Unable to climb?

[Acegard 2]

Just took off in the CRJ700 for the first time. Climbing out of KGJT, the aircraft would not climb properly at all. Indicated speed was around 200 Kts, but it only maintained a nose-up attitude of about 15 degrees and climbing extremely slowly, on the order of like 200FPM. I tried everything I thought of to get out of this situation: thrust lever position, flaps, spoilers, elevator trim, etc. But to no avail. According to the EFB my CG was 18.1% - I didn't mess around with the loads heels in any way, just transferred them to the FMS and off we go. I am using Modern flight model. Even when the aircraft was "clean" (flaps retracted, spoilers retracted, gear up) and at max power if I dropped the nose below 10 degrees it would plummet. I was not flying in icing conditions, to my knowledge, and did not observe any icing. Wind was calm. 

 

I've tried the obvious things, but I feel like I I probably missing something in the way I configured the aircraft - so help would be appreciated! Thank you! 

[Keirtt 5]

Running into the same issue. Chewwy ran into the same issue as well on his stream today. Looks like an issue with the weights of the aircraft even when set properly?

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

And you are 100% sure loading and trim was okay? It is very easy to overload the CRJ

 

Have you tried the tutorial?

[metzgergva 210]

This looks like icing effects or totally overloaded aircraft. Please check the EFB and load the default load into the aircraft. Also check in the weight UI that the values correspond to the EFB. AND, very important that the CoG slider on top is in the max right position at 35%.

You can thenset the V-speeds from the EFB into the PFD and you should be climbing out with 160-180 knots on flaps 8 position with a trim indicated on the EFB.

To avoid the the totally over exaggerated icing effects, just turn them off in the settings.

[Acegard 2]

Hmm. I just attempted two more flights and they were fine - absolutely flawless. Which leads me to believe it might have been icing or bugged out weight & balance. Is the icing visually modeled on the CRJ when it occurs? Additionally, it was about 10 degrees C OAT in the first flight, and dry, so icing conditions should not have been present. 

 

It is interesting though because I did have anti-ice on in the first flight, as well as these subsequent flights. I also did not modify the default load that the aircraft loads with. I am not sure if the CoG slider was 35% in my initial flight but it was definitely 35% in  both of these subsequent flights, and that is the value it appears to load in with. On the first flight I did not reconcile the EFB with the sim UI, but on the subsequent flights they appeared to match - and again, I did not change anything about the default value loaded in when I started cold & dark. 

[geoffda 27]

I keep running into this issue as well while doing the tutorial. Only one out of three flights that I attempted today have I been able to climb as expected. AFIK, I didn't do anything differently on that flight. The aircraft is certainly behaving as if it is overloaded, but I've entered 62 pax, 368kg fwd cargo, 370kg aft cargo, 2820kg fuel. I did click the set the payload in the simulator button. Nothing is hanging out, anti ice is on. I've attached a picture of my efb and well as what my cockpit setup looks like at the moment. I've also attached the in-sim weight and balance page and my perf settings in the FMS. If somebody could help me figure out what I'm doing wrong I'd appreciate it. I've been trying to get up to speed flying the tutorial (and I've watched The Dude's series multiple times and taken notes), but this behavior has really got me scratching my head. The boxed status messages are just seatbelts and no smoking. Throttles are set to climb, but advancing to TOGA or MAX doesn't seem to do much.

 

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[geoffda 27]

I just did a quick and dirty test, starting in taxi config on runway 06 at EDLP  and I'm currently climbing like a rocket. Same pictures attached except I set the perf init in the FMS immediately to save one picture. As you can see, I'm climbing at almost 2,000 FPM at 290 KIAS with climb power above FL180. From what I can tell weight and balance is essentially the same in both the non-climb and climb case. The one interesting thing is that the green dot has moved out of the performance graph in the climb case--though on the ground it looked exactly like the perf graph in the picture from the non-climb case. Oddly enough, I'm actually heavier (according to the in-sim weight and balance page) in the climb case. That may be due to being farther into to the flight in the non-climb case when I took the pictures, so I had burned through more fuel.  In any case, I don't get it. Going up at 3,700FPM and 290 KIAS with climb power passing through 10,000 feet. For good measure I've attached a picture of the CRJ bombing along at 300 KIAS pitch level at FL 180. The latter picture is from another quick test that also worked. I'm starting to think there might be a bug lurking somewhere here--though I would be much happier if somebody could point to some obvious user error on my part. The one bright spot in all of this is that the repetition involved in setting up the aircraft over and over has been a good learning experience.

