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CRJ700 EFB W&B doesn't affect actual weight of the aircraft.


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When pressing "Set Payload in Simulator" after setting the weights in the EFB, I would expect it to change the weight of the aircraft in the MSFS weight menu too. Unfortunately, it does not seem to sync the weights and has an inaccurate CG. I have fully updated it and I have this problem with the CRJ550 too.

Microsoft Flight Simulator Screenshot 2021.04.01 - 16.07.21.74.png

Microsoft Flight Simulator Screenshot 2021.04.01 - 16.07.10.28.png

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1 hour ago, MrGalfano7899 said:

When pressing "Set Payload in Simulator" after setting the weights in the EFB, I would expect it to change the weight of the aircraft in the MSFS weight menu too. Unfortunately, it does not seem to sync the weights and has an inaccurate CG. I have fully updated it and I have this problem with the CRJ550 too.

Microsoft Flight Simulator Screenshot 2021.04.01 - 16.07.21.74.png

Microsoft Flight Simulator Screenshot 2021.04.01 - 16.07.10.28.png

its completely broken, I've been reporting this from day one.

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vor 16 Stunden , MrGalfano7899 sagte:

When pressing "Set Payload in Simulator" after setting the weights in the EFB, I would expect it to change the weight of the aircraft in the MSFS weight menu too. Unfortunately, it does not seem to sync the weights and has an inaccurate CG. I have fully updated it and I have this problem with the CRJ550 too.

 

 

 

vor 14 Stunden , Pilot53 sagte:

its completely broken, I've been reporting this from day one.

 

No it's not completely broken but as also replied to all other topics about MSFS Weight and Balance screen: Please do not use that! MSFS will distribute the weight different then the EFB. Please use only the EFB to load up the CRJ and fly and don't even bother to reopen that MSFS window again.

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17 minutes ago, GEK_the_Reaper said:

 

 

No it's not completely broken but as also replied to all other topics about MSFS Weight and Balance screen: Please do not use that! MSFS will distribute the weight different then the EFB. Please use only the EFB to load up the CRJ and fly and don't even bother to reopen that MSFS window again.

If it's not "completely broken", could you explain what works and what doesn't? If we change the weight using the EFB, and then set payload in the sim, will that work? This is a bit vague and does not help understand what works. 

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5 minutes ago, MultiMediaWill said:

If it's not "completely broken", could you explain what works and what doesn't? If we change the weight using the EFB, and then set payload in the sim, will that work? This is a bit vague and does not help understand what works. 

 

Have you followed the other topics about this?

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14 hours ago, Pilot53 said:

its completely broken, I've been reporting this from day one.

It is not broken. Changing the pax and cargo weights in the EFB menu absolutely does affect the aircraft loading.

 

You can easily demonstrate this for yourself. Load the aircraft. It is not even necessary to power it up. Change your view so you can see the EFB screen and also see out of the pilot side window.

 

Set the EFB passenger and cargo weights all to zero. Do not change the default fuel weight. Press the "send to simulator" button. In the pilot's window view you will immediately see  the entire aircraft spring upwards a few inches as the initial default weight is removed.

 

If you now set passenger and cargo weights to maximum, and press "send to simulator" again, you will see the entire aircraft squat down a few inches as weight is added.  

 

The problem that exists at the moment is that there is a communication issue between the CRJ and the default MSFS loading menu. When fuel loads are changed in the EFB, those changes are immediately reflected back to the MSFS load menu, but changes to passenger and cargo loads are notThis does not mean that the internal aircraft weight and CG is not changing - it most certainly is. 

 

This may be a problem at the MSFS end - this is still being investigated. While we would certainly like to see the default loading menu accurately reflect changes to the pax and cargo loading made in the EFB, (and changes to the total weight that result), this is not a high-priority item to fix, because the aircraft loading was designed to be managed using the EFB, and only the EFB. It was never intended that the default MSFS loading menu would (or should) be used.

 

Any changes to either passenger or cargo weights made in the default MSFS load menu will be applied to the aircraft, but the distribution of the weight and the CG will be wrong, any weight and CG data shown on the EFB from that point forward will no longer be valid. 

