Payload / passenger setting from EFB does not synchronize well went it's sent to the simulator

[Szepy 13]

Hi,

I see this with almost every flight. I set the EFB according to SimBrief plan and trying to send it to the sim but it's a way off. Fuel sync is working, but payload (not only the weight, but also CG) is totally different.
Like when I add weight to the AFT cargo room to try reach the planned payload with flyable CG and I sync it to the sim it's simply not added to the AFT cargo space to the sim. Or if added, only partially, like I add 1500lbs and it registers only 800 or so. Even the weight parameters counted on EFB change after syncing it to the sim. It changes the "real" sim weights a "bit" but not perfectly and sometimes the result is a total inproper CG and total incorrect  Speeds calculated by EFB too. AC behaves like it's set in the sim, but EFB calculates wrong V-speeds based on different weight (and CG?).
Now I can easily mitigate it by addig the proper payload / distribution by hand before the flight (or in the cockpit) from SIM's weight menu but it'd be fine to have EFB working well too.

It's a really nice plane with only a few mitigable issues right now, keep up the good work! 
 

[Black_rat 5]

I think that MSFS not picking it up if you are looking at the in game weights sheet, try loading in an empty aircraft then add the weight using the EFB, you should see the aircraft sink down as the load is added. That is my experience, it is loaded but MSFS won't change the in game loadsheet.

[Szepy 13]

The reason I've found this was that I had strange balance issues and tried to figure out why it has happened. I'll check this stuff starting from totally empty AC in flight (thanks for the idea!  ) but as I've mentioned it seems to work "partially" just not 100% correct in regards of weight and balance. 

[Black_rat 5]

Some weird stuff happens behind the scenes I think

[Danny Vincken 21]

CG changes (in the EFB) if you send the payload to the sim a second time. Messing with CG settings in msfs caused all kind of problems with AP and other weird things leave that full to the right!

[Szepy 13]

26 minutes ago, Danny Vincken said:

CG changes (in the EFB) if you send the payload to the sim a second time. Messing with CG settings in msfs caused all kind of problems with AP and other weird things leave that full to the right!

I do not touch the CG bar on the MS "loadsheet". My issue is that if I set a payload in EFB it's not synced to the MSFS loadsheet properly, thus the EFB calculated and MS loadsheet calculated CG and weight will differ a lot - and the AC flies according to the MS loadsheet.
But I'll test this out too to send it multiple times to see if that will match.

[shnt 11]

CG is somehow calculated twice in the EFB.

 

For example first time I input data into EFB it calculates trim to value 7.1 and after second click on calculations it changes to 6.3... then which of these 2 values is correct?

 

Also as you said, fuel from simbrief is working allright, but ZFW is different, even default ZFW in EFB is different than the ZFW value from the pdf manuals and it gives different TOW between EFB and FMC

[Szepy 13]

Quick update: 

1. EFB and SIM weight and CG data differs from empty start. EFB shows 749lbs more for Empty Weight (45749lbs vs 45000lbs in sim).
2. Empty CG in EFB is 25,2%, in sim it's 35% - something that was suggested to be left there.
3. You cannot adjust CG to be the same in the EFB and the sim, it'll be always different, ranging from less than 1% to several %s.
4. One click to sync is not enough, depending on what have you done 2 sync click may be needed. Keep in mind that passenger and cargo loads are NOT syncing visible to the sim loadsheet, only fuel!
   1. Adding weight: Passengers&Cargo view seems to be a bit strange like there's no chance of flying with 70 passengers + fuel on board? At first sync click it seems to be somewhat OK according to EFB CG envelope. After a few secs it updates the V-speeds and CG change is also synced to sim loadsheet and a bit of movement shows AC suspension has reacted to the load change. If you click on sync again EFB CG is totally out of envelope and TO Trim has been change too. I'd stick to ONE sync click here.
   2. Adding weight: Zero Fuel Weight view is a bit different, I think it balances a bit, you cannot add only passengers, it also adds cargo balanced more to the AFT cargo space. For this reason I cannot judge which EFB "version" is better but I'd stick to the ONE sync click method here too as it produces more lifelike and sim CG like balanced load.
   3.  Removing weight: Opposite to adding weight it seems to give me good results only after TWO sync clicks. At first syncing the CG is totally forward on EFB where it already jumps back to normal empty position on the sim loadsheet.  Second syncing sets EFB CG look fine, on the base state so I expect TO trim to be also good there. 