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[geoffda 27]

Something is just not right with the CRJ 700. In my latest attempt, climb to FL180 worked well. Cruise was fine, started the descent with VNAV guidance. Everything was fine until right before 5000 when I had to pause the sim (using ESC). When I un-paused, I was back to the buggy behavior. Suddenly, I couldn't go faster than 210 KIAS, the aircraft was pitched up just to hold altitude with full climb thrust. I tried to continue on to landing but the aircraft kept dropping when I pulled back some power and I couldn't get stabilized. Went around OK, but when I tried to go direct to a waypoint to start the approach again, the sim hung. The hanging problem has now happened twice when using the FMS.

[rafgath73 3]

Check if you have anti ice on. I had the same problem on my last flight. Turning off Anti-Ice helped, and the plane began to climb as it should.

[FlyByWire128 42]

50 minutes ago, geoffda said:

Something is just not right with the CRJ 700. In my latest attempt, climb to FL180 worked well. Cruise was fine, started the descent with VNAV guidance. Everything was fine until right before 5000 when I had to pause the sim (using ESC). When I un-paused, I was back to the buggy behavior. Suddenly, I couldn't go faster than 210 KIAS, the aircraft was pitched up just to hold altitude with full climb thrust. I tried to continue on to landing but the aircraft kept dropping when I pulled back some power and I couldn't get stabilized. Went around OK, but when I tried to go direct to a waypoint to start the approach again, the sim hung. The hanging problem has now happened twice when using the FMS.

 

Pausing using "Esc" apparently can cause problems because some of the systems don't actually pause (@Hans Hartmann is investigating).  You can bind a key to "pause/unpause" or use the Dev Mode pause in the interim (I believe).  I can't confirm that caused your problem, but it's a known issue...

[Hans Hartmann 3694]

Yes, and there are first results of my investigation. There simply is no "Paused" event when I hit ESC. That's why everything keeps running. If there was a "Paused" event, all the systems would stop. I'm trying to find out why this happens. The Devmode Pause works correctly.

[geoffda 27]

29 minutes ago, rafgath73 said:

Check if you have anti ice on. I had the same problem on my last flight. Turning off Anti-Ice helped, and the plane began to climb as it should.

Thanks for the reply. Anti-ice on shouldn't have a significant effect on climb performance. In cases where the aircraft has climbed properly, I have had it both on and off, so I don't think that is it.

[Hans Hartmann 3694]

Anti-ice shouldn't have any effect on climb performance (but it will mess a lot with descents). Anyway, I will check this (tomorrow - it's getting late here) and see if I may be mixed up the on and off positions.

[FlyByWire128 42]

38 minutes ago, Hans Hartmann said:

Anti-ice shouldn't have any effect on climb performance (but it will mess a lot with descents). Anyway, I will check this (tomorrow - it's getting late here) and see if I may be mixed up the on and off positions.

 

Is the loss of thrust due to anti-ice bleed air modeled?  If so, it would impact climb performance, no?  Not sure why that would cause the behavior as described, but I'm not familiar enough with the MSFS aero code or any ehancements/work-arounds you had to make.

[Hans Hartmann 3694]

Just now, FlyByWire128 said:

 

Is the loss of thrust due to anti-ice bleed air modeled?  If so, it would impact climb performance, no?  Not sure why that would cause the behavior as described, but I'm not familiar enough with the MSFS aero code or any ehancements/work-arounds you had to make.

It's not in our model. But it's very well possible that it's a feature of MSFS itself. As you know, the icing simulation is more on the heavy side. May be the thrust loss is too. I will try to find out tomorrow.

[geoffda 27]

I might have an inkling on the cause of the not being able to climb. I won't have a chance to test it until later this afternoon (Colorado, USA time), but I think this might be caused by not setting the trim ahead of take-off. Mathijs mentioned the aircraft being out of trim earlier, but I didn't consider it because the trim looked reasonable at the time I was encountering the problem. However, in the tutorial weight and balance, if you forget to set it before take off, the aircraft will be nose-heavy when the autopilot is engaged. I'm wondering if the autopilot overcorrects and in the dynamics of the simulator we end up stuck in what almost seems like a semi-stall. Anyway, in thinking about this, it is plausible that I missed the trim. The last time I encountered this issue, I can remember asking myself on takeoff roll if I remembered to check  for Takeoff Config Ok in the ECAM and before I could come up with an answer I was at Vr, but with full back elevator the aircraft wouldn't pitch up. I remember looking down to confirm the pitch disconnect was stowed and then I finally had pitch authority. So I'm pretty sure I forgot to set the trim, which means I didn't see Takeoff Config Ok. Anyway, I'll test and report back this afternoon. 

[TRYstang 14]

Ran into this issue on my 3rd flight and can't think I did anything differently. In max power I can climb at about 500 ft a min only. Tried icing and various things but no dice. 

