2021 Author Share Posted April 26, 2021 11 hours ago, LesOReilly said: okay your "frustration" is not invalidated or "wrong".... But if the Simulator does not provide the level of SDK integration like we get with P3D or XPlane... I don't understand how laying the issue at the feet of the 3rd party developer to fix. I actually have started to feel bad for Aerosoft... Many of the other 3rd party devs have stayed on the sideline while waiting for changes and improvements to the SDK... as stated. Aerosoft have jumped in (and yes there is a financial benifit...) and taken on the task of being the first "real" 3rd party Dev to put a study level sim into the mix ... even WT with the CJ4 has stated that they "hack" things to make the VC present once set of data while under the hood they drive the Sim Auto Pilot. Which also means that peoples Saitek panels dont really work... Heading and VS was used...etc.. I mean FBW did not even enable turning on the Battery from external source until just recently in the Dev/Exp builds.... They are slowly exposing a custom autopilot that works in the same way of exposing extra LVARs to control the FBW which then under the hood is controlling the "stock" autopilot... Jean-Luc from Reality XP has posted numerous submissions and solutions for MSFS to be more like XPlane or even just the workaround that they can implement in FSX/P3D that are now blocked.... Thousands of extra "customers" are now available due to the launch and release of MSFS... If the SDK is not updating the "sandbox" then I don't understand how we yell at the wall and demand that the wall open the door.... If you have read this far thank you... We need to collectively pressure Asobo to care about the "real simmer"... Currently the drive is for getting this title to XBOX and a launch that will sell millions and millions of units.... To people using an XBOX controller :(.... we are in a very niche market in the view of the greater "video gamer" industry... I am not attacking you or anyone... I am just as frustrated about stuff as I was years ago... Though I would just like more LVARS and direct access to all of their data... Thanks for your time.... The SDK is continually being updated and developed and you are taking comments from developers from 6 months ago about the SDK regarding complicated flight systems and dynamics and saying they are still relevant. Aerosoft probably have the best contact with Asobo about getting things fixed but I don't think spoiler and flaps axis is an issue to do with the SDK but more of a bug and/or oversight in a variable not being linked with Asobos default variables and the variables that Aerosoft are using. The flaps is being registered as being moved by a phantom input so I would assume the spoilers would be too in the SDK, its just not linked to display with Aerosofts model yet. What I'm trying to avoid is Aerosoft getting negative comments and blamed for a broken aircraft because people don't realise who are using the number 1 selling throttle quadrant that the spoiler is deployed at 50% for the entire flight. I know the problem exists and I know how to fix it and avoid it. If I was selfish, I wouldn't tell anyone. I care about the real simmer and community and Aerosoft have the best voice to get Asobo to fix things along with PMDG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyFuzzy 88 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 This is a sim issue and has been widely reported and currently affects all aircraft and any controllers assigning any controls to an axis (to my knowledge). It has been noted this is even happening for aileron and elevator position too, though much less noticeable. Some people have worked around this by unplugging their rudder pedals though I haven’t been interested in trying this myself, I’m just making sure I’m aware that this will happen if I press Esc at the moment. Hoping Asobo addresses this in the upcoming sim update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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