Summary: I still don't know what exactly is going on here, what happens after the first and what happens after the second clicks but next time I'll try to fly with these methods - this night I don't have the time unfortunately for proper in flight tests.
First, I'll completely empty the AC from EFB (2 sync clicks after that! ) and then I'll add fuel and payload but syncing with only 1 click. And then check if the set TO trim works well and how the AC behaves manually flown. If any of you may check the stuff I wrote here or do his/her own test that would be appreciated.
I suspect that inproper EFB CG settings (like 2 sync clicks after adding load) resulted in such incorrect TO Trim advisory too which were set and AC started to raise it's nose without any yoke intervention before VR speed has been reached.

[Szepy 13]

Update 2:

 

Tested my theory and did a full "clean" with EFB when powering up (2 sync clicks after that) than a load setting according to SimBrief (1 sync click). The values I got and set (TO trim and V-speeds) seem to be correct now, as well as CG. No uninentional nose lift before rotate speed, nice and stable rotation and AC held the runway heading with minimal intervention and bank angle in long manual climb. Speed and pitch was also held fine, no bumpy nose, etc. Best takeoff I had so far.

It seems this method is working, please test it and leave your feedback!    

[FlyByWire128 42]

I tried your method and agree the trim setting for take off is much better!

 

I will say, the AC was not climbing well above 10,000 ft.  Either this is due to something with the payload setting, or the fact that clouds in MSFS 2020 seem to add drag...

[Szepy 13]

9 hours ago, FlyByWire128 said:

I tried your method and agree the trim setting for take off is much better!

 

I will say, the AC was not climbing well above 10,000 ft.  Either this is due to something with the payload setting, or the fact that clouds in MSFS 2020 seem to add drag...

Thanks for the feedback!

This setting only affects the takeoff trim calculation and the CG, at least the weight seems to be unaffected so climbing performance should not be degraded after takeoff. I'm not a CRJ pilot so I cannot judge how realistic the performance is with this mod, it's not an A320 for sure. Also take into account that de-icing also affects performance. I've not noticed extra drag in the cloud but I'll check that!

[FlyByWire128 42]

To follow up, here is what I did:

1. Set aircraft to "Cold & Dark" state using EFB.
2. Remove all passengers, cargo, and fuel using the EFB arrow keys.  Press "Set in Simulator" twice (2 clicks).
3. Add fuel (per SimBrief FP), passengers (per SimBrief FP), and cargo (to match ZFW in simulator w/ SimBrief FP).  Press "Set in Simulator" once (1 click).

This seems to update the trim calculation AND set the ZFW/fuel correctly.

[Szepy 13]

28 minutes ago, FlyByWire128 said:

To follow up, here is what I did:

1. Set aircraft to "Cold & Dark" state using EFB.
2. Remove all passengers, cargo, and fuel using the EFB arrow keys.  Press "Set in Simulator" twice (2 clicks).
3. Add fuel (per SimBrief FP), passengers (per SimBrief FP), and cargo (to match ZFW in simulator w/ SimBrief FP).  Press "Set in Simulator" once (1 click).

This seems to update the trim calculation AND set the ZFW/fuel correctly.

Thanks!

That's exactly how I do too and it seems to be consistently much better than before.

[GordonGreig 5]

There is a similar thread here on this topic: 

 

[Szepy 13]

4 minutes ago, GordonGreig said:

There is a similar thread here on this topic: 

 

Thank you!
I've looked for EFB related topics before I started this but have not found it. Linking topics together would be a good feature in this case.

 

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Also check version 1.0.0.1.

[Szepy 13]

1 minute ago, Mathijs Kok said:

Also check version 1.0.0.1.

Thank you, I've just seen the new version is out, I'll check that too!

 

[Szepy 13]

2 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

Also check version 1.0.0.1.

Quick check: Improvement is in place since now - after adding payload - both 1st / 2nd click calculates proper T/O TRIM settings (at takeoff plane seems to be balanced with either settings) but why CG is changing and which is the proper value, the first or the second result? Which one should we use to get the best results?
Also when I'm removing all the payload 2 clicks seem to be needed for proper CG (at OEW CG should be around 30%m isn't it?) the first click seems to be totally off.