 

 

 

 

 

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@JRBarrett @Hans Hartmann

 

I have noticed that when I press the "send to sim " button 2 times .... the CG icon changes position also 2 times in the EFB ( despite the numbers being equal .. not adapting in. any way ). After the 2nd time ... it will not move anymore and all looks loaded correctly.

 

Could it be that people need to press 2 times and things will be correct ?? Used 55 pax ... 1400 KG freight ... 4800KG fuel.

Can not check myself the next few days unfortunately.

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1 hour ago, JRBarrett said:

It is not broken. Changing the pax and cargo weights in the EFB menu absolutely does affect the aircraft loading.

 

You can easily demonstrate this for yourself. Load the aircraft. It is not even necessary to power it up. Change your view so you can see the EFB screen and also see out of the pilot side window.

 

Set the EFB passenger and cargo weights all to zero. Do not change the default fuel weight. Press the "send to simulator" button. In the pilot's window view you will immediately see  the entire aircraft spring upwards a few inches as the initial default weight is removed.

 

If you now set passenger and cargo weights to maximum, and press "send to simulator" again, you will see the entire aircraft squat down a few inches as weight is added.  

 

The problem that exists at the moment is that there is a communication issue between the CRJ and the default MSFS loading menu. When fuel loads are changed in the EFB, those changes are immediately reflected back to the MSFS load menu, but changes to passenger and cargo loads are notThis does not mean that the internal aircraft weight and CG is not changing - it most certainly is. 

 

This may be a problem at the MSFS end - this is still being investigated. While we would certainly like to see the default loading menu accurately reflect changes to the pax and cargo loading made in the EFB, (and changes to the total weight that result), this is not a high-priority item to fix, because the aircraft loading was designed to be managed using the EFB, and only the EFB. It was never intended that the default MSFS loading menu would (or should) be used.

 

Any changes to either passenger or cargo weights made in the default MSFS load menu will be applied to the aircraft, but the distribution of the weight and the CG will be wrong, any weight and CG data shown on the EFB from that point forward will no longer be valid. 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem is, you never get the weights that you set in the efb.  So you cant "just use the efb", because you will have an underweight aircraft as it does not load enough cargo or pax weight, when you check the TOW in the sim it is always much lower than the EFB value even after you send it to the sim.  Im not sure why this is considered a low priority, its a pretty big issue unless you edit the weights manually. 

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20 minutes ago, DGH said:

@JRBarrett @Hans Hartmann

 

I have noticed that when I press the "send to sim " button 2 times .... the CG icon changes position also 2 times in the EFB ( despite the numbers being equal .. not adapting in. any way ). After the 2nd time ... it will not move anymore and all looks loaded correctly.

 

Could it be that people need to press 2 times and things will be correct ?? Used 55 pax ... 1400 KG freight ... 4800KG fuel.

Can not check myself the next few days unfortunately.

I think I see what is going on here. Before making any change to the pax or cargo loading, note the CG displayed on the chart and the CG text and trim readout.  
 

Now, change passenger or cargo weights and just by the act of changing them, the green CG on the chart and and the text trim setting will change. Note the new values. 
 

The first time you press “send to simulator”, the new load does get sent to the aircraft, but the trim text and green CG dot on the chart pop back to their original values. The second time you press the “Send” button the aircraft weight is not updated, but the trim text and green dot move back to the new values.

 

It is some sort of synchronization problem that only affects the chart display and trim text. The actual update does get sent to the aircraft the first time you press “Send”, but it takes a second press to update the chart and trim text to the new load.

 

Until this bug is fixed, my recommendation would be to simply press the “Send” button twice after making any changes to passengers, cargo or fuel.

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@JRBarrett

@Hans Hartmann

 

Okiedokie ... thanks for the test 👍
 

thinking of it ... since the trim text is not adapted ... perhaps that is causing people to take off with incorrect trim settings !!!

 

Perhaps causing the “glued to ground” complaints i have been seeing for example.

 

i think this might be an important bug.

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1 minute ago, Pilot53 said:

The problem is, you never get the weights that you set in the efb.  So you cant "just use the efb", because you will have an underweight aircraft as it does not load enough cargo or pax weight, when you check the TOW in the sim it is always much lower than the EFB value even after you send it to the sim.  Im not sure why this is considered a low priority, its a pretty big issue unless you edit the weights manually. 

 

In my previous post, tried to explain this as clearly as I can, but apparently you do not understand. I will try again.
 