[metzgergva 210]

We have four reasons for not flying right:

1. Using LEGACY versus MODERN flight model => chnage to MODERN

2. Weather with icing condition which in MSFS is only putting way too much weight onto the aircraft =>switch to ICING only VISUAL effect

3. Incorrect loading from EFB to Sim - sometimes a double click helps

4. The Cog slider is fulle to the left => put it fully to the RIGHT (35%)

[TRYstang 14]

41 minutes ago, metzgergva said:

We have four reasons for not flying right:

1. Using LEGACY versus MODERN flight model => chnage to MODERN

2. Weather with icing condition which in MSFS is only putting way too much weight onto the aircraft =>switch to ICING only VISUAL effect

3. Incorrect loading from EFB to Sim - sometimes a double click helps

4. The Cog slider is fulle to the left => put it fully to the RIGHT (35%)

Checked all 4 of these before posting on the forums

[geoffda 27]

Well, I tested my out of trim hypothesis, but that wasn't the cause of the problem. Even with trim let alone, I'm currently climbing without issue. I encountered some icing on the climb and flipped anti-ice and still continued to climb without issue. If I encounter the problem again, I'll try switching to icing as a visual effect only just to rule out that, but I doubt that is the issue given that switching the anti-ice has never resolved the problem. I suspect that there is a bug lurking here where something puts the aircraft in a bad aerodynamic state. As my pictures demonstrate above, none of the four reasons posted apply (though you will have to trust me that my flight mode has never been legacy). If I find out anything more, I'll post back but the last few flights have gone without incident.

[Acegard 2]

Attempted two takeoffs today, and the issue is back. Both times attempting to climb out of KDEN 16L. First flight, I left everything default load wise. Second flight, I set the W&B manually with the EFB to the values that my VA loadsheet gave me. Everything looked correct. Both times I verified that the MSFS CG was all the way over - 35%. Both times I double-clicked the button to load the values from EFB to Sim to make sure. Trim was set to the EFB's recommendation. I am using Modern flight model for sure. Conditions were such that icing could occur - but anti-ice was ON for both engines and wing. https://youtu.be/5nMXSUUYFg8 Here is a link to a video of the issue. Interestingly, note 2 other things: Airspeed was not alive in the external view, and the FMS skipped one of my waypoints (BOGEI) and instead went direct STAKR without my input. 

Both times, the issue occurred: I ended up flying in a ridiculously nose-high attitude. I was able to climb about 1000 FPM, but with 20 degrees pitch, TOGA thrust, and a headwind I should be able to achieve higher performance than that lol. 

 

I feel like the most likely issue is aggressive icing, invisible visually, that affects the aircraft even when the Anti-Ice systems are on. Tomorrow I will try the same departure with visual-only ice, but tonight it is late and I am honestly sick of it lol. I am hoping that by the video you can see something obvious that I did wrong, because I otherwise LOVE this aircraft and would absolutely hate for it to have hidden, game-breaking bugs that trigger, for example, when I am trying to fly on VATSIM. 

 

Something else interesting that I encountered on another flight today, possibly related: At one point the aircraft would not climb properly by the autopilot at ALL. Set climb SPD 290 KTS and it pitched up violently, targeting around a 5000FPM rate (!). I then tried Vspeed, and that did not take - I would set VS to something reasonable (like 2000fpm), engage VS, and... nothing. Maybe a maximum of about 400 FPM. I know I was accelerating properly as in level flight the aircraft would quickly exceed 300Kts and overspeed at this point while VS mode failed to engage. I have attached a picture of the VS issue.

 

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[metzgergva 210]

In cases of AP stopped working properly just switch it off and also the FD. Make sure no mode has lights next to the button. Then FD on AP on and your desired mode back on.

[chili 8]

I've had the same problem in most of the flights I've tried with the CRJ.  Even with the same load and distribution, it seemed to kick in at different altitudes.

[nettoon 2]

For me none of the 4 Countermeasures worked. Flightmodel is Modern, Icing Off, and I hit the transfer to sim button multiple times. 
 In all flights, there is no chance to get over FL340.

See screenshot. But form my point of view everything looks normal. 

 

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[dihedral 7]

I'm not saying weight & balance aren't the problem here but I have also had this happen (can't climb). I was just on the 2nd flight and climbing through 7k when she flattened out the VS. I checked gear, flaps, spoilers - all ok and stowed. But I remembered a post regarding using only the default key assignment for spoiler as there is a possible bug with hardware and even mouse operation. Well, I recycled the spoilers using the "/" key (even though they were visably stowed in the external view and the lever showed down in the cockpit) and bingo, she started climbing as she should. A one off? Dunno, but give it shot next time and use the "/" key going forwards.