The default MSFS loading menu does not accurately or correctly show the actual aircraft passenger or cargo weight after an update to either value is made in the EFB. The aircraft weight very definitely does change, as evidenced by the aircraft moving up or down when weight is added or removed, but the values in the MSFS load menu do not sync to the change.  
 

As I explained, this is some sort of communications problem between the CRJ and the default load menu that only effects changes to passengers and cargo, but not fuel.
 

The default load menu does “see” passenger and cargo weights in the CRJ aircraft.cfg, but only when the aircraft is initially loaded into the sim. 
 

When you say “you never get the weights that you set in the EFB” you are making the understandable (but incorrect) assumption that the MSFS load menu is the “ultimate truth” as to what the actual aircraft weight is, and it is not.

 

I do not know if the lack of synchronization is a problem on the MSFS side, or the CRJ side. If it is on the MSFS side, it will require a future update to the core sim to fix. If it is on the CRJ side, it will be up to Aerosoft to fix.
 

The reason I said it is not “high priority” is because the aircraft was designed to be loaded using the EFB menu, and only the EFB menu. It was never intended to be used with the default MSFS loading menu.

 

Even if weight synchronization worked perfectly, if you change passenger or cargo in the default loading menu, it will not be distributed correctly. The aircraft was designed with a custom layout of payload stations (each with its own contribution to total CG) that is not compatible with the default loading menu. It might correctly change the total aircraft weight, but it won’t put that weight in the right locations fore and aft.

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56 minutes ago, DGH said:

@JRBarrett

@Hans Hartmann

 

Okiedokie ... thanks for the test 👍
 

thinking of it ... since the trim text is not adapted ... perhaps that is causing people to take off with incorrect trim settings !!!

 

Perhaps causing the “glued to ground” complaints i have been seeing for example.

 

i think this might be an important bug.

Perhaps, but the difference is usually only a few tenths of a degree and my experience has been that as long as the trim is reasonably “close” it does not seem to affect rotation or liftoff very much. (Apparently this is also the case in the real aircraft). This is definitely something that will be addressed however.

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38 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

 

In my previous post, tried to explain this as clearly as I can, but apparently you do not understand. I will try again.
 

The default MSFS loading menu does not accurately or correctly show the actual aircraft passenger or cargo weight after an update to either value is made in the EFB. The aircraft weight very definitely does change, as evidenced by the aircraft moving up or down when weight is added or removed, but the values in the MSFS load menu do not sync to the change.  
 

As I explained, this is some sort of communications problem between the CRJ and the default load menu that only effects changes to passengers and cargo, but not fuel.
 

The default load menu does “see” passenger and cargo weights in the CRJ aircraft.cfg, but only when the aircraft is initially loaded into the sim. 
 

When you say “you never get the weights that you set in the EFB” you are making the understandable (but incorrect) assumption that the MSFS load menu is the “ultimate truth” as to what the actual aircraft weight is, and it is not.

 

I do not know if the lack of synchronization is a problem on the MSFS side, or the CRJ side. If it is on the MSFS side, it will require a future update to the core sim to fix. If it is on the CRJ side, it will be up to Aerosoft to fix.
 

The reason I said it is not “high priority” is because the aircraft was designed to be loaded using the EFB menu, and only the EFB menu. It was never intended to be used with the default MSFS loading menu.

 

Even if weight synchronization worked perfectly, if you change passenger or cargo in the default loading menu, it will not be distributed correctly. The aircraft was designed with a custom layout of payload stations (each with its own contribution to total CG) that is not compatible with the default loading menu. It might correctly change the total aircraft weight, but it won’t put that weight in the right locations fore and aft.

oh ok, I get it now.  I was assuming the MSFS manager total weight was correct.  I noticed that the aircraft climbs way too easily so I thought it might have been because the aircraft was getting underloaded but I guess that not the reason.  

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So just to clarify matters, there is no reason for users to synchronize the EFB performance data with that of the simulator. Is that correct?

 

Without wishing to muddy the water, might I ask what would have been the purpose of the button labelled SET PAYLOAD IN SIMULATOR on the EFB screen? Why is it there at all? 

 

Many thanks for the excellent support.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Pilot53 said:

oh ok, I get it now.  I was assuming the MSFS manager total weight was correct.  I noticed that the aircraft climbs way too easily so I thought it might have been because the aircraft was getting underloaded but I guess that not the reason.  

The sim aircraft does seem to have better overall climb performance than the real  thing, (especially at lower altitudes) and this is probably an area that could use more refinement. I think it is more related to engine thrust than weight.

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25 minutes ago, CaptJohn said:

So just to clarify matters, there is no reason for users to synchronize the EFB performance data with that of the simulator. Is that correct?

 

Without wishing to muddy the water, might I ask what would have been the purpose of the button labelled SET PAYLOAD IN SIMULATOR on the EFB screen? Why is it there at all? 

 

Many thanks for the excellent support.

 

 

 

Correct. There is no need to sync the default loading menu with the EFB, and doing so will actually cause problems, since it does not correctly show changes made to passengers or cargo by the EFB, so any changes made in the default menu to try to get it to “match” the EFB will actually cause the weight in both the default menu and the EFB to be wrong.
 

The “Simulator” being referred to on the send button is the weight and balance section of the custom flight model of the CRJ add-on itself, not MSFS.

 

MSFS is sort of the operating system that “hosts” the CRJ, but some parts of the CRJ operate independently.

 

When you make changes to the EFB passengers, cargo or fuel, you will see the effect to the total weight and CG immediately on the loading chart and gross weigh and trim text display, but those changes are not actually loaded into the CRJ flight model until you press the send button. It is kind of like when making flight plan edits on the FMS which are not actually loaded into the Nav system until pressing the EXEC button.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JRBarrett said:

Perhaps, but the difference is usually only a few tenths of a degree and my experience has been that as long as the trim is reasonably “close” it does not seem to affect rotation or liftoff very much. (Apparently this is also the case in the real aircraft). This is definitely something that will be addressed however.

Actually i had an 8.4 trim on the EFB initially. Second press ended 6.2. And that is what i used.

 

now 8.2 is the opposite of “glue” but i supose it can happen the other way around also.

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Ah ha. Obviously some of us got confused by that.

 

BTW, someone might want to rephrase the Aircraft Operating Manual Part 1.  On page 24 of that PDF file near the bottom, there is this sentence:

 

Quote

Set Payload and Fuel sends the weights to FS.

 

Perhaps something like "SET PAYLOAD AND FUEL FOR FLIGHT" might do the trick without having folks looking for confirmation in the MSFS W&B settings. Better still, why doesn't the ENTER button set the corresponding parameter in the a/c? I guess the developers were thinking in terms of the EFB being an independent system from the a/c, but not all of us were able to grock that.

 

Cheers.

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17 minutes ago, CaptJohn said:

Ah ha. Obviously some of us got confused by that.

 

BTW, someone might want to rephrase the Aircraft Operating Manual Part 1.  On page 24 of that PDF file near the bottom, there is this sentence:

 

 

Perhaps something like "SET PAYLOAD AND FUEL FOR FLIGHT" might do the trick without having folks looking for confirmation in the MSFS W&B settings. Better still, why doesn't the ENTER button set the corresponding parameter in the a/c? I guess the developers were thinking in terms of the EFB being an independent system from the a/c, but not all of us were able to grock that.

 

Cheers.

The problem with having changes to the pax cargo or fuel take immediate effect (as they are being edited) is that the the aircraft physically moves up and down on the gear struts when the weight changes, so having immediate updates of those values might make the the plane start hopping like a nervous rabbit. Plus, although I don’t have insight into the internal programming of the EFB, it may be that there are calculations that have to be performed on the entire revised pax/cargo/fuel loading that might be best be done after the editing is complete (in conjunction with pressing the send button) rather than piecemeal.

 

I will suggest a change to the wording of the send button, though it has been that way since the original CRJ for FSX six years ago. and is sort of what customers are used to.

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6 hours ago, DGH said:

Actually i had an 8.4 trim on the EFB initially. Second press ended 6.2. And that is what i used.

 

now 8.2 is the opposite of “glue” but i supose it can happen the other way around also.

Yeah, a 6.2 vs 8.2 trim setting would be significant enough to cause issues. 
 

For now, I recommend to always press the send button twice, that way the aircraft will have the correct load, and the trim setting displayed in the EFB will be the correct one to use for takeoff